thaddeus

Interesting ideas! Thanks.. T

Hey Karen, you're right about the treatment strategy..but only for the first 4-6 weeks. The problem arises when or if the anti-inflammatories and physical therapy don't work. Then, I think you want to know what you're dealing with and how extensive it is. Prolotherapy looks interesting. Do you know anything about it? T

hey cloud, did you get an MRI to confirm the inflammation? Could you have a partial tear? Make sure you start physical therapy as soon as possible to build strength back. I think the systemic enzymes hold promise, but don't really know for sure. Good luck. T

i always recommend the CDs over the books.. T

The most important question.. what time is practice? (i think i got that from robert smith's book)

ahh, gotcha..nice exchange.. T

oh, no problem..i did give props to yang style saying it could be looked at as a refinement of chen. T

that's cool, but i don't think you actually read anything I wrote..what am i being closed to? T

None of this stuff really matters. If you believe you will be enlightened by standing on one leg, or pointing a sword finger, or doing anything..guess what..you will. So why not just drop all the practice. All this magnetic flow mumbo jumbo... Placebo effect. Quantum Physics..wherever you look it's there.. Pick a path..there's no point in talking about it anymore.. T

I see where you're coming from. I did practice Yang intensely, different lineages, for a while. I don't think you've been exposed to good chen style based on your observations of chen style. All I'm saying is take a workshop with an established master of chen to see for yourself..i suggested zhu tian cai because he is the most accessible of the top chen stylists. From what I know about Chen Pan Ling, he incorporated alot of chinese boxing in his teaching, so he doesn't count for this.. So, based on your comments, of what value is the form in your training? is it just a choreography or ritual to follow in addition to the solo training? why bother with it? T

yes im aware of that controversy i recommend taking a workshop from an acknowledged chen stylist, someone neutral like say Zhu Tian Cai. Then compare that with what you see Earl or anyone else doing.. It was a real eye opener for me..you don't have to leave your yang practice. some can see Yang style not as watered down but as a refinement or abstraction of Chen. If practiced in that light, it's a decent practice, but I think you need to know the root first. just my opinion. T

why do you believe this? have you been able to study chen style? even the yang family admits yang came from chen. Yang style is missing the fajin, varying tempo, jumps, reverse breath and the twisting of the limbs. T

When you said 'inner body' most of us probably didn't know what you meant. Now I see you are referring mainly to soft tissue etc., which is an area of interest to me. Can you at least say if you are using the breath as a control mechanism or only the intention? Thanks, T

It does if one knows what one is training. That's the million dollar question for these arts and why there are so few really good practitioners, imo.

My thoughts..first, Starjumper..would be interested in knowing who that teacher is. Second, neigung is just a word and it means different things to different people. I read that qigong is a relatively new term popularized in the mid 1900s and before that it was simply referred to as neigung. As buddy pointed out, it's just a word that means internal work. To assign definitions to it and contrast it with qigong is probably not going to be very productive. I would question any system that is bent on drawing distinctions between qigong and neigung. What I look for is results. If I'm practicing a system and it's not helping me feel more youthful, vibrant and successful and the teacher and other practicioners don't seem to be improving in any way, then it's not a good system for me. Faith gets you started, but results are what count. I like a neigung/qigong system that makes sense and leads to results. There should also be an underlying principle that can be articulated simply without alot of mumbo jumbo nonsense. T

i agree..some people are gifted with words and can make things sound really exotic when others would be less flowery and simple worded. T

he was talking about a modified form of mabu taken from chen style taichi..and yes it was a guideline for beginners. xingyi is great art for internal training.. T

ok, i got what you mean. I have been fortunate enough to meet some very good internal teachers. When my posture is corrected, regardless of height/knee angle, the pressure is almost unbearable. 30 minutes is a phenomonal achievement under the watchful eye of a master. The problem is most of us unknowingly cheat when we are by ourselves because correct posture is so hard. One famous chen style teacher suggests that 3 minutes is pretty darn good. I am aware of the other thread on 'disrespect' so I'm not saying this in a bad way, just sharing information. In fact, this thread is inspiring me to commit more to internal training. T

I mean other than the obvious weight placement and arm positions, why do you think mabu is harder than santi? I think santi with the majority of weight on one leg (depending on the nuances of your particular style) is alot harder than mabu. fwiw, no one who ever taught me a standing practice indicated that one should just 'stand there', there's alot of stuff and micromovement going on in all the disciplines I've come across.. T

besides the obvious, what do you think is different between mabu and santi from an internal perspective? Many would argue santi is much harder than mabu. Santi can be brutal. T

oops will write more later.

More likely levitation is probably a *feeling* when one is in an ecstatic state. Over time, it is easy to see how this self reported *feeling* becomes distorted into an actual physical event with witnesses etc. Also experiences in dreaming/lucid dreaming can go through the same distortions over time. If it was possible, we certainly wouldn't be arguing about it, we would just accept it as true. We would all either do it or know someone who can do it. There would be levitation competitions around the globe. Levitation would be exploited by the military...and don't forget the russians lol. It would be helpful to spend some time or watch a documentary on how magicians do their art. T

if i can jump in..don't 'pull back', keep lengthening, pull the chin in and up and your posture should start to release into the right position. the key is that the string pulling visualization is continuous..alot of people stop and stagnate.. T

Thanks for your insights WT. How about the Psoas muscle? What kind of muscle is that? Someone told me that the psoas muscle can not contract like a muscle. This contradicts what some teachers, like mantak chia, talk about in their taoyin program to exercise this muscle. Do you have any experience on that? T

The mobilizer/stabilizer theory has been bandied about alot in some circles, it's not new. The problem with that theory is that it sounds nice, but doesn't really hold up too well (no pun intended) under scrutiny. There are few, if any, pure stabilizer muscles that are holding up the body. Martial artists tend not to be anatomy experts so the various explanations one hears about sinews, blood vessels, etc. should be understood in that context. For example, many people believe the bones are used primarily to transfer forces, that may not be true, they may be more like spacers in the body. The fact that we don't even know how our bodies really work is very interesting. T