Miffymog

I've only learnt from books, so I've gone through every book there is and tried to pull out the best suggestions out of all of them. In the end, as Zork says, it's pretty much all contained in Lam Kam Chuen's '"the book of energy". So, I always rotate my knees, hips and shoulders first - started off doing 10 rotations each way, now do 30. Don't stand with my hands on my LDT to start with, (but do that after). Go straight into wuji / cowbow style. Cycle through 4 other poses. Then end with my legs straight and hands on my LDT, this is something Lam Kam suggests. Then shake. Then arm swing. Then full body massage. I wouldn't worry too much about the thumb going numb. I badly broke my wrist a while back, for some time after it would have a strong sense of pins and needles in it while I stood. That's died away now, not sure how many weeks or months it took, but its gone and I reckon your thumb numbness will do in time too. I'd just add that for me, the key to maintaining motivation is to keep the duration short, it will naturally increase in time.

Two men were trying to run away from a lion. While doing so one turned to the other and said - why are you trying to out run this lion, you can't out run a lion. The other replied - I don't need to out run the lion, I just need to out run you.

I like Lam Kam's book, 'The Way of Energy', been using it on and off for 20 years now and still happy with it. It describes a fairly simple standing practice which I have found works for me, the only addition I'd make is that you don't need to increase up to a 20 minute stand quite as quickly as he suggests. Good luck on your journey.

I use Tarot cards myself

20 years ago I had a choice between Lam Kam and Mantak Chai. I went with Lam Kam and still follow his teachings to this day. When I read some of Damo’s books I felt a real pang of regret that this stuff wasn’t around when I started out. There are bits I don’t completely like about his stuff, in that there’s a slight ‘carrot dangling’ nature to it, so much so I had to sell his books after I’d read them … But he gives a good all round approach to nei gong and his explanation of the development of the qi gong body is beyond any other western texts I’ve come across.

Yes, yes, yes. It's clearly an attempt to try to explain some concepts that just don't really convert directly into English that well (it might be that some of these terms have better correlations in Chinese for example), and the COG is simply the easiest concept that a student can relate to. Once you've got the hang of the techniques and 'felt it', there's no detraction from the practice by the slight misnomer either. There is actually a physical definition that might be closer to what he's looking for, which is the center of the moment of inertia of a rigid rotating body about one end. If you go to push someone over, you naturally push them at chest level, and this is because if you model the human body like a thick plank of wood rotating at it's base that you want to tip over, you push through this center. If you want to walk forwards for example, the first thing you do is start falling forwards, the way you do this is create a line of force from the back of your heel up to and through this center in your chest (kind of). And if you then lower your weight by bending your knees, this center is then lowered and makes it easier to move forwards. Now this center of rotational inertia becomes so central to our movements, it can get easy to mistake it for our actual center of mass. --- Disclaimer - I've just spent the last 20 minutes checking the validity of what I've just said and, sadly, I've been unable to confirm what I've just said with any calculations. Instead it's all been done from the memory of the Physics I did 25 years ago. I think its right, I don't know it

AAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! Thank god this is a Daoism forum and not a Physics forum. I'm trying to find some co-relation between my lack of understanding of the spiritual path followed by the likes of yourself and Damo, and the 'fast-and-lose' interpretation you take to where the center of gravity might be what might affect it! edit-not in the chest

I can add some basics mistakes he makes in his books, I've made this point in another post a while ago, but I can make it again. He says that you need to sink a little bit into the wuji posture (whose naming has already questioned by Star Jumper). He claims in his book he knows the real reason for this and that other teachers don't (he does actually say this in the book). He claims you need to sink down a little bit into the wuji posture so that your center of gravity which starts in your chest can lower itself down into the LDT - (see attached picture). Now the only way I can really describe the basic misunderstanding of the term center of gravity is by asking you to picture trying to balance your rigid body on something like a rolled up yoga mat. You'd find your COG is already very near the LDT. (How a simple misunderstanding of a fairly basic level of physics got into print is beyond me and does suggest that a few too many people around him don't' really question him enough) Anyway - he did kind of show off about this special knowledge and has kind of got it wrong. If he shows a lack of understanding on things I do have familiarity with - then I can at least have a degree of trepidation when he discusses things I don't know about. I'm afraid the conclusion I can make is that he sometimes has a slightly simplified interpretation of some of the things he's learnt.

God damn it! I love reading these ideas, which is why I enjoyed reading Damo's books, because they described many of these Eastern thoughts - but I just cant bring myself to believe in them I'm afraid. There are some mathematical concepts about the possibility of time travel. But there's an argument that the only universe is the one that is currently unfolding in this moment, along with all the energy contained in matter, both in movement and substance. So you can't travel to another one, as where would the energy for that one come from? This is all kind of theoretical, but I'm definitely of the idea that time travel isn't possible, due to the above reason. I then extend this concept to jing, qi and shen. I've heard the idea that energy of a higher vibration exists, and only when it reduces its vibration does it then become solid. My only problem with this is I find it tricky to conceive of all this higher vibrational energy that has the potential to turn into physical energy, just sitting there in this state, just beyond reach. How much of it is there? How can it exist with out having any significant impact on our reality? Is it that most of it has already condensed? Or is there just not much left in this higher state? Fortunately, I don't need to worry about it too much. I reflect on that which impacts on my life and don't worry about things I can nether conceive nor experience. But maybe one day I'll get a feel of it ...

Yep - the basic example of the genetic memory of how birds know how to build their nests means that we are far more than just a blank/empty sheet when we are born. It's like the inherited fear of spiders, really quite a beneficial trait, but how do on earth do you impregnate the image of a spider on an unborn consciousness - there are many things we really don't understand.

Does Damo include in his books putting your awareness in the LDT? check. Does Damo include the hand moving practice of 'compressing the pear at the LDT'? check. Does Damo include a description of a co-ordinated breathing practice involving the diaphragm, abdominal muscles and lower floor pelvic muscles in order to activate the LDT? check. Is freeform going to find some way out of directly criticising Damo's teaching? check.

But what of the person's personality that has otherwise been taken over. Now, I'm quite certain this innocent preformed personality is first asked about whether they are happy for someone else to reincarnate into them and give them their memories and personality fragments. I'm sure both parties get to sit down and have a chat about the in's and out's / pros and cons / benefits and otherwise of such a procedure in a nice outer dimensional coffee shop. The person who's life is about be taken over is, I'm sure, told about how they are actually really privileged to be selected for such a thing and that they don't really need their own personality anyway when they get to have someone else's. I know this happens not only from all the reincarnated people I personally know, but from my own experiences. YES - I was lucky enough to be selected as a reincarnated person. The problem is I now realise that that bloke was a bit of a knob - and I really don't like him. God damn it! (sorry - I do know that there are many people who do believe in reincarnation, it's just something I have a moral problem with)

This is what Lam Kam calls his first position - I take it it's the equivalent to his system's wuji posture

Here we go

(Sorry to selectively quote of the post) I have some really mixed feelings on Damo. Some of the stuff he says I love, but some of it I really question. I have found the above statement to be quite correct. I've had a casual ZZ practice for some time which I really quite like doing. After reading one of Damo's books, I then tried out his Wuji posture, and its effects were completely different to the Lam Kam stand I had previously been doing. While doing ZZ in Lam Kam's style, I have an uncontrived mind, sometimes I let my mind wonder, sometimes I have a bright present mind, sometimes the mind settles into silence. Whatever. But Damo's stance had a very powerful effect. It kind of sends the energy downwards, which has quite a silencing effect on the mind. Which of course settles down the emotions and allows for better integration of mind and body. The problem I had with this was that it was becoming so effective I was starting to find myself looking forwards to this state as an escape from the stresses of everyday life. I felt I did not like where this was going so I simply dropped the practice and went back to my normal stand. The point here is that some of the stuff he writes about is quite powerful and, without balance, can be potentially dangerous. He likes to state he's trying to re-educate people after years of erroneous teaching by the likes of Mantak Chai. But, inadvertently, he's in someways committing exactly the same crimes he's trying to correct. He is broadcasting to the world stuff that has only ever been taught on an individual basis - should be be doing this and what exactly are his motivations ... hmmm ... Now, of course, I have developed a practice from Lam Kam's books and am very happy with it ... But Damo's wuji stance is a powerful, potentially addictive practice. I feel Lam Kam's teaching is done in a far more responsible manner as all altered states of mind are almost actively avoided. Done.

You can gain some achievement with no intentional effort what-so-ever. Simply maintain a degree of celibacy and have some daily standing / sitting / moving practice where you just focus on the practice itself. If you're standing, stand. If you're sitting, sit. If you're moving, move. The LDT will fill itself quite happily without having to worry about any 'flowing of energy', which can be at best pointless and worst counter productive. Maybe the celibacy thing can be dropped in time, but it does help to start with and means you don't have worry about any kind of intention.

It's one of those things that there more you search for it, the more it can elude you. After looking, and failing to achieve it I now take a more roundabout method. First simple way is to add more moving practices to your routine. There is one opinion that you should be moving for at least as much time as you stand. Then if you really start standing for very long duration, you should have even longer moving practises... The other approach is that sung is a consequence of your over all attitude to life itself. The more relaxed approach you take to life, the more sung your stand is. Now, I'm absolutely useless at achieving any kind of sung, but I have found the above approaches increase the relaxation during a stand.

Politics is a highly emotive subject. When you live in a country outside of a particular political debate, you naturally have less of an emotional response. Then you become more capable of seeing 'both sides' of the argument ... Get me on to Brexit and I'd be less of a "bothsider" ...

You are spewing anit-Trump vitriol - how long are you going to continue doing this for?

YES - YES - YES !!! I completely and utterly agree with this statement and believe it to be true. But, talking like this to Rene when she made, in my eyes, a very rational statement of the obvious Was very, very poor.

It's worth going back a bit and reflecting on the fact your democracy gave you a choice of Trump or Clinton ... good / bad ... representative ... of systems and society ... edit HOW ON EARTH IS SO MUCH ANTI-TRUMP RHETORIC ACCEPTABLE accept everything... edit 2 why are these extreme partisan views not banned???

Is there only bad in Trump ?

Yes, Jesus did clear the religious square of dealers and traders, but if that is the main point one takes away from the New Testament, then every other line has been ignored. He reduced the whole bible to two sentences 1 - Love god (with all your heart, soul, body and mind) 2 - And treat others how you would like to be treated. The second point is a universal truth across not just religions, but also humanity. What is more, you do this in the face persecution. You remove your own failings before you try to improve some one else. You persevere with helping those you dislike. There is good are bad in everyone - this fundamental concept has been ignored here - on a spiritual website of all places. It is a simple fact - the majority of threads were not dominated by right wing American politics before the purge.

At the moment I'm learning how to design websites. One of the things I've recently been coming to terms with is how I can suddenly find own ego slipping into what I design and how I design it. It can happen with out my realising it and there's no one to stop it. For example - ooo - I could create this kind of website or that kind of website, wouldn't it be fun. Only to later on realise that the motivations behind it were not sound. I'm afraid this post is a direct criticism of Sean. Yes there are some extreme opinions on this website, but for me, on the whole there is a fairly good balance of opinions and it was fairly well moderated. And there has also been a lot of very good debate around right wing politics. The open sentence of 'are there any other leftist out there' was very, very badly judged and my heart sank deeply down. Starting off with that kind of language petrified me. One of the greatest qualities of the website is the equanimity demonstrated by a huge number of people. Please, please Sean - reflect on not only what you are doing, but how you are going about it.

That's interesting what she says there. I do 30 knee rotations each way just before my stand and so I watched the video carefully. Should I now give them up? Not yet. Firstly, one of the problems she mentioned was that after having done the rotations, the student then damage their knees by twisting it too much in the form. It is therefore an incorrect practice of the form that causes the problem, not the warm up exercise. Secondly, with all of my joint rotations, I can actually feel them become freer by doing the exercise. It has given me something to think about though - and that is I've heard somewhere that if you do knee rotations, you should not take the knees beyond the toes, which maintains a very small circle. I have to admit, I do rotate them just beyond this point. Maybe I'll reduce the size of the circle...