Bindi

It seems your experience led you to a nondual realisation, or something along those lines, a realisation that people buy into mental/emotional stories that aren’t real and that don’t need to be bought into (as well as your unwanted direct seeing). I have a different experience of kundalini rising, I have found that kundalini takes a long time at each dantian, resolving the underlying issues at each of these points. For example you mentioned anxiety below the Ming men point, in my experience kundalini experiences existential fear of death at the middle dantian, but if she can experience that anxiety in an mdt pool that has been pre filled, somehow the pool allows her to slow down or causes her to not burn, but there’s a reason dantians are part of the system. Doing these lower levels slowly also removes the need for emergency grounding later, as the lower parts of the system have already stabilised. I don’t think direct seeing is inherently problematic, I think it’s a positive part of the unfolding process if certain preconditions are met. Having said that my mother also had a very hard time with her direct seeing, so I’ve come across this before, she disliked how it made her feel, some sort of spaced outness, though what she saw i found very valuable. Our subtle energy systems are actually the biggest mystery there is to solve IMO, my working hypothesis at the moment is that the step from lower dantian energy being raised to the middle dantian is disassembled, and this is the sticking point in developing the entire system. IMO if that step gets resolved, then kundalini comes into her own.

I would expect something like this. I think kundalini would have to be present at ajna for longer for direct seeing to have remained and even increased. Do you have the sense that kundalini has descended and stayed down since this experience?

Thanks for sharing this BES 🙂 Did you notice any changes in either direct seeing when Ajna was pierced or spiritual knowledge when guru was pierced?

Out of interest, does anyone know what this line translates to, it’s from the external yellow court scripture: 三關既通，真炁自升

Ok, I’m hearing you @Antares and @johndoe2012 kundalini isn’t yuan qi. Is yuan qi the substance that is brought up from the LDT that is alchemically converted and fills the MDT?

In Neidan, Yuan Shen (Original Spirit) is the pure, untainted consciousness that existed before conditioning, before thoughts, emotions, or identification with form. It is beyond duality and is considered to be our true nature. In Shaiva and Kundalini traditions, Shiva is often described as pure, unchanging consciousness, the ultimate reality, beyond all fluctuation. He is the silent witness, the absolute stillness that remains when everything else dissolves. So there is a strong parallel between Yuan Shen and Shiva as both represent the undifferentiated, eternal self. I hate to say it but that makes kundalini a very good candidate for yuan qi. In Neidan, Yuan Qi (Original Qi) is the fundamental, pre-heaven energy that animates life and drives the transformation process. It is the primordial, unconditioned energy that exists before differentiation into Yin and Yang. This strongly parallels Shakti (Kundalini energy) in the Shaiva tradition. Shakti is the dynamic, active force that awakens and moves toward unity with Shiva, she is beyond Ida and Pingala polarity, and she is the bridge between form and formlessness. I think the end point is different though, kundalini paths tend to go out from the crown, whereas neidan paths tend towards alignment with the body and this is a huge difference, where one could easily see them as therefore completely different, but I think it’s more bad practice (in kundalini yoga) that is to blame. Regarding Yin and Yang as Ida and Pingala, I understand why you might resist this comparison based on traditional frameworks. However, from my own experience, both through dreams and multiple direct visions, I have strong reasons to see Ida as black and Pingala as white. While this may challenge a rigid interpretation of Yin and Yang, it aligns with my understanding of how these energies function in the body.

What specifically do you envision as the end result of Daoist neidan, versus the end result of kundalini activation?

I think the Indian model is pretty accurate, overlaying Indian and daoist models I’d say ida and pingala are equivalent to yin and yang though daoists don’t place yin and Yang specifically in the subtle body. To me they are channels that run from the bottom of the body to the top like the Indian system. There doesn’t seem to be an equivalent energy to kundalini in daoism, and from my perspective that’s a shortcoming. Kundalini is not actually activated Yang qi from pingala sent into the central channel, it’s an actual ‘consciousness’ that is actually asleep in the lower part of the body that ideally is awakened when both Ida and Pingala are cleared and flowing. That’s my understanding, what yoga people do I don’t know personally, but I am not drawn to what I consider to be forceful methods, breathing, locks, trying to force energies, so I’m not defending yoga practices.

Previously I was speaking from personal experience regarding kundalini and the central channel, and no I’m not particularly interested in the original texts, I’m more interested in finding my own personal path. I used AI because it was quick and easy, reflecting my relative lack of interest in these texts. I’m happy with the AI references, if you’re not that’s up to you.

You could look up the references in my post and prove they're wrong instead of dismissing them with a blanket distrust of AI, which disproves nothing. I do highly doubt that the British influenced indian concepts of Kundalini.

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Quick ChatGPT check: Kundalini in Classical Texts a) The Upanishads (c. 1000 BCE – 500 CE) The earliest references to kundalini appear in the Upanishads, particularly the Yoga-Kundalini Upanishad, Shandilya Upanishad, and Hatha Yoga Pradipika. These texts describe kundalini as a dormant energy at the base of the spine that rises through sushumna nadi when awakened. Yoga-Kundalini Upanishad (c. 9th-10th century CE) "When the sleeping kundalini is awakened by the grace of the guru, then all the lotuses and knots are pierced, and the prana rises upward through the sushumna." b ) Goraksha Samhita (10th-11th century CE) Written by Gorakhnath, this text discusses the awakening of kundalini and its movement through the spine. "Kundalini, when awakened, moves through the sushumna and reaches Sahasrara, where the yogi experiences supreme bliss." c) Hatha Yoga Pradipika (14th century but based on older teachings) Swami Swatmarama, compiling earlier tantric and yogic traditions, describes sushumna nadi, kundalini, and their role in enlightenment. "When the sleeping serpent (kundalini) is awakened, she moves upward through sushumna and all the chakras are pierced."

I don’t think so As I wrote in my response to Lairg, I don’t think that kundalini yoga will achieve the right circulation either, as these yogis seem to get stuck grasping at the crown, and not gaining real satisfaction in the long term from this. I took a very personal road, time will tell if this road is the right one to achieve full alignment of my three bodies, physical subtle and causal. My journey isn’t finished, my insight isn’t absolute, but I can discuss my perspective as I understand it at this moment. For your part, doubting my claims is entirely valid, I’ve doubted all claims of achievement myself, I think when someone has achieved a final state they should be able to prove it satisfactorily.

I agree with your general thrust, and only feel the need to clarify my position. The clearing that has to be done before kundalini is in the two side channels, these are mental and emotional complexes, when kundalini is forced I believe it ends up clearing the side channels as well as the central channel and this is Gopi Krishna’s experience, it’s unnecessarily dangerous and damaging, and I doubt this sort of forcing even brings one to the ‘Self’ which after all is the aim of any method. The central channel is a different matter, this is the channel that I believe kundalini clears, this is the channel it’s not possible to clear without kundalini, this is the channel where all underlying karma is rooted out. Think about it logically, after the side channels are cleared kundalini is naturally awakened, and as she rises she can’t help but clean. The possibility of kundalini awakening in the central channel and having no karma to clear and rising immediately and effortlessly is a trillion to one, you would need to be born with no karma, which is so rare as to be impossible. What I have found through experience is that doing things in what I consider to be the right order, clearing the psychological level of emotions and thoughts, at the same time creates the subtle body infrastructure that will go on to be used by kundalini as she makes her way upwards, allowing that progress to not be overwhelming. I had guidance in how to create certain subtle energy infrastructure, which made it relatively easy for me, I think without guidance it would be a lot harder on a person, I personally can’t even imagine how some things would be formed that are required, so the whole topic is quite complicated, but once emotional and mental complexes are resolved, and this subtle body infrastructure is in place, kundalini does exactly what she needs to do in the central channel. In general I would also say that I disagree with the idea that kundalini goes to the crown and efforts to stay there are actually the goal. Again from experience kundalini does travel up to the crown but then falls back down to the centre point of the body, where she waits patiently for the gifts of the crown to come to her, think of a tree whose fruits ripen in their own time, and drop down when they are ready. I think people have been making a huge error in staying in samadhi trying to ‘steal’ these fruits by forcing kundalini to stay in their crown for x amount of time, as long as they remain in samadhi. Not having followed a natural course, they crave the fruits and steal what isn’t ripe, which doesn’t lead to any real satisfaction. True satisfaction I believe comes with aligning with the Soul in the causal body, the fruits that fall when ripe just facilitate this alignment, they’re part of the overall system.

Kundalini isn’t something I 'practice' like a technique, it’s a natural unfolding. I could stop engaging with it, but that wouldn’t mean kundalini stops, it would just mean I stop paying attention to what’s happening internally. When kundalini, an entirely natural consciousness that inhabits the central channel when awakened organically, has full reign, it’s not something that can or should be stopped, that would be like saying, "Stop feeling or stop thinking for a few months and see what happens." It just doesn’t work that way. I understand that kundalini is not part of your belief system, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a fundamental part of how consciousness integrates and transforms—it’s just something you haven’t encountered yet. Maybe take some time to read about kundalini before trying to debate it out of existence. Gopi Krishna’s experience is a good example—he forced the process and paid the consequences, but it was unstoppable. I’ve also found Swamij insightful, as he emphasises the importance of clearing the side channels first. https://swamij.com/kundalini-awakening.htm