vonkrankenhaus

Re: ----- "A more complex question is in what sense the "entities" a Magickian is contacting are external." ----- Right. For example, south american tobacco shamans use very strong tobacco to go into a trance state and see/communicate with entities that look like worms or snakes. These entities they see tell them they really love tobacco and want more. The thing is, this tobacco plant has "pests". These insects lay eggs on tobacco leaves, and the larvae hatch and eat the plants. The larvae are worms. The shaman is smoking, ingesting, the insect eggs on the tobacco leaves. As these burn, they release their energy into the body and circulation of the shaman. Essentially, the shaman is communicating with the worms they smoked, and what was on their minds when they died was to grow big and eat much tobacco. Additionally, the worms contain information about their immediate environment, and the shaman may use this to make predictions or correct people's view of local (or extended as much as a worm realizes) reality. So perhaps the shaman is not "tripping out" so much as tripping in. The tobacco makes the shaman go cold, numb, and unconscious - shutting down the more overt functions of circulation and ideation and moving into a more "death-like" and much more basic level of internal function and consciousness. This is what allows the shaman to pay attention to such tiny internal signals and information as a dying worm egg. -VonKrankenhaus

Be sure to chew these liquid "smoothies", because blenders do not emit digestive enzymes (saliva). Also - be cautious with using green vegetables that are high in oxalates (spinach, kale, etc, etc): http://townsendletter.com/Jan2015/green0115.html#.VV9K4xLpRbQ.facebook Not everything in the above linked article is correct, but I present it here to introduce the general issue of oxalate-rich vegetables being consumed raw in quantity. And of course, this would be of interest to the "pineal decalcification" people. -VonKrankenhaus

- Just want to say that I appreciate very much the posts thus far in this thread, and I do hope that even more people here will post on this. For something that can involve so much ongoing effort and attention, it would seem to me that people at any level of cultivation would be curious as to the results and effects noted by others. There are lots of ideas and debates here about "how and why" - so this is just about "what" - what happens as a result of whatever it is people have been doing. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "If you have any career advice for someone who wants to spread the Good News but doesn't want o make it all about Jesus then please let me know" ----- The idea of "career" means paid money for doing a "job", at ongoing regular basis? I know I myself will be smiling, possibly for many years, now that I have read your email exchange with the Church of England. -VonKrankenhaus

One question people reading this may have is to wonder what the difference in results the people posting are experiencing from their particular interpretation on this subject. Otherwise - how would many even find context to these debates? I did start a thread for this, if anyone interested: http://thedaobums.com/topic/38454-what-results-do-people-here-have-from-training/ -VonKrankenhaus

I appreciate everyone's responses and sincerity, and I am happy to see so many good things happening with people. And I look forward to (hope for) many more responses. I think this would be interesting to anyone, and would be a good opportunity for anyone to detail, or even promote, their particular training methods, school, style, and results. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "A kind of coherent quantum infinite potential that contains the whole universe." ----- Yes, we return to One, or "God". This is normal human life. ----- "But to achieve that level also means a complete purification of the previous physical body so that the new immortal body looks exactly like the perfect previous physical body (perfect as when jing energy was prime at age 16 or so)." ----- This is where people need to be careful in their assumptions. But even this - this is essentially the normal expression of human life. And now, with what is called "normal" human life in the modern era - this is where special practices and trainings have arisen to compensate for this new domesticated "normal", and there is obviously so much confusion about what needs to be done and why, etc. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "This is why physical immortality is so difficult to achieve, and tuning our mind is more fundamental than tuning our life or circumstances." ----- "Physical immortality" is an oxymoron, because whatever physically exists will subsequently cease to exist. Without our life and our life circumstances, what is there of us to be asking about immortality? Immortality is a change of state, not the perpetuation and continuation of an existing one. Whatever began will end. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "There are various ways of attaining altered states of consciousness." ----- Most important may be to understand how it is we are having the consciousness that we do have. Then we would know why or how or when to "alter" it. -VonKrankenhaus

Human beings did not evolve from refined supplements and isolated chemicals. They evolve in interaction with the environment - our "larger self". Nutritional and chemical theories do not completely represent the overall environment - there will always be a lot missing from these ideas, which are largely based on a materialistic and mechanistic and false view of life. Since much is missing, these ideas and products, which are both partial conceptions of what is involved in the environment and all living beings that are manifesting from that environment, the results of this may be quite disorderly and hard to eventually "fix" or "reconcile". The use of this modern thinking and the products of it are an experiment, and the results of the experiment right now include the greatest incidence of degenerative disease mankind has ever seen. So be cautious, and do very good research, or you may end up with many difficult problems. -VonKrankenhaus

I only became aware of Mantak Chia's "inner smile" stuff recently, but I learned something like this in 70s. Way I learned is somewhat different, but looking at his I will try to describe similarities. It is training to see and "identify" with organs function and interaction. If you look at any good 5 phases diagram, this is showing what you are basically becoming familiar with. From this you will start to see, feel, and eventually be able to effect organs. This is a basis, and is not so much about cultivating qi or organ qi just yet - but about creating the ability to see and "communicate" with body (specific organs) at a more detailed level that will be important in other parts of qi cultivation. I would think for westerners that are so much seeing psychological level of things, ideas, this is helpful to introduce a different way of looking ("feeling") at organs and organ function that is more in-line with qigong way and leading to actual qi cultivation. That is just what it (Mantak Chia "Inner Smile" practice) look like to me at this time. -VonKrankenhaus

Emotions are connected to the organs. So early qigong practice is becoming familiar with this and gaining mastery of organs function and interactions. Any good 5 phases diagram will show how major organs are interelated energetically and what organs are relating to what emotions. Essentially, a large part is about gaining mastery of hormonal functions - neurotransmitters are hormones too - so this is concern with our interaction with environment at even the most basic level of awareness. Most "psychological" explainations of emotions are actually looking more "after the fact" - like picking a leaf if we to try chopping a tree down. Lots of leaves up there - easy to get lost in them. If trunk is there, and roots are there, picking leaves just results in more shoots coming out to replace them. Lots of discussion, but not addressing source. Organs are processing "energy", which is equal to the "environment". Much emotion is really just discharge of excess from various organs. Looking at it "psychologically" will not see what is being discharged, but is like merely seeing the effect - like seeing leaf of tree but not seeing it attached to branch, attach to trunk, attach to roots, and what are roots in. Most simply, emotions are the other side of food. Organs are 100% made of food, and food is another word for our total overall environment, which includes the dense minerals found at the core of the planet to cosmic rays and infinite nothingness. Taking this "outer" environment into ourselves in ways that are out of natural order (Tao) will make inner environment (our body) also out of order. Discharge from organs becomes imbalanced - out of proportion to internal and to external environment (micro-cosmos and macro-cosmos). The aggregated functionings mentioned constitute the "energy body" which is related to specific and overall metabolism and expression. In cultivation, this "energy body" is mastered as a prerequisite for development of the "spirit body". -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "If you're going to argue a point then at least state the desired effect. This thread has no context." ----- There have indeed been many threads here (TDB forum) on this subject, and in most of text that has been generated, people have stated various effects they are trying to achieve, and the various concepts that they "believe in". I always assume that what people are "going towards" is their Destiny, which is related to their Source. Since their Source is Infinite Oneness, or "God, then how could this also not be their true Destiny? "God", or Infinite Oneness, is in fact "celibate". And the entire Manifested Universe is arising from "sex", from differentiation and contraction (YinYang). Sex is coming from no-sex, and no-sex is coming from sex. This is just natural order (Tao). But I see that most of the text here (TDB forum) on this subject (but not all) is not really about this, but is about achieving what has been presented by various sources as important parts of qigong, neigong, and shengong practices. I myself have some experience with this subject, and much earlier in my training I explored this and did fairly long periods of internal training in 100% celibacy. Time periods like 3 years, 5 years, etc, combine with special meditation and cultivation practices. I have also trained the other way from celibacy, and have done extensive training in partnership with female cultivators, most of which I probably should not describe. But one thing of note is that I, after 2 decades of internal training practice, tried to find the most opposite, most un-recommended (conventionally) results related to celibacy. For over 10 years. What I discovered in that decade, especially coming after so long of training before, was truly incredible - but I see is not part of conventional discussion here or anywhere else. I have also approached many of the issues commonly associated with the concept of celibacy in cultivation through other means, and this from realizations I have had regarding my previous experiences. Studying these other means, I see that I have encountered aspects that I see also have been missing from common discussion almost entirely. From this experience, I see that the debate about these things is mostly just "canned" or "automated", and not really always the result of true exploration. It look more like arguments about assumptions. I say Keep Testing. The Universe, and the Truth, is far bigger than any of these assumptions. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "So how does one go about changing this ? Even though I've been a cultivator for many years, I carry a lot of anger and hatred. So much so, that some people who I really hate, I wish would die a horrible death. I've even visualised myself performing the gruesome act !" ----- This may be a measure of our Freedom. Are we free to accept both sides of coin, or are we trying to catch coin that has only one side? Even if we try to cut off one side by force, this is producing two sides again. Why are we not free to see and understand everything? And how could we believe that exclusion would produce freedom? Aren't "bad" ideas just as informative as "good" ideas? And even in our "best" exchanges with others, are we not also exchanging bacteria and viruses? And if we make each other sick while complimenting each other, isn't this also informative and useful to us? And even people who are actively opposing and subjugating us - are they not also teaching us the deeper aspects of Freedom? Our Freedom may not depend so much on what we can put off, put down, avoid, or kill - but on what we can freely accept and use. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "If you are expecting your ability to sense things in reality to be heightened, then there is most certainly benefit to be had from removing an activity that tends to be dis-equilibrating for the whole biological and energetic system." ----- Is this saying that sex interaction is "dis-equilibrating"? Isn't male/female a polarity? How would this polarity be unfied without interaction of male and female? Why and how does this polarity of male and female come to exist in first place? Seeing Tai Chi symbol - is showing this polarity arising, and also the unfication of polarity. -VonKrankenhaus

- To be followed by a huge argument about who understands this better? -VonKrankenhaus (I making joke - but good article, and good point, Apech)

Re: ----- "The disembodied head and shrivelling placentas are spooky. I guess I do see the divisions like placenta vs baby, as untrue , since I see the divisions themselves as arbitrary. We`re a clump of cells, that has vestigial cells within , the placenta is part of the baby ,,I think,, and its attached to the mother,,etc and so on. Just dont take me too extremely on this. I do recognize divions like anyone else,,I just know them to be arbitrary. A deck of playing cards, for example , anyone can pick out the aces, or jokers ,or diamonds ,or flushes etc and so forth, its just mental subdivisions." ----- Nothing arbitrary about the fact that none of us still has a placenta attached as adults, and that once the placenta is in the air world outside of the womb it does not continue with us, but falls off and dries up. Same way with our human body upon our "death" - it does not simply "evaporate" or "spiritualize", but it falls down and dries up, returning to the Earth realm. Physical body is forming more from centrepital Heaven's force and stays on Earth, whereas consciousness is then forming more from centerfugal Earth's force and going outward and becoming less dense. Main point is just that we have all come here from Infinity, and we are all returning to Infinity, and we are all essentially "high level beings", and here we are, posting on internet. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "Good start, then it got spooky. May I ask if this is a faith that there is a group of folks who ascribe to, or is it a personal metaphor or conceptualization?" ----- What did you find to be "spooky"? To me, these things are just easy to see. Does anyone see placenta as different, for example? Like, maybe it teaches us nice songs??? -VonKrankenhaus

In this material world, we are situated horizontally - next to one another on the surface of this planet. Thus, we are all the same here, and the attempt to deny this horizontal situation and imagine instead vertical "levels" of existence whereby one person is "above" another - this is a trick, a manipulation. But when the rain comes here, "it don't fall on just one man's head". In non-material spirit world, there is verticality as a matter of attachment and density/frequency of vibration. We can see that while still on Earth, and this is what ancestor respect is about, and is what development of consciousness is about. While our body is walking from one place to another next to everyone, our mind has no limit, and can reach spirit realm. Our conception into this world from the spirit world is our appearance in the all-dark womb realm, where our placenta will guide us through a miniature of evolution on this planet taking about 280 days. Then upon our birth into the half-light/half-dark air world, the placenta falls off and dries up. Notice that we existed in two parts - placenta and body in womb. This human body is the placenta that is now developing our spirit body or "consciousness" for birth in the all-light spirit world. Notice that we exist in two parts - body and head. Upon our birth into the spirit world, commonly called today "death", then body falls off and dries up, and spirit body is born into this realm. In spirit realm we are moving back to our original home, and our going there is a matter of attachment and density - if we are still attached to this physical realm, we must return here to dissolve this. Originally, we are the Infinite Universe or "God", and so we are all truly "high level beings" having various levels and types of experiences. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "Why should we challenge what someone already thinks? Why should we support what someone already thinks? They wont like the first option, and the second is useless." ----- "Challenging" or "supporting" - this is like consumerism, where that person's thinking is seen as a product we either "use" or do not, or approve of or do not. Consumerism at a mass level requires much conformity, and much of our programming is about providing guidelines that we end up using as a substitute for true judgement and true discernment. So if we can stop "consuming" our friends, and stop presenting ourselves as consumer products, maybe then we could just let thoughts be thoughts and actions be actions, no matter whose, and the reality of both might be more obvious as-is. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "Doesnt it seem plausible, that the expectations you have , might not actually be theirs?" ----- Excellent point - obvious, but often so totally overlooked. ----- "People generally defend the ideas they have, really respond negatively to input they dont recognize. I dont think its out of stupidity, because its true for bright folks. Its not out of fear, since they dont feel afraid all the time. Why then are folks resistant? I think its because we love the illusions we hold. There is something we treasure about every stupid thing ,and every other thing ,we chooose for ourselves." ----- It is also true that people damaged at the start by "managed" birth, then brainwashed in "schools" for about 16+ straight years, exposed to thousands of hours of media "programming", and fed tortured animals, hormones, neurotoxins, and refined chemicals - they might be capable of holding to some illusions. -VonKrankenhaus

Good Idea. If not for food, which is merely the overall environment in compacted form (including vibration and energy waves), there would be no living beings. And mismanagement of food and eating (and thus expression) is a major problem facing humanity right now, producing an amazing array of degenerative diseases, which are in turn producing the situation whereby iatrogenic harm is now the leading cause of death. Exploring this would be of interest to qigong/neigong practitioners - who are generally trying to gain conscious control over body and hormone functions, and are working with the interplay of energy in the organs, and also in attaining mental stillness. Considering that human beings are omnivores, and our food range extends from the center of Earth to the farthest reaches of the cosmos, the study of food is really the study of the Infinite Universe, or "God". -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "He looked at the storm and told his disciples that the storm was a little child throwing a temper tantrum. Therefore, he immediately gave the storm a "name," and asked his disciples to speak to the child, call it by its name, and simply ask it to calm down. As all of the disciples began to call the storm by its name, and speak gently and lovingly in order to calm the "disruptive child," to their amazement, the storm suddenly vanished." ----- My children do this all the time. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "If asked about what in Western sciences we can find things related to or close to the Taoist concept of 'Shen' , the only area I can think of is Modern Cosmology, definitely not the part called ' Brain Science'." ----- Excellent statement. -VonKrankenhaus

It is a very good account of a westerner encountering eastern thought and explaining his initial (mis)perceptions or biases, and then further he explains to westerners the nature of the differences he saw. This is a general process that people coming into these practices from western upbringing do encounter - the cultural assumptions not matching, the language used being not "literal", and so on. And another reason it is good to have real people as teacher and not just book. -VonKrankenhaus