vonkrankenhaus

Re: ----- "I'd say the radio is already a type of wave" ----- Yes, like everything, the radio is compacted energy. But what I mean is that the radio is used to receive/send waves. How does a radio work? In the simplest radio, a crystal is what is doing the work. The (compacted) crystal is at polarity with the waves (expansive). This is just yin/yang basic concept. We would not increase the radio's efficiency with waves if we, for example, vaporise the radio. That will end the polarity, and end radio reception/transmission. By taking the environment intelligently ("diet"), we can choose what we want to receive/send - more physical or more spirit. We can choose our structure and experience. Without this freedom, how will true cultivation proceed? In fact, what would it even be? So, technique -- Hammering and contorting the physical body, the after-effect, into various configurations, is like trying to remove from your home a bunch of furniture delivered by accident - when the additional step of asking the delivery people if they have the correct address first had been ignored as an option. -VonKrankenhaus

Here I present some basic ideas to keep the discussion going. It would take a huge post to even do an overview here, so I try in little semi-connected chunks right now - and also, opinions, and even frank opposition, from anyone are welcome: First off, it seems obvious that people looking for "super-human" abilities should first master human abilities. There is no ability that you are going to exhibit that is not a human ability, but with intelligence, good sense, and extensive gongfu, some of these can actually be fairly "super". Without a good basis and skill as a human being first, such as the achievement of whatever health and happiness you need and desire, then one would have no platform from which to develop much of anything beyond that. The view into what is possible comes best from the further-along viewpoint of achievement, and not so much from stories and legends and promises coming from something or someone else. Those tales rarely gel beyond the barstools where they were born. In terms of vibrational spectrum - do you want to recieve and send at those vibrational levels, or do you want to exist at those vibrational levels? Existing at them is like trying to turn your radio into a radio wave. Our functions and senses differentiate as we grow. And in evolution they did. More differentiation means more, and more refined, interaction with the environment - like the difference between a cloven hoof and a human hand. Like the way a baby's gross motor movements later become ballet dancing. (BTW - babies exhibit many many amazing "skills" - like intuitive qigong, intuitive shiatsu, and so forth - watch them any chance you get. And the learning inherent in the "householder" stage of life, if one is lucky enough to have that, provides a massive base of experiences for later taking up cultivation practices and eventually graduating from human issues.) You don't want to become the vibrations - that will happen to all of us soon enough quite naturally. You want to receive and send them. You want your perception and expression to differentiate further to be able to sense in these realms of finer (higher frequency) vibrational phenomena. As yin attracts yang and yang attracts yin - how would you attract, for example, yin vibration? Not by becoming yin. So-called "dietary" practice is like the steering wheel of the car you're driving in your particular manifestation of the environment. Your "larger self" is the larger overall environment that manifested you, as you. Here I show one small key to understanding what this means: The governing and conception vessels are actually connected, in a way. The place where they "connect" is the entire alimentary tract. These two vessels form a loop, like a figure-eight. Otherwise, in the mouth, there is the uvula coming part-way down, and the tongue which we can put up. Notice that when you chew food you touch the roof of the mouth with the tongue intermittently. This transfers chi from the newly broken-up food (environment) to the brain, which then prepares the system via essence (hormones, digestive juice functions, etc) according to this information (chi). The importance of saliva and chewing to basic human living, not to mention further internal cultivation, should be understood as completely as possible. This "connection" of the governing & conception vessels is a remnant of our initial growth in the womb, which is a miniature of the evolution of humanity. At the stage of simpler water-based development the mouth is the center of the body - think of an eel, for instance. So the vessels come in at the mouth and go down through the alimentary tract. Like "food" does. In an apple, for example, the energy field that is producing the apple comes in at the stem, goes down through the core, and comes out the bottom and up the sides again, making a loop when it goes back in on itself into the top again. Like the earth's electromagnetic field. This energy body is producing the physical body structure. The energy body comes from spirit. Like all phenomena, our "use" of vibration has polarity - we use dense physical vibration and also non-dense non-physical vibration. Our bodies can be seen as divided, front and back, and each is more geared for one - the expanded front dealing in the compacted physical environment ("food") and the hard back dealing more with vibration (expansive). These are distributed in the organs, or, we should say, as the organs. So "food" and "diet" is a much bigger thing than people are currently understanding. Discussing further could go after questions on this part, because these are very basic ideas as groundwork. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "The accounts of the Immortals I have read is 90% diet related and that diet becoming lighter and lighter... and so the body also becomes lighter and lighter... energetics If people changed their diet it might save them 20 odd years of meditation or advance it 10x" ----- This is all basically correct. But it's not actually a process of becoming "lighter" (maybe except for many very modern people). One problem is that perhaps people might think they will enact these severe restrictions when their immediate situation and past are that they have been eating a tremendous lot of completely haphazard stuff - the modern "scientific" and "nutritional" diet as presented via advertising, showbiz, politics and consumerism. None of these things just listed is based on achieving anything we are discussing. That kind of transition is,,, ridiculous. And dangerous. Better to spend some years (and years) (and years) studying and applying towards understanding at the most basic and clear levels what "food" really is. This initial practice will show the way forward into what we are discussing. There seems to be a huge gap in meditation & cultivation practices regarding "food" and "diet" that is not entirely missing from TCM. But truly, there is more to this than I have seen in the available materials, on any subject, of which I am aware. I will try to write a more complete post describing what I am referring to - might take me a day or two - and I will post it. -VonKrankenhaus

Re: "experimenting/experience" ----- I would be interested to know what kind of experiments you have done, and the kinds of experiences you have had that are related to this. I do see that texts like the Illiad & Odyssey (and many many others) contain an aspect of allegorical depiction of "heavenly" ("outer space") time cycles and (physical) astronomy/astrology - which is often thought to be or contain allusions to "internal alchemy". This may not be true for many texts. -VonKrankenhaus

Supernatural and miracles - most people looking for these look right past a huge supernatural miracle as they ask - and that is themselves, that they appear and are asking these questions while doing so. Can anyone really explain how and why this ever happened? "speak with extraterrestrials" - have you ever spoken to a new baby? The baby is apparently a terrestrial now, but where was it 100 years ago? "the ability to appear places by willpower" - is this what the baby did? It seems that these may actually be baby abilities, "mere" child's play that we probably just never penetrate the mystery of. We are immersed in mystery. We are immersed in the supernatural. And this is because as human beings we will never even fully see even the "natural". We will not have the perspective of being outside of nature, of being above or below or beside nature. We are appearing and disappearing as manifestations of manifestations of nature. "Supernatural" is an issue merely because we have never understood "natural". -VonKrankenhaus

Re: ----- "I mean more refined chi...not as dense so the body becomes more heavenly?" ----- Yes, now I understand what you are referring to. This level of practice/experience is actually my own focus of the last 30 years (that after 10 years of conventional training). I have never written about it. Never discussed it outside of my family. It just hasn't seemed applicable to the concerns of any people I see in daily life. Is there someone living who is teaching these things now? It would be impossible to detail everything I have gone through in my own learning, but I actually cannot imagine any modern person having the access to the information and the type of "lifestyle" that could not only result from this, but also be a requisite to progress at an early enough stage. I will say that there is a continuum in understanding physical and spiritual, and that without mastering as much as possible the selection, preparation, and eating of physical "food" (IE: the overall environment - the junction of Heaven & Earth we inhabit as human beings), it is difficult if not impossible (let's say "unlikely") to truly progress towards the subject you wrote about. Stories of Sennin in Japan and achieved Taoist masters of China (but not limited to these) eating pine needles and other items, and many of them not considered as food of mankind, point more-or-less directly at what I mean. These things are not part of the current fake culture delusion living at all. I will certainly read more backlogged posts here if things like that are a common subject now. I had no idea. Maybe we can have some interesting online discussion of this. -VonKrankenhaus

RE: ----- "So... technically one could live on Chi? cut out the middleman so to say? Is Chi different to Sunlight/. Cosmic/ Radiant energy? Then you fly away like a unicorn?" ----- Sarcasm? Seriously interested? Technically, we are chi living in chi. ALL "food" is chi - physically manifested - like your body is. "middleman"? - do you mean not eating physicalized food and directly "eating" chi? In a sense, this is what eating physicalized food is, because physical and spirit are the same things at different densities. It is possible to intake/digest/express chi in more primary forms from natural (and "un-natural") sources. This is Tao Yin, Chi Kung and Hei Kung practices, etc. But those who cannot see that the environment as compacted in the selection, preparation, and eating of food is primary at the beginning, will undoubtedly see it at the advanced level of practice - there's only so far one can go without it. Doing even good Chi Kung while taking in, "physically" (compacted), the overall environment in chaotic fashion will not produce strong or sustained progress. Nothing is different from chi. The "intermediary" or "middleman" you refer to could also be seen as mankind, as in Heaven/Mankind/Earth, as we are appearing and functioning in the interplay between Heaven and Earth. I don't even know how to respond to the "unicorn" thing. -VonKrankenhaus

"Diet" is an interesting concept - but most often an incorrect one, as it assumes a "body" in an "environment" eating "food" - and all of these seen as somehow separate. For example, I've seen texts and lectures advertised that purport to define "food as chi". But in terms of the manifestation/dispersal of the universe, what is really happening is chi manifesting AS food. "Food" did not exist before chi. The body did not exist before chi nor before the environment. Food dissolves back into/as chi. The body dissolves back into the environment. So "diet" is the way the environment (chi) is manifesting and dispering as "body". What we call "food" is a physical crystalization of the environment as "taken in by" (becoming) the body - but can also mean less dense energy than physicalized food - the whole spectrum, actually. The basics for understanding this is I Ching, yin/yang, 5 phases, and actual living experience. Thus that "diet" becomes an understanding of the ways that the overall environment is manifesting as the body, and the ways the body is dispersing back into the environment in every expression it therefore makes. These are nothing but the movements of yin/yang and the condensation/dispersal of chi. -VonKrankenhaus

Hello! I've just signed-up on this forum, and this is just a general greeting to announce that I did so. I have been interested in and involved with life for a few years, and have been involved with kungfu and chikung, acupuncture, chinese medicine and meditation practices since around 1972. Hoping to become involved in some interesting online discussions regarding these topics. -VonKrankenhaus