Bindi

I think if one just keeps working with and through the layer that presents itself, we’ll get there in the end, I like the kosha model for this. It’s ok if I don’t identify as the Self, because I’ll get there in the end. The causal body is equivalent to anandamaya kosha, not the Self but the last layer before the Self. Do the work that needs to be done within this kosha, which to me is removing vasanas, and the Self will be revealed, fully and permanently with no limitations. It’s enough, and needn’t be rushed, because so much will remain undone if these layers and their issues and gifts are ignored.

I could say I am informed by automatic processes, for me it’s dreams and kundalini perhaps, but there is an element of directed attention in working with what these automatic processes bring to my attention. Once kundalini was roused (after some forty five years or so of emotional/mental ‘clearing’ pre work), its role seems to be to bring samskaras bit by bit to the surface, in a more accelerated and insistent way than pre kundalini, which can be emotionally intense. Any prework done to dismantle samskaras really pays off during this process. Initially, I felt overwhelmed and lost in the emotive story, but after maybe a couple of years I learned to face these emotions directly, sitting with them and just feeling them. After pretty much staying with this process which culminated in a few moments of seemingly intense pain that felt like it had been there forever, it seems I shifted to also working with the vasanas at the causal body level, so the roots of karma. This work seems to be a lot more removed from the emotional pain level, vasanas are more at arms length and I’m able to move more into an objective observer role, with dreams still providing additional guidance, pointing out particular patterns or defenses that I mentally try to comprehend and address. At this stage, my main practice is observing conditioned thoughts or feelings as they arise, fully acknowledging them, and tracing their karmic threads as best I can. I believe this is the key to dissolving vasanas. I don’t think Kundalini energy directly clears the causal level it just helps clear emotional and mental knots in the subtle body making it possible to approach the causal body, which holds the underlying karmic vasanas, with greater clarity and objectivity. While it may be possible to address vasanas without kundalini, I believe the central channel’s unfolding is simply the most efficient and thorough design for this work.

While many systems allow for minor residual patterns to remain, a handful, like Krishnamurti, Theravada Buddhism, rigorous Advaita interpretations, and certain yoga philosophies, emphasise total purification as the hallmark of ultimate liberation. Clearly, we hold differing visions of what liberation entails. For me, the path to complete freedom necessitates the dissolution of all samskaras and vasanas, leaving no residue and no unresolved duality behind.

Kundalini is the higher, more refined, ‘spiritual’ energy that flows through the central channel after the side channels (Ida and Pingala) are purified. This process of purification and the rise of Kundalini is what leads to the realisation of nonduality via the union of Shiva and Shakti or stillness and vitality, which i believe would be equivalent to the union of heaven and earth in daoism. Definitely not equivalent to post heaven Qi which is a mundane energy, kundalini would be referred to as a primordial energy which is (usually) not active when we are born.

It is my understanding that jivanmukti happens after all vasanas are dissolved, you’re lowering the bar: "The seeker must destroy the vasanas and the karma associated with them. The mind, clouded by these vasanas, is not fit to realize the non-dual Self. Only when the vasanas are removed, can the Self shine forth in its full glory." - Vivekachudamani by Adi Shankara - “Liberation is the total destruction of vasanas.” - Vivekachudamani by Adi Shankara, verse 317 "The mind is a bundle of vasanas. When the vasanas are reduced to zero, the mind ceases to exist, and the Self is realized." - Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, Talk 528 I’m not chasing chimeras, kundalini is merely showing herself to be a very thorough clearer of all samskaras and all vasanas.

I think no system has the complete and final method, though I suspect early daoism or neidan might have been a complete system a long time ago. Like the story of the blind men and the elephant, every path thinks they have the right way, but they are most likely just feeling one section of the elephant.

It’s true my perspective is based on my own ongoing journey and insights rather than a claim of final attainment. My post reflects how I currently interpret the differences between these paths, informed by kundalini experience, study, and contemplation. That said, what’s your take on the difference between jivanmukti and nondual realisation?

In my view, the kundalini path to nonduality is qualitatively different from the self-inquiry path. Kundalini is unique in that it has the potential to address all layers of karma directly. This distinction highlights the difference between becoming a jivanmukta and being nondually realised: The nondually realised person transcends identification with karma and sees it as illusory but doesn’t necessarily aim to remove it. As a result, the karma remains intact, even if it is considered to be no longer binding. In contrast, kundalini is a transformative force that works to dissolve karma completely, making liberation not just a matter of perception but a permanent reality. IMO Kundalini isn’t merely a preference or an optional path, it’s part of the innate design of complete spiritual awakening.

I’ve watched quite a few NDE stories, quite fascinating and strong support to the idea that we continue.

I agree, identifying as one part of the True Self along the way isn’t a problem though. As young children most of us will identify as a physical body and rightly so, then later as the mind and maybe later subtle energy and the ‘jiva’ on the way to the True Self, but like the Jing > Qi > Shen model, I think progression is required so as to fully integrate each level.

Thank you for your considered thoughts on this! I agree this shift of consciousness can’t be forced, as it requires letting go rather than willing it from the mind - any effort immediately negates the shift because it’s still mind-based until this space appears as a sensation. A difference I see, though, between what I was referring to and your quotes is that your quotes overall seem to suggest a freed consciousness begins to align with the body’s natural activity without effort, resulting in a harmonious connection between mind, body, and consciousness. In contrast, I’m proposing a fundamentally different outcome: the alignment between an ‘original Spirit’ and kundalini energy (as well as mind, emotions, and body). So I agree, yes, there are definitely similarities, but also fundamental differences.

If there is indeed one Soul - and that may well be the case - it’s not been the focus of my journey. My path leads me toward integrating my consciousness with my individual Soul or Spirit. The connection my individual Soul or Spirit may or may not have beyond itself is not part of my current focus or purpose.

There are two aspects of the quote above from Johnson that I find particularly interesting. First, the idea of a subtle body storage area near the heart that holds unprocessed emotions until they’re ready to be addressed is fascinating. This perspective is intriguing not only from a psychological standpoint but also because it offers a practical explanation for why the Huang Ting, as an energy center, cannot be perceived until emotional backlog has been processed. To me it suggests a functional approach to the dynamics of the subtle body. Second, I see a distinction between Johnson’s perspective and the AI’s perspective in working with the Huang ting. It seems to me that being a pivotal stage to the ancient Chinese, perceiving the Huang Ting is framed as the result of alchemical work , rather than the method itself, as the AI quote appears to suggest. I think this is a fundamental issue in a lot of practices, expected outcomes are often used as the method, out of time and out of place. I’ve got to add, I don’t think it’s the fault of AI that focusing on the Huang ting is considered to be the method, this approach does seem to be what is suggested in known texts referring to the Huang ting.

In ancient Daoist alchemy, this point was known as Shenfu, the Spirit Storehouse, and is the place where Qi transforms into Shen. Today this point is commonly called the "Yellow Court" (Huangting) because it reflects the emotions stored from the Heart. In ancient Chinese medicine, the Heart was often referred to as the "Yellow Emperor" or "Suspended Gold." The responsibility of the Pericardium (known as the "Minister of Council", and the "Heart's Protector") was to store emotional experiences that the Heart was not yet ready to process into the emperor's courtyard. These emotions would stay outside the realm of the Heart within the courtyard (known as the "Yellow Court") until the Heart was ready to receive or face the information and experience (Figure 5.28). Historically, there has been much confusion and disagreement as to the actual location of the Yellow Court. This confusion stems from the understanding that the Yellow Court is also a generalized term referring to the energetic centers of Qi transformation (the Three Dantians). Some Daoist traditions maintain that the Yellow Court and MIDDLE Dantian are located in the same area, being both associated with the Heart. Other traditions assign the Yellow Court to the energetic functions of the Spleen. In ancient China, the transformation of Qi into Shen occurring in the Yellow Court was considered the pivotal stage in energetic alchemy. The Yellow Court was the location where the emergence of the spiritual embryo (Taixi) takes place. Therefore, the exact location of the Yellow Court was historically kept secret. Because of the overlap of energies existing between the Heart and Spleen, only a true Daoist initiate would be able to clearly differentiate the exact location of the Yellow Court. P. 223 Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy, Volume 1, by Professor Jerry Alan Johnson

It’s my ego self that has a problem with allowing everything to be swept away, my soul or spirit is entirely approving.