thaddeus

Honestly, me neither..and I've been around the block. In fact BP Chan would rap you on the head or scold anyone who ever 'talked chi'. He thought it was load of crap and a sure sign of a BSer. I find most serious martial artists take this view. I'll call it now..anyone talking about all this chi stuff sooner or later is exposed as a manipulator..it's a sure fire way to control someone..purporting you have 'powers'. Regarding the 'chi ball' sensations, anyone can do it, and it really has nothing to do with doing taichi correctly. I would seriously question a taichi teacher that over emphasized that phenomena. But with all that said, I still am guilty of 'talking chi'..it's a seductive topic.. T

there are two 'reply' buttons, if you hit the one under the message (not at the bottom of all the messages) it should copy the text so you can edit it.. T

but you see the problem with this..since it's personal experience, one can not rule out delusion. there has to be some sort of objective results if anyone is to take it seriously.

Problem is what is 'chi'? How does Master Liao 'demonstrate' how chi should 'feel'? Alot of stuff that some people call 'chi', because they don't understand what is going on, is actually body mechanics, conditioning, etc. So I think we should put some context around the examples. Good thread, btw, not trying to poo poo it right off the bat. T

actually i didn't mean for it to be a joke, but i was aware of the irony of the finger comment afterwards..

Hi Freeform, you bring up a lot of interesting ideas in this thread. I'm kinda falling into the 'ask and wait in awareness'. Everything around us is a teacher. Regarding the sacred geometry..I don't know, shapes are interesting..i mean we take shapes in our yoga, standing, and other practices right? So, lots of cool ideas to talk about, don't know where to start..lol One idea I got turned on to however, is this idea of self and how we keep trying to add to it (like our practices) to enforce this idea of self..which is really nothing but a bunch of ideas. So i'm thinking of ways to strip away and to stop looking outwards for things to add to 'me'..not sure if that makes sense or not..it's a process right now.. T

At the end of the day, it's important to be aware if you are 'looking at the moon or the teacher's finger'.

i agree, i wouldn't host it. I'm just saying that people do charge alot and workshop hosts tend to lose money on it. <i just edited out some stuff> T

not weird, just incredulous. if he really had this ability, why he is still futzing around..

Curious why he hasn't been discussed yet. I really like the book so far, a nice surprise.. http://www.amazon.com/Gong-Total-Wellness-...y/dp/0312262337 lots of detail, changing fortune, etc.. T

i'm with cam on this one... How do you think this makes sense? Just curious regarding why this rings true for you.. T

Right on. At least from my own personal musings, I find the 'amoring' is due to lack of core intrinsic strength. To me, if i want to release something, something has to be 'tighten' for lack of a better word. I can't elongate, lengthen and release my body and be *completely* relaxed. From my explorations, what allows me to relax is good clean core strength..a strong pelvic floor helps my body relax in yoga postures and the pumping action centered in the core facilitates proper movement. I believe most people's armoring comes from inherent weakness. To touch on the other aspect, very interesting that arthritis comes only from repeated labor. One of my taichi teachers said that if one practices wrong just a little, then no real harm done. The harm comes from enthusiastic and really hard training done wrong. Also if you only exercise one part of the body to an *extreme* it's very bad (in the TCM point of view--regading the limbs and internal organs,etc.). I tend to believe this from my experiences. Moving the body in straight lines is generally bad because it's not respecting the joints and the body's natural movement. That's the only validity I would give to a circular movement advantage over straight. But as a few of you pointed out, it's a lot more complicated than this and there are other factors such as diet, emotions and such that would completely throw all assumptions out the window. Nice discussion! T

Yeah, I did some googling after my posts and realize there's a long complicated history here that I wasn't aware of...stuff like channeled teachings/beings and what not. I don't expect in this lifetime to understand all this. But I'm in no rush either. Taking a crack at maya one bit at a time..but I'm a bum at heart, I don't really want to join a pack, that's where I am right now.. T

what is his theory about it being unhealthy?

This reminds me awhile back about that other guy who was selling secrets and had a hissy fit that some of us were not worthy and were not welcome to buy his book. Just like a paper martial artist who falls apart once an opponent starts to apply a little pressure, these guys lose balance (temper/patience) or run like the hills at the slightest question. Off the top of my head, these are signs that a path is questionable: 1. divides people into groups of worthy/unworthy, sincere/insincere. 2. uses magic tricks to dupe followers 3. demands absolute obedience 4. requires extreme sacrifices in order to be worthy of the teachings 5. starts to make you feel special above everyone else 6. after the novelty of the tricks wears off you find yourself with nothing 7. the teachers start to make increasing demands that penetrate your personal life and beging to act more and more crazy. 8. the male teachers start sleeping with your wives, girlfriends, neighbors while you become their bitch 9. makes you worship them instead of god..and what is god..hmmm There's a ton more signs from people who study cults and manipulative relationships. This is just what I've seen. I seen thousands of paths like this and in the end the fraud comes out. Personaly, I've rediscovered Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. I think the path is pretty much laid out righ there. It's beautiful. In fact, I think you can see how many disciplines are pretty much saying the same thing. The only sacrifice to be made is practice--and it should be joyful. T

Lol..exactly my point..some concrete details of a technique and where it may lead to...example: I was shown a breathing/relaxation technique by a respected taiji master. Pretty simple to follow instructions and then he went on to explain exactly what I would be feeling if I was doing the exercise correctly. He then showed me how to apply the breathing technique in my form and in my applications. If I described in more detail, that would be some meat. Some meat would be, for example, koichi tohei's ki breathing exercise or any number of the techniques that are discussed here and people try out. Outline the basic beginning practice so we can see what you're talking about. We've been exposed to so many different approaches, it would be amazing if what you're doing is significantly different than anything we've seen. For example, the Patanjali's Yoga Sutra's are a pretty detailed roadmap to these siddhi powers. There are no secrets there. But can anyone get past citta vittri nirodha? I can't get past this first step. But it's all there, laid out. No insincere person has the balls or the guts to follow that path. There shouldn't be any fear of 'the secrets' getting in the wrong hands in that method. So I (we) just want to see your sword..that's all.. I hope i'm not coming off obnoxious, i feel safe speaking like this because I know you understand the frustration first hand, based on your posts. Thanks, T

Hi cloud, first, learn the choreography. I personally only listen to a teacher if they are flexible, exuding youthful vitality. I don't pay any attention to tricks or martial prowress. I've been taking stock of the common denominators of the gems. Unfortunately alot of the training involves concepts that people are shy to talk about. Things like libido, the pelvic floor, sex. Teachers refer to these things indirectly in public, for good reason, and mixed company makes things even more 'mysterious'. But to put it bluntly, i'm finding that doing the form is alot like F**ing. As you train you'll see the wisdom in that statement.. T

i agree. I made a personal committment to figure out what it is about taichi..what is the secret ingredient. Because it is extremely obvious that taichi is not helping most people...but every now and then you meet someone who has a piece of that recipe. T

???

Yeah, I just came to the realization that everything is occuring in my mind. I've heard this before and understood it, but now i really know it. Everything that comes to me, I do not percieve directly, I perceive my 'stuff' that I project onto it. So I'm just seeing and reacting to all my 'stuff' rather than what, if anything, is really out there. So I have to 'stop the world', 'stop thinking', slay the dragon, non attachment, mindfulness, forgiveness, love, it's all ways of saying the same thing. What's left? I'm not really sure yet. T