taoguy

So happy for the people who went for it, sounds amazing. I would totally go too if not for the fact that I'm from opposite the globe. Blessings!

Thank you Sifu Terry. It is quite interesting how people see Kuan Yin (Avalokitesvara/Chenrizig) when FP seems to come from Samanthabhadra, the deity of Emei mountain. Is Avalokitesvara the main energy of FP then? I haven't had much of visions of blue light yet, but maybe it's because I tend to somehow accidentally 'shut off' my eye sense, if that makes any sense. When I had an out-of-body experience a year back, I was also 'blind' but fully aware of everything around me in the sense that I could hear celestial music or 'know' that I was somewhere - that makes me wonder if my third-eye is restricted or something. I saw myself flip out of my body, but then it just went all 'blind' after that - or blackness. But for FP, I'm definitely feeling the huge bliss, almost as if I'm bathing in an internal fountain of ecstasy, really feels like I'm having a wonderful bath and soaking in the blissfulness. Doing the FP exercises, I tend to get these jerks in my spine, as if I'm straightening up. I tried Volume Four Long Form again and I was a little confused - just to clarify - is the sequence 90 60 5 50 40 (as in the DVD) or 90 60 5 40 30 (as I saw somewhere on this thread)? I tried to imagine myself relaxing so much that I moved as slow as possible, managed to get my Bending the Bows down to near 5 minutes, and one round of Volume 4 took about 20 minutes. One thing amazing about it was that I felt as if chi was penetrating much more when I moved very slowly. This also happened for the sitting meditations and I tried using the 'om ma ni pad me hum hrih' and it really helped with keep tracking of the number of reps I did.

Hmm... but by implying there is something unreal, you start to think that there is 'something' else that is real apart from the unreal. Rejecting the unreal, you think there is a realm apart from the unreal which is empty. Emptiness however is not real or unreal, it is uncreated, unchanged and undestroyed, and most importantly unconditioned. It becomes a question of whether something is perceived or not perceived - aka the duality of perception and non-perception - but emptiness lies even outside of this arupa (immaterial) domain. A mirror reflects phenomena within it as reflections and at no point has it truly departed or been separate because the reflections are part of the mirror and are not separate from it. They seem separate but the images are all within the mirror itself. The first stage is experiencing there is a mirror and actively cleaning the mirror, thinking phenomena to be the dust particles that obscure its image. But if originally there is no "mirror", how can a dust particle land on it (illusions and delusions) - and what kind of cleaning or rejecting of the 'unreal' will ever lead you to bodhi? I suppose in the end the entire mirror itself is an illusion, just like a 'self' is an illusion - and that the only truth is interconnectedness of all beings as one universal whole.

Before this thread goes way out of hand, let's quote some masters:

The chinese language is heavy on the usage of 'particles' - where they join particles with independent meanings to form new meanings. 炁 = 无 + Fire Above is the old word Taoists used for Qi in Chinese. What this means is "No" + "Fire" - in combination this means "no fire". Nan Huai Jin explained this as 'no desire'. On the other hand, as culture evolved, the word Qi changed into 气. They then added more particles to include within Qi. For example: 氣 (Energy) = 气 + 米 (rice) 氢 （Hydrogen） = 气 + 𢀖 (add, etc...) Also, words began to be pieced together with other words to include them within Qi. For example, oxygen is 'nourishing qi', air is 'space qi', anger is 'rising qi', etc. So yeah, I think the word Qi is a reverse label. It's more of an 'idea' in itself to describe an abstract understanding. In the Chinese culture, Yin and Yang are not absolutes like North and South poles. For example, Yin can be a Yang to something else. For example, Warm is cooler than Hot, but Cold is cooler than Warm. In that case, we still say something is yin and the other is yang, as a form of relative comparison. Things exist in dualities and cycles, so that's how the chinese language describes things.

That's brilliant! I've actually been wondering about that. Is manifestation the contraction of 'energy' from an infinitesimal source? Thus karma being a 'lower frequency' than that of source, while stillness being a far higher frequency to the point where it seems like it is not moving? For example, I notice things happen either as appearance or non-appearance, but these two polarities still lie within the function of mere witnessing. The function of illumination gives them the 'form' but yet the form itself is an apparition and empty of self.

Thanks I'll keep doing the Long Form for now first then! I realized that when I did the Long-Form, it was really intense and powerful as compared to the previous meditations. Very rejuvenating. It really is very cooling. I can't remember where I read it off a post in this thread, but did someone or Sifu Terry mention that the energy we receive in FP is linked to a certain bodhisattva? (other than Samathabhadra) ---- Second question (I apologise for so many questions): When doing Long-Form, do you end one rep of the long-form with 3 breaths then restart with the breathing formula and another rep? Or do you just continue from the last step of the long-form and do the next rep? --- Third question: I realized there was a mention of going through the four jhanas in FP qigong. I am wondering if the fruit that indicates successful fourth jhana is included in this - which is clairaudience, clairvoyance, knowing of rebirth of beings, and the mind-made body to project into various worlds like the Brahma worlds and beyond (Source: Samannaphala Sutta DN2 ). -- PS: Upon reading the past history of the thread, I realized that there are many references to Guan Yin or Avalokitesvara. This is very strange, because I remember that I was memorising and chanting the Great Compassion Mantra when I was on Guard Night Duty as a sentry in the Army. I remember chanting it to the point where my entire mind absorbed in it and there was internal light. Also, I chant the Cundi Mother Buddha's dharani (another form of Guan Yin). The internal light from chanting again happened. I just thought this was a strange coincidence. PPS: Also, I once begged Nan Huai Jin and Avalokitesvara in spirit to guide me towards a right and sure path to enlightenment. NHJ's legend is that he once put his hand down onto the earth in Emei Shan (Omei mountain) and asked Samathabhadra for a sign if it was correct for him to make his purpose spreading and reinforcing the Chinese Culture. The recorded witnesses all said it was initially as dark as night, and that the sky suddenly poured down a brilliant light. Nearly all the students who were with him were taken aback. So from this multiple-witness account itself, I am absolutely willing to believe that Samanthabhadra is truly a patron saint of Ehrmei shan, and I do believe that I was guided here. Technically, I was first guided to Spring forest qigong, where I adopted the practice of 'om mani padme hung' and then subsequently was led to flying phoenix by an anonymous online friend whom I cherish very much as a Dharma brother.

I realized the key to the qigong movements is moving as slow as possible. Imo the idea is to slow down the mind as much as possible so that you go into the emptiness while doing the movements. As Master Lin once said before, the third-eye is not really an 'eye'. It is extrasensory perception, so it can be a third-ear, third-touch, whatever else. And it opens up in degrees, so there's no actual 'switch'. It's already open to a small degree to people who regularly practice qigong and slowly open up the more you build the foundation and possibly do the sun/moon/rainbow meditations.

Thanks for the MHP supine trick! It helped a lot. I'd also get into my car (in the carpark) and do a short MHP meditation during short breaks since there isn't any other place in the hospital which is a good place. I have just learnt the Long Form FP and I can feel a very refreshing effect, wow. May I know if I need to learn the other previous meditations for a few months before I do the Long Form? I realized that I learnt the Long Form FP pretty quickly, just that I might have a few slight postural differences, which I'm slowly picking out and correcting by rewatching the videos repeatedly. ---- One thing curious that I've noticed is that I actually feel the effects when doing the forms without even doing the breath percentages!! For example, just practicing the Long Form FP made me feel as if my body was flooded with a lot of cooling energy. I'd also think of doing MHP and suddenly I'd get this wave of cooling energy again. Of course it gets far more intense after doing the meditations with the percentages and all, but thought this was quite weird, given that I didn't do the breath percentages while learning but still got the effect. I noticed that when I was warming up by practicing the moves without the breath percentages, I had these effects. I'd add that I always do the 3 breaths before and after without fail. ---- Another thing is that I've realized I can see whitish tinges around people. I'm not sure if that's the aura or just light bouncing off them. The colors appear a little grayish on some people. But I'm not sure if it's just complementary color to the clothes they are wearing or the colours of the walls. ---- I'd add too that I've been doing Spring Forest Qigong for nearly a year before trying FP. The effects are slightly different but FP seems to have a very lasting effect. Both appear to have some kind of 'top-down bliss', if that makes sense.

I wouldn't say it's completely false, more of the primary step. I believe concentration practices to be the first step, just that they should not be focused on as the ultimate practice (which is Hinayana practice). In my perspective, I feel like concentration is essential to shake-off drowsiness and torpor, so that the mind starts to settle without agitation. For example, if we do too much emptiness meditation, sometimes the mind goes into a state of scattered-ness or oblivion like in sleep, ending up in cultivation of samadhi of oblivion like mindless animals. We also focus on the calming of agitations, particularly body (as Bhante V says in his Relax step). I believe Nan Huai Jin also says the loosening of the body in the White Skeleton Visualisation or Foulness Visualisation is along with the visualisation of the bones. Therefore we can equate this to relaxation (calming tensed up muscles and organs) along with concentration on object. Once we reach the state of stillness within like 5-10 minutes without any thoughts spontaneously rising that much, we move towards non-object meditation or spatial meditation, such as an abstract idea like space or metta or cessation of breath or gaps between mantra words. In White Skeleton, this is known as the 'scattering into space' or 'abandoning the internal organs to become a hollow shell'. Eventually we become one with the functioning of "space" itself (Mahayana meditation) - where the stream of object or non-object becomes the actual meditation object. Sound and silence - light and dark - motion and stillness - form and emptiness - awake and asleep -are perceived as one-taste. In White Skeleton this is merging with the universe itself. One thing worth noting is that Zen master Nan Huai Jin teaches that you can literally see internal light when doing the visualisations to a high level. This also corresponds to the idea of nimitta found in other buddhist literature, or the Taoist idea of 'original cavity light' or shen as light itself. This happens during the concentration period. My guess is that if someone has not much base in the concentration part, then doing the 6Rs in Bhante V meditation can be cyclical or going in circles because they haven't developed enough "staying power" in samadhi (mastery of samadhi includes entering, staying, leaving at will). In Tian-tai breath-meditation, this is known as the step of 'counting' or 'following'. Of course this then leads on to the other steps like 'shamatha/cessation' and so on. Tldr: 1. Concentration on distinct object (four elements like wind, earth, fire, water) 2. Steadiness in abstract object (like space or voidness) - Comes with light as well since the four elements glow as auras. [IMO, this is the elder monk's gatha on polishing the mirror to keep it clean.] 3. Unified with distinctness and abstractness, taking the entire stream as the object (established within consciousness itself) [IMO, this is the stage of Hui-Neng where he says there is no mirror to clean and mind is naturally clean and pure. Possibly the stage of Zen, Dzogchen and Mahamudra as well... maybe.] Just disclaiming all of this is pieced together by my own perspective, so take it as a grain of salt. Would be great to have verification though.

I can't remember where I read it but he predicted that he'd live to over a 100 years old, and predicted an exact date. Not sure where I read it so if anyone has the link it'll be great.

I realized from reading the thread that something important for FP is good levels of sleep and food. I'm currently a training doctor who has to sometimes go on few hours of sleep and little food when I go through hospital rounds. When I get back from hospital I'm usually drained of energy and can easily fall into a nap. Besides, I need to spend lots of time post-hospital studying and handling other personal stuff. I find it difficult to devote 1 hour to FP meditation - if I could only devote 35 minutes to FP on my weekdays, what would be the best exercises to do? Also, would FP be useless if I couldn't catch that much sleep?

Hi pitisukha, this might be slightly offtopic for flying phoenix qigong but look up the usnisa vijaya dharani and continuously chant it, even better if he himself chants it.

Curious, because I wish to seek advice about meditation... By Jhana, I mean the Mahayana-sutra-defined Jhana, hard jhanas, not the soft-jhana or vippasana-style jhanas defined by new-age buddhism that do not adhere to the sutra's definitions. I mean: Firstly raising kundalini to open the 8 extraordinary channels, front and back, middle, left and right for physical agitations/karmic-formations/fabrications (through jhanas 1 and 2) Then entering dark night through mental agitations/karmic-formations/fabrications (through jhanas 3 and 4). Anyone? Would love some advice on how to get there.

Dear Sifu Terry, Just adding onto my previous post on the best thing to focus on. I was wondering for the sitting meditations, is it better to remain in half-lotus? Or should we do full-lotus if we are able to sit in that? If so, would right in front of left be better? Thank you, and much appreciated for your teachings.

Can I suggest that you put all of your sentences into one single post because it can be quite difficult to read and reply to.

Because I realized what I thought was 'jhana' was not the authentic jhana described by enlightened masters such as Nan Huai Jin. It must be not only joyful, but literally a state that elevates you to the same living alambana/realm or jing-jie as a rupa-heaven deva, and that is something beyond the human realm itself. Having a bit of joy itself is not jhana. I used to think it was jhana but I was just pitifully ignorant. By inducing highly concentrated states I could go into highly blissful states and joy to the point my body relaxes and I can no longer feel the body. But give it just 2 days and the feeling disappears. When I did this, I was also able to either maintain lucidity in sleep and also a few times managed to 'OBE'. But to be able to sustainably do it at a high level, I need higher vitality, which draws energy from the belly center. Also, there was too much 'brain center' and not enough heart, so I was unable to unify will and aspiration together. But all of these were just 'gong-fu', and gong fu fades when you do not sustain it. It's true about compassion to open up the heart. I only truly understood both the heart and belly centers in their role and I guess they were the missing links to my will-only approach that did bring me into states with a lot of light, visuals, joy/bliss and OBEs.

Yes, it initially started with an intention to hear people's experiences. But it also had a subconscious intention (now that I realize due to Spotless pointing out) that I was also looking for some kind of guidance to advance in jhanas and beyond.

I am not sure if I misinterpreted you, but if I have, do forgive me. Just quoting above what led me towards that interpretation.

I may say all this... but in my practice I do not dwell on them... Once I say them, I've already let go. These are all just 'book knowledge'. But they are still essential, like instruction manuals. Otherwise I would never have reached deeper states. But still I realize the immense value of the jhanas in taking one across the river, so I'm not sure why you would reject jhanas as a necessary bridge to enlightenment.

Haha well, the fore-runner is Right View. Having right view, the middle-path, not attaching to self or no-self, not attaching to speculative views, etc - we enter a state of casting away 'false-thoughts', supplemented by right mindfulness, eventually entering right samadhi. Right intention, speech and action have two modes in my opinion. Firstly, it is unguided by wisdom - for the sake of production of merit (or a cleaner state of mind for easier mindfulness and samadhi). Secondly, after entering samadhi, right intention, speech and action flows outwards naturally as Hui-Neng taught in the Platform Sutra. I'm not too sure about karma itself turning into Bodhi. The Buddha taught in the sutras, saying that the Noble Eightfold Path produces "karma that is neither bright nor dark", eventually leading to liberation. Transformation of karma definitely occurs when changing the current flesh body into the Blessed Body (using reward body chi). But this can only be fully completed after realization of the Dharmakaya. But Bodhi itself is completely separate from karma. It is uncreated, undestroyed, unchanging. To say that it is subject to life and death is equivalent to a self-sentence into the Avici hell after merits burn away - because of the slander of Bodhi nature (Surangama sutra). The view of Dzogchen or Mahamudra is that Bodhi itself has never 'disappeared'. It is ever-present. I'm not sure, but perhaps you meant the transmutation of karmic seeds in the Alaya consciousness to the Tathagata storehouse. Might be a language limitation. I am able to speak chinese if that is better for you.

Hey Drew, This is a bit off topic but I recently watched a video that connected the meaning of 'Crystal Palace' to be the third-ventricle in the brain that contains cerebrospinal-fluid, known to circulate DMT. The Third Ventricle connects both the Pineal and the pituitary gland (by which the "posterior pituitary gland" is an invagination downwards from the third ventricle), like so: I'm thinking that this space in between might just be the crystal palace everyone is talking about. Also, you can see this in the Eye of Ra: Thought you might find it interesting. Also, the CSF travels throughout and bathes the inside of the brain by travelling through the ventricles (reaching even the visual cortex), as well as around the brain and around the entire spinal cord. Look up "Mauro Zappaterra" on youtube. He's Harvard trained and also it corresponds to my understanding of anatomy.

Wrt to your previous post on depression, I indeed experienced depression for a total of 2 to 3 years after accidentally-meditating as a child (without knowing breath meditation at all). I suppose that was the first dark night. Another one I had was an intense energy bolting me out of sleep and I was literally unable to sleep for the rest of the night because of too much vitality, and there were intense visuals as well as past-life Sanskrit/some weird script radiating out, as well as this bird's eye view of nearly a hundred thousand people looking up at me with 'familiar faces'. During the first depression, I became disenchanted with life, stopped watching TV/etc and became unbelievably nihilistic and depressed. I think this is probably what you meant by it? Well, if you insist that the Buddha 'abandoned' jhana as a requirement, then what is your proof? Where in his Dharma, does it say that one does not need jhana? Even the Yogacarabhumi Shastra, which is written by the Bodhisattva Asanga as a message from Maitreya Bodhisattva, talks about the importance of jhanas (or called dhyanas). Christian saints talk about the levels of ecstasy, such as in St Teresa of Avila. These states are also present in various traditions like Kabbalah. They don't say they are goals, but they are certainly milestones. Phenomena that you see on the way in. Some sects use the Bodhisattva Bhumi system instead. But they too have a graduated level, and specialised gong to cultivate blissfulness and transformation of body. Even the Surangama Sutra talks about the different levels of phenomena when tackling the skandhas one by one. Without jhana, it becomes a Sevenfold Path. It's not a Theravada thing - all branches of Buddhism follow the Eightfold Path - whether it's Vajrayana, Theravada, Mahayana or Zen. I do believe that even Dzogchen or Mahamudra practices that are 'purely mind' also have chakra teachings or 'graduated teachings'. They eventually lead through jhanas as well.

Thank you for this. I experienced exactly what you said - awakening in youth but deliberating moving into the illusion of mind to 'engage' with the world, and as a process, getting mingled with it and lost again. Then I rediscovered Buddhism and am trying to move towards the stream once again.

Perhaps it is the way you phrased it, but what I was saying was that jhana is required, not 'unnecessary'. Without jhana, there is no genuine Buddhist enlightenment. You cannot 'skip' to enlightenment unless you are a master emanating as one of the remaining seven lives as a seven-returner, or so on. Zen certainly goes through the four dhyanas as well, true Zen teachers like Nan Huai Jin do not reject jhanas. I agree that there shouldn't be clinging onto jhanas. But you cannot deny that jhanas are required.