vonkrankenhaus

Yes. It is for Everyone. I was adding to the various explanation of how. The first Movement was Yang, and established Stasis - Yin. All Movement is Yang. Movement is Energy. The 10,000 Things all derive from that first Movement. Because that Movement inherently HAS or "exhibits" Polarity, or "YinYang", or "the TaiJi". Polarity means Difference. Difference means Variation, or "Everything". So you are seeing okay. -VonKrankenhaus

The issue is that materialists want to see and count physical things. The only physical thing in that passage is the One. The TaiJi is not a physical thing. YinYang are not physical things. Qi is not a physical thing. The "rock" in my previous example is a stand-in for any one physical manifestation as we see it. As I stated, it could even just be a physical Movement. Any "One" will exhibit YinYang or "Two" - it will exhibit polarity, inherently. And between the poles of those polarities, Movement will happen. Polarity causes Movement = "Two gave birth to Three". All variations of things are produced by that Movement, or "Qi". -VonKrankenhaus

Movement and Stasis are a good example. This is a Polarity. Initially, there is nothing - "WuJi" - "No Polarity". No Thing = No Polarity. Then, "as it so happens" ("Tao"), some Thing ("the One") appears. Let's say that was a Movement that happened to be that "One". The instant the One Movement (Yang) happens, Stasis (Yin) is revealed - the "TaiJi". Without Movement, Stasis is invisible. There would be no way to discern it, no thing to discern it from. Every One HAS Two - has Polarity - an Up/Down, Inside/Outside, etc - or "YinYang". This is the only way "Two" can be made from just "One" and not require Two Things to exist first. Otherwise, if we took this materially, then we expect One object to split into Two Objects or produce Another Object. Try that. Put a rock on a table and see if it "produces" Two rocks. Then see if those Two produce a Third rock. Then see if that One rock HAS an Up/Down, Left/Right, etc. This is some of the YinYang (Polarity) OF the One rock. Polarity requires Two, and IS two aspects OF the One. Movement between these two poles of a Polarity ("YinYang") is "Qi". This is why Qi is also called "Energy". It is Movement. No Polarity = No Movement. This Movement produces all variations of ("10,000") Things - Living/Dead, Bigger/Smaller, Day/Night, Vegetable/Animal, etc. -VonKrankenhaus

Damo Mitchell books are inaccurate about Taoism. Did anyone here ever study Taoism? That's one source of Internal Cultivation, so worth looking at. And "Chang" - is a street-performer guy in a video/film that uses these: https://www.amazon.com/Copernicus-Toys-Human-Powered-Light-Bulb/dp/B001EVK3F6 And stuff like this: https://www.amazon.com/Dikley-Electric-Shocking-Handshake-Novelty/dp/B078NRPD66 And a fire stunt using Yellow Phosphorus and liquid Carbon Disulfide. When the Carbon Disulfide evaporates, the Phosphorus ignites. This trick is common street-performer stuff, as are all the ones in the video/film of "Chang". -VonKrankenhaus

If you want to believe that, I will not dispute it. Go right ahead with that. If you think any Damo Mitchell book is explaining - fine for you. Knowing is a long road. Any place on that road is okay starting place. Even backwards is an okay direction to go. True and False are existing on the same road. If you look for truth, you will eventually find it. If not looking, then that's okay too. -VonKrankenhaus

They do. And just like the masters themselves, these are not recognized by the "public". Without any real experience or mentor or standard from which to discern but for fake videos and comic books - who in the "public" would know even what they would recognize if they saw it? They would judge by their own ideas about motivations and actions too, not ones "invisible" to them. Masters are not hidden. It's just that People cannot recognize them. Like the Truth. The Truth is not hidden or obscure. It's just that People have trouble seeing or recognizing or applying it. -VonKrankenhaus

We wouldn't know. Depending on what polarities you are looking at, you could see any substance involved in the movement. For example, in "electricity" what we see moving is electrons. In "thermodynamics" we see heat moving in fluids, so any of these fluids can be seen moving. There are many many kinds of polarities at work in a human body, only a small subset of which we manipulate in "Qi work". Qigong is just ways to manipulate various simple polarities in the body itself or between body and environment to cause a difference in stuff like hormones, metabolism, bioelectric potentials, etc. But if you believe modern Western comic book ideas about Qi as a kind of mystical "substance", or any physical "substance" - what you are seeing is mainly an illusion, a fiction, an "idea" that isn't and never was real. That idea is just the result of mistranslations by Western academics in the 1800s and early 20th century who never understood Chinese philosophy, and apparently, never wanted anyone else to either. Study Taoism. Study Gongfu training. If you get YinYang wrong or backwards in Gongfu training, unlike in a philosophy discussion - you can know instantly, and never make that mistake again. -VonKrankenhaus

People who are masters show up in public all the time. Nobody is staying home all day, every day. But remember - traditionally, NOBODY calls THEMSELVES "Sifu". Only their students ever do that. -VonKrankenhaus

Nope. There is no "it". That's why no scientists have ever been able to find "it". Here is quote: ""China has, in recent decades, spent an inordinate amount of resources on experiments to determine the existence and nature of Qi. China is easing up on this research for lack of concrete breakthroughs. But the quest to define Qi continues, with there being no breakthroughs that we know of. Whether someone in China or anywhere has the Holy Grail hidden from view I cannot say"" -Xing-Tai Li and Jia Zhao (2012). An Approach to the Nature of Qi in TCM–Qi and Bioenergy, Recent Advances in Theories and Practice of Chinese Medicine, Prof. Haixue Kuang Western scientists find same thing. Because what I am writing is true. Qi is simply any movement between the poles of any polarity in any spectrum of matter or energy. It is not a special substance or physical thing. Neither is Tao, nor YinYang, nor Wu Xing any specific "thing". Western materialist consumer philosophy wants "things" you can "attain". So do modern consumer types, who want also to be "special". Somehow. But that is not understanding Qi at all. -VonKrankenhaus

You would not say this, if you could see it. I write that because it is technically true. Qi is not any specific thing or substance. Qi is movement between poles of any polarity. Movement is from YinYang, or "polarity". The "substance" that may be moving is not the Qi - so all of the substances that move in polarities are different. That is why we can have "fire Qi" and "electric Qi" and many many forms of Qi. But if you didn't study Taoism or even have one Gongfu lesson ever, you would not have studied to know what Qi is or is not. That's why you think you can see "it" - when there is no "it" that can be seen. That's like being in a "Harry Potter" movie made by liars. Arguing about Qi with only that and a fake fire stunt to back you up is a fool's errand -VonKrankenhaus

When carbon disulfide and phosphorus (soak paper in it) combine, the carbon disulfide evaporates while you wave your hand at the paper it is on - then the phosphorus ignites. This is a common fire trick done by street performers all over SE Asia. Qi is not a thing or substance. Qi is movement between the poles of any polarity. That why there are so many kinds of Qi in the Chinese language - it isn't one thing or substance. For example, we say "electric Qi" and this is electrons moving in the +/- polarity. Or we say "heat Qi" and this is heat moving in a hot/cold "thermodynamic" polarity. Body has many polarities and functions happening in polarities, same way. No one different substance. -VonKrankenhaus

"JC" meaning "John Chang" or "Dynamo Jack" in the fake street-performer video with the low-watt LED, "electric man" toy, and the carbon disulfide/phosphorus fire trick? Any traditional Gongfu school would be a better and more sensible place to start. Any at all. -VonKrankenhaus

That isn't about Internal Cultivation. That stuff is just about ideas. You'd have worked through that kind of thing in any basic Gongfu trainings - ideas about what you thought you are vs what you really are, etc, etc. Did you ever do any kind of traditional training with an established teacher who studied Internal Cultivation? If so - what system or lineage of training? -VonKrankenhaus

How would anyone stand out here if they have attained "something" in Neigong? And why? Achievements in Neigong would seem invisible to people who cannot recognize them. What is going on here that would motivate anyone to show or describe any? Who here has even trained beginner stuff to know what they are seeing? I came here to discuss Neigong training after nearly 50 yrs of experience with it. But I have no needs. Not selling Neigong or myself. Just discussing experiences and details and facts. If you don't want this, that is interesting to me too and good to know. Before I join this list I was in a forest. Came out, got computer, and join this group a few yrs ago. First 50 yrs I was only doing. Now I am discussing and learning how to discuss things like this. It is going very much as I had expected it would, and I will continue. -VonKrankenhaus

If you mean to imply that I do not have results from my training, then you are incorrect. I haven't seen people training for decades with no results ever. Even fake teachers are getting results - attracting students, and so on. To take such an adversary or nay-sayer attitude here is strange when you do not know. I asked what purpose you want to study Neigong. I could also ask what is the purpose for the negative attitude? I have merely been trying to clarify some basic things about this training. And I asked a couple questions about people's motivations and the purpose of their interest in Internal Cultivation. You can build up only bad luck with negativity. -VonKrankenhaus

Okay. I'll leave you to it then. -VonKrankenhaus

What kind of siddhis are goals and evidence? And again I will ask - How do you know they are? -VonKrankenhaus

How do you know they are? Can you display any examples of this? What would those things do or be for you that you do not have now? -VonKrankenhaus

"attained siddhis or reached immortality?" - Are these your goals? If they are - can you describe these goals in more detail? -VonKrankenhaus

I do not agree with that idea about beings and dimensions. It doesn't describe reality. The stuff about 10, 30, 55 yrs - In traditional training this is not possible. Each stage, starting with Gongfu, is difficult, and sorts out what progress is and isn't. Teachers and mentors guide this and inspire it. Carrying us bags of grain, how do we know who is too weak to carry very far and who is not? Problems come up - How do we know who cannot solve these and who can? We want to go somewhere - How do we know who actually knows the way and who does not? So one question is - What are people trying to do with Neigong, and why? And based on what? What examples? Traditional way, the teachers are the examples. Easy. -VonKrankenhaus

Only relative to people today. But goal of training is not abstract or devoid of logic or meaning, and is not beyond understanding. It is actually simple. Obscured language, but not so obscure technically. Part is like "mind training", and yes, this transcends linear causality and also most fake ideas about what is a human and what life is. But nobody is suddenly in that situation. In years of development, each stage is able to see the next, so this is "progress". Who today needs no-powerful power? Teachers are looking for students. Students are looking for something they saw on TV or in magazine. How much does Reality cost today? What would people do with it? Techniques developed from purpose. What is the purpose people have in mind so as to need these techniques? Is that what they developed from, or are made to solve or facilitate? Not being aware of the techniques - then how does anyone know the answer to this? What would you do with these techniques? What will you "get"? -VonKrankenhaus

All I am seeing in modern books so far stops at Fire/Water basics. It is clear that the writers have not even fully work this stage. People eating refined modern foods and drinking fluoride water and ever taking antobiotics or chemical and hormone medications cannot even understand or do Iron Shirt. Marrow Washing will be disturbed - not possible. Where to go from that? Learn Chang Ming Shu, learn to discern what build and what destructs Body, and then study Iron Shirt again. No normal body functioning means no Iron Shirt and no Marrow Washing and means no going anywhere further. Good traditional Gongfu has all basics and Iron Shirt - so start there is okay. -VonKrankenhaus

I had not seen any books about this until just recent 5 years or so. Before that I had some Chinese texts and my notes from 1970s to now. First 10 years was all personal instruction from being a kid, then I went to the world to look. I am amazed by the books that have been published. Best route for people still is traditional training from the basics. Then you are at least starting in the ballpark. -VonKrankenhaus

If you mean the "Reunion of Heaven and Man" stuff you posted: Those aren't techniques. Those are like "filler", or "ad copy" text, not cultivation. Just a kind of "marketing". "Fluff". People who bought old texts were not taught these techniques. Some are sincere and honest about this, and others are not so much honest. These techniques exist. First step to finding them is being able to recognize them. If you trained up to that point where you need these, then consult who taught you. If it was these people with books, or online videos, then you are not actually being taught cultivation. Seek a traditional school. Start with traditional Gongfu school. If real, that will put you in contact with better and real learning to go forward. Without that - look like everyone is just "guessing" what to do with no teacher in sight. -VonKrankenhaus

This is the Return to the Nothingness and the Crushing the Nothingness. These techniques exist. But I see nobody is prepared. It takes years for a normal person to get to. Today, people are not even normal. They are "impaired". So they need to study and practice to get to "normal" first. Then do the 15+ yrs training to get to these techniques. If you got to that - you are not asking here what to do next. -VonKrankenhaus