vonkrankenhaus

Why make such pronouncements about things you've obviously never studied? Why bring such incorrect junk to a group that discuss Taoism? Jing is not "energy" or Qi. In terms of a body, it is the various polarities inherent in both the inherited and acquired Substance of the body. -VonKrankenhaus

You could study them to find out. What you can find out is that Qi is just movement, and movement cannot be "stored". This is not what is happening - "storage". "Storage" of Qi just means able to maintain Jing - the Polarity that is causing Qi. If you can maintain the potentials that movement happens within, you are maintaining Qi ability - the ability to have a movement in that polarity. You can ruin your "inborn" potentials by ruining body polarities enough to lose structure. You can change your "acquired" potentials by taking in food and other things This is maintaining Qi ability - maintaining the polarities that cause movement. The Essence of movement is Polarity. The expression of Polarity is Movement. -VonKrankenhaus

Jing is the essence of Qi as Qi is the expression of Jing. Polarity is the essence of Movement as Movement is the expression of Polarity. Neither is "higher". Jing is the potentials, the polarities that Qi moves in, or we could say "that movement happens within". In the body, in society, any kind. Neither one happens without the other. -VonKrankenhaus

"Qi of Jing" is not so inaccurate. Jing is the polarities and potentials that cause movement. And Qi is that movement which is caused. The "Qi of that Jing" means the Qi (movement) that results from that given polarity or set of potentials. -VonKrankenhaus

There are many channels ("meridians" - a word associated to this by a French guy around 1920s): There are the 12 "organ" channels. There are the 8 "Extra" channels. There are 12 Divergent channels. There are 15 Collateral channels. There are 12 muscle regions. There are 12 skin regions. And many Luo These are working by YinYang or "Polarity" causing Movement, or "Qi". And these workings are correlated over long time to celestial events used as a clock and calendar. This is Wu Xing ("5 Phases") and Bagua ("8 Trigrams") - the interactions that produce variations, etc. The organ channels are what most people see. At one end is the environment and at the other is an "organ" - but organ means different than the anatomical organ in the western medicine. "Kidney" for example, includes kidneys, adrenal glands, testicles, and more. The interactions of all of this is VERY complex when studied completely. -VonKrankenhaus

The examples I gave of Electricity and Thermodynamics are happening in your body all the time. Cells are in polarities with extracellular fluid and each other, and are creating electrical charges, and heat is moving in Hot/Cold polarities in the body. By this and other things your "metabolism" and "actions" are functioning. And these are also functioning in polarities and thus changing. YinYang is "polarity". You experience this all the time - Day/Night, Awake/Asleep, and so on - all causing Movement or "actions". Without polarity, there is no distinguish anything from anything - or even "thing" from "nothing". The first Movement is what reveals Stasis. Before Movement, even Stasis is invisible, and this is WuJi - No Polarity. Taiji means polarity. TaijiTu means "Supreme Polarity Diagram", which is like saying this show the most basic way of polarity, or we could say it shows how "Polarity" itself functions. Wuji = No Polarity Taiji = Polarity This is how we discern all things, and all things from all other things. So what I am showing is all about all functioning. That is the thing the science I am describing was developed to explain the details and Way ("Tao") of. -VonKrankenhaus

In describing Qi as movement between the poles of any polarity, I offered the real world examples of Electricity and Thermodynamics -- how they also work. Ever use a battery? The battery exhibit electrical polarity in its + and - poles, and electrons move in this polarity from the - pole to the + pole. The electrons are not the Qi. They are physical substance being moved by the polarity. The movement itself is Qi, not the substance. The polarity is the "Jing" of the battery. When exhausted, no more Qi. Heat too, the movements or Qi of heat is Thermodynamics, and heat moves in the polarity of Hot/Cold from Hot to Cold. Once they equal, Jing is gone, and Qi stops. All temperature is then equal, so no polarity is there once the polarity or Jing is exhausted by the movement and mixing of Hot and Cold. Tell me any "concepts" I show that you want explained and I will try to more fully explain. -VonKrankenhaus

Yes, it seems that what I learned is unknown here. I learned from childhood onward Chinese Gongfu, Qigong, and Neigong, and Taiji philosophy, Chinese medicine, and History, Chemistry, Physics, Western Medicine, and Electronic and Mechanical Engineering. Gongfu lineage I started in from 70s is from Wong Fei Hung, Lam Sai Wing, Lam Cho, etc. But it is clear that none of this matters to this discussion of the ignorant fantasies of modern men who obviously never looked up from their comic books and entertainments to ever study any of these subjects. And that's not a "claim". It's there in all the writing people have done here that nobody understands even basic grade-school science or even the slightest basics of the Chinese terms they are using. Which is very interesting in and of itself, and I sincerely thank everyone participating, for showing me this. -VonKrankenhaus

I think anyone could, because you can SEE how he does it: -VonKrankenhaus

You might want to review electricity in a text book, just for reference. If it's an electric field, electrons are moving in it. No, it's heat. "Thermo" = "heat". "Dynamics" = "Movements" The movements of Heat. The "Qi" of Heat. -VonKrankenhaus

It is all movements and has resulted in all manifest existence. And things like electricity that we can see every day. This is like asking what is "energy" and "movement" used for. But Qi you probably here for is all Qi happening in the body, in a human being. So we study YinYang in the body and between body and overall environment. Inside body we use the YinYang of the channels and organs. We relate this to outside the body with Wu Xing, and also using Bagua and I Ching. These are showing movements in polarities, and also they are timekeeping reference originally based on the planets and stars, particular the Pole Stars. This is what calendar comes from. Used to make empirical observations for a long time. We use all of this to understand "Tao" - the way it all works. What can you do with this? You can manage yourself and family and live here on this planet almost indefinitely as Humanity. -VonKrankenhaus

I do believe this mistaken interpretation of Qi as a specific special substance or thing or power or force just about completely prevents people from understanding it. Including China and anywhere else. The scientific examinations, the modern Qigong customers, even modern "TCM" students, etc - messed up for anyone. I think the traditional understanding of Qi is important to study and interpret correctly if you want understand what these terms even mean "Qi" and "YinYang" and "Wu Xing" and Wuji" and Taiji" and so on. Without that, people are using interpretations from New Age tricksters and from believing entertainments and fantasy portrayals. Scientists sent on fool's errand to prove movie scenes and legends made for other purposes. If you want to say TaiJi philosophy and YinYang and Wu Xing aren't important to what you doing - then you are not doing Chinese Qigong or Neigong. Call it something else. Without those, it will BE something else. "Qi" - that exact word and concept is Chinese and determined over a long history. That is the one I am looking at and am interested in explaining, and in a good modern way as possible. -VonKrankenhaus

I don't see how that applies, when true knowledge is based on FEELING! Show me the way. The substance that moves in polarities will vary. In electric polarity, it is electrons moving. In thermodynamics it is heat moving. Between Up and Down - MANY things are moving. So this depends on the polarity. And the movement is ALL Qi. Qi is that movement, not the substances that may be moving in the polarity causing the Qi. YinYang is the study of Polarity. I study this very much for a long time. Very much. Polarity is causing Qi. No polarity = no movement. In the body we have many different polarities happening. Chinese medicine, and Qigong, is the study of these and how they function. -VonKrankenhaus

Qi exists. But it is not a substance or thing like many seem to think. It is movement between the poles of any polarity. In the body, in outer space, wherever. You must study and know YinYang to even begin to understand Qi. -VonKrankenhaus

Taoism, YinYang, Qi, Wu Xing, Bagua, I Ching - just basics elements of traditional Taiji philosophy. And how these relate to modern science. I studied these. They are at the basis level of discussion of Qi in the way people here want to find - but nobody here has studied these. -VonKrankenhaus

Face is showing the whole body and organs and functions. This is used for diagnosis traditionally. Not much studied today due to modern equipment and tests, but in some ways is better. Most accessible now is Taoist "fortune-telling" point system - you can see face chart online and look for discussions. Problem is, the mechanisms by which it work are not detailed in modern materials, even in most "TCM" studies. So study all old medicine materials is necessary to find the details. -VonKrankenhaus

Taiji philosophy is a big part of Taoism. Worth studying. This diagram shows many things about the arising and workings of polarity. In the center of the Taiji you see the One (little circle) have, show, or display Polarity, symbolized by Fire and Water trigrams. Fire and Water chosen because showing "true" Yang and "true" Yin. Wu Xing is a calendar-observation system derived from the visible planets. Western systems more use 7, and 7 is the 5 planets plus "luminaries" of Sun and Moon. Wu Xing is thus "10 Stems", which is planet-named days of week, and calendar. Notice in diagram Zhou write "Yang is movement" and "Yin is stasis". This is the secret that YinYang, the Taiji, is not "reversible" or "reflexive". That is why the right side of your body isn't turning into the left side. And it is how there can be stable "matter" at all. There is much more in this diagram. I encourage everyone to study Taoism for real and see. -VonKrankenhaus

Yes, people who never studied any of this have a hard time understanding it. Look at the response to showing Zhou Dunyi TajiTu - Nuthin'. Because apparently none of you knows what this is. I do not expect any to suddenly know without ever studying. And your egos are no problem. So I just put the things here in case anyone else reading, or if it lights a spark, recognized, maybe someone will actually study something some day. I will try to follow discussion, but becoming too busy just now. -VonKrankenhaus

POLARITY. Also: "scalar fields often describe the potential energy associated with a particular force" "Potential" is just "possible" but not "happening". If the field is created by an energy, it is caused by movement. Energy is movement in a polarity, and Substance is static unless moved by energy. -VonKrankenhaus

All you guys are funny. That was in response my statements: No movement = no Qi, and No movement = no energy. Field energy is moving energy. It is making that field by movement. No movement = no field energy. "Potential" energy isn't really "energy". It is just "possible" energy. Not currently happening, just "possible". So okay - this is a silly conversation, yes. I'm assuming from the discussion and people admissions that they didn't study these things really. Just bullshitting each other and their selves. And that is fun too. But I will leave this fun for now, as no time to continue it. I will check later. If someone sees and wants to know more about what I mention - can contact me in message here on DBs. -VonKrankenhaus

People get confused because they see character for "Qi" used is "氣" which suggest steam from cooking rice, and usually translated as "breath". But look in philosophical Taoism. They are not using that "breath" or "steam" character for "Qi". They are using "炁", which is the radical for "nothing" over the radical for fire. This usually means energy we cannot see, or that is not connected to an actual substance. Chinese medical books often DO mean "breath" when they use that character. They are studying organs, and first organ in "organ clock" (12 branches) is Lung. Means same thing as breathing does in western medicine. Philosophical and Cultivation texts are not using that character, and many time do NOT mean "breath". They are using older character and discussing a different thing. -VonKrankenhaus

Breathing happens as a result of a polarity, and creates other polarities in the body that also cause movements. The movement is energy. The substances inhaled (air, dust, whatever they may be) are just substances riding on that energy. So the "breath" as in the actual volume of physical air inhaled, is not the movement that causes the inhalation. It just the physical substances that were moved BY that movement. -VonKrankenhaus

The movement of the planet is Yang and the substance of the planet is Yin. Qi is the movement, not the substance. -VonKrankenhaus

By the "position of energy" you suggest that energy is a physical thing. But energy is just movement between the poles of any polarity. What "substance" moves in polarities? Many. Any. There is no specific substance that moves called qi or anything else. You are saying that energy is a specific physical "thing", which it isn't. "Substance" is physical things. Substance doesn't move by itself, but can impede movement. Qi is the movement itself, not whatever substances may be moved. ALL movement happens in polarities. Zhou Dunyi diagram shows how movement works in polarities. YinYang is non-commutative and non-reversible and non-reflexive because all movement is Yang and Yin is Stasis. If this were not true, all polarities would cancel-out or equate and there could be no physical things. -VonKrankenhaus

Yin qi is not movement. It is the resistance of accumulated substance to movement. ALL movement is Yang. Yin is Stasis, like "dead" is. -VonKrankenhaus