-
Content count
2,903 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
5
Everything posted by Bindi
-
Again referring to the concept of incoherent EM fields, this quote below from Stirling underscores the popular nondualist view IMO - that itâs just illusion, which of course doesnât really work if oneâs EM field is actually incoherent.
-
Ken Wilber on nonduality and moral stages: Vijay: During these sessions, you discuss two relatively independent interior developmental aspects: states and stages of consciousness. So a Zen master could train and develop in states of consciousness â ultimately becoming âenlightenedâ â and yet may simultaneously view reality from a low developmental stage because their awakening doesnât guarantee stage development, e.g. heâs enlightened (non-dual state) and homophobic (mythic-traditional stage). Something I often think about is that while it may be a huge achievement to recognise the true nature of reality, if you had to choose one aspect to be developed, surely pushing consciousness through to higher stages would be more important than states? I understand that having them both developed is ideal, but I would love to hear your take on this. Ken: This is definitely a head-scratcher. Both of them have so many incredibly important advantages, itâs really hard to choose one. Stages are how we grow up; states are how we wake up. And as important as states (and the whole notion of Awakening or Enlightenment) is, the example you bring up is crucialâyou can move through states, all the way to ultimate Nonduality, and still be stuck in some fairly low stages. We all know mystics that are incredibly deep and yet also very narrow-minded. Studies into stages of moral development show that they move from egocentric (whatâs right is what I say is right) to ethnocentric (whatâs right is what my group, tribe, nation says is right) to worldcentric (whatâs right is what is fair for all people, regardless of race, color, sex, or creed), to kosmocentric (including all sentient beings). You can be at any of those stages and nonetheless develop a oneness with everything in the world at that stage. But if that stage is, say, mythic-literal, it has an ethnocentric orientation (âthe chosen peoplesâ), and if youâre not one of the chosen group, you are destined for hellâand in some cases, itâs even okay to kill ânonbelievers,â because theyâre heathens without a soul. Killing infidels is a career promotion for mythic fundamentalists. Jihad or âholy warâ becomes oneâs major duty. Mystical experiences of oneness only deepen the feeling of the stage youâre at. And this, of course, is a disaster. This is why, with all the spiritual experiences that ancient traditional cultures had, they also hadâwith virtually no exceptionsâslavery, torture, were mostly patriarchal and sexist and xenophobic. People have often wondered why all the old-time âreally religiousâ cultures were also some of the most utterly barbaric. Itâs because of having access to some very high states but not very high stages (hence the caste system, slavery, sexism, etc.). https://awaken.com/2016/11/the-future-of-spirituality-an-interview-with-ken-wilber/
-
Iâve posted about a room in chaos a few times, and Iâve never really known how to understand that metaphor fully, but coherent and incoherent EM fields is a good candidate. Iâve always associated the room in chaos with Yin energies, and Iâve always understood that it has to be entered into by consciousness and put into order by standing back from it, though most importantly It has to be found and entered first before standing back from it (otherwise it would be spiritual bypassing). This is the post that describes that room in chaos, which I have previously thought most likely refers to the right hemisphere of the brain, and what I am thinking today, is likely to refer to the incoherent frequencies typical of most of humanity. I suspect the other room, the linear pattern, might be intention which has to face in the right direction? Anyway, EM fields seem like quite a good way to consider how emotions and energy and intention etc might interact.
-
Another quote from the same article: This could be the basis of the âmoralâ attainment that I feel is missing in nondual awakening, going beyond impartiality, maybe evidence that someone has authentically arrived at the highest possible expression of humanness.
-
I looked her up and found a very interesting article, Health on the Edge, well worth reading, Iâve posted one quote below.
-
"There must be a great battle going on inwardly all the time until the Self is realized. This battle is symbolically spoken of in scriptural writings as the fight between God and Satan." - Ramana Maharshi Hang on, this is what I believe, so dualistic - Please explain⌠"No one succeeds without effort. Mind control is not one's birthright. The successful few owe their success to their perseverance." - Ramana Maharshi Effort? Successful few??? Isnât it no effort, and success for every second person? "Intense effort is necessary until the I-thought disappears completely in the Heart [Self] and all the vasanas [egoistic tendencies] and samskaras [mental impressions and psychological imprints] are fried and do not revive again." - Ramana Maharshi Can we set the bar by this version of nonduality, please please please, unless what Ramana is talking about is something beyond nondualiity, like Self realisation.
-
Re the spiritual quest causing problems and suffering, I do completely agree, if you donât go through some then the heart isnât being cleared. I like to think I cleared my heart in a slow way so less acute suffering, but plenty of suffering nonetheless. Maybe thereâs more to come, ouch
-
I know there are female perpetrators but statistically they are rare. It might be to do with the level of damage a man can inflict on a woman, women arenât perfect, but they donât tend to bruise and batter men, statistically speaking.
-
Can you give me a link to this? Iâve read an interview she gave but Iâd like to see what you mean exactly.
-
I think there is a lot of difference between âenlightenedâ and creating an âimmortal bodyâ, though I do agree there is nothing more beneficial to oneself and others than doing this. BHIKKHU BODHI on morality: Some sort of moral code has to exist before we ourselves become intrinsically moral or thereâd be mayhem. I think any system that hasnât gone far enough to get in touch with intrinsic morality is half-baked and dangerous, and this is one of the reasons why I dislike ânondualityâ as the end result.
-
There is no connection between morality and non-dual awakening, but you prefer morality and therefore create a scenario in which morality remains alongside nonduality.
-
Yikes!
-
Are you trying to have your nondual cake and eat it too?
-
I donât know if âlight bodyâ equals âimmortal spiritual bodyâ, I tend to think not. Thereâs the astral light body but this is quite limited, I feel the immortal spiritual body must be something more than this.
-
If it is accepted that we are male/female as in Yin and Yang, I think men are more comfortable expressing the Yang side of themselves and women are more comfortable expressing the Yin side of themselves, very broadly speaking. Then the problem becomes that teachings tend to have that polarised spin to them, and unbiased truth gets lost. Though some formal systems of spiritual development make some sense to me, in general Iâve thrown everything out and prefer to start from scratch. Sexual abuse in patriarchal spiritual systems, surely more the male factor than the specific system, and in Tibet I gather it was overtly written into the spiritual system.
-
I accept that, but I thought Steve was speaking more generically about âwisdomâ, not as a specifically Buddhist concept, and it was the emphasis on discriminating in the earlier quote that made me think of vijnanamaya kosha. Of course I may be wrong.
-
Wisdom is not primordial, it is a subtle level of perception, vijnanamaya kosha represents the higher mind, the faculty of wisdom, which lies underneath the processing, thinking, reactive mind. Needless to say what I am saying is correct, though you can believe whatever you like.
-
The same concept is written here https://www.existentialbuddhist.com/tag/nonduality/ I am no Buddhist scholar, but this makes me wonder⌠Bhikkhu Bodhi stressed that discrimination was fundamental in the Buddhaâs method, and it strikes me that discrimination is the key to the fourth kosha: The fourth of the five koshas is vijnanamaya koshaâthe wisdom sheath. Vijnanamaya encompasses intuition and intellect. It can be thought of as the witness mind, or that aspect of our consciousness that is not entangled in what we are doing or thinking, but rather, acutely aware of what we are doing and thinking. Did the Buddha bring full consciousness to this kosha but not the next one along, anandamaya kosha, thus having nothing to say about the nondual qualities of anandamaya kosha, nor about the âSelfâ which lies deeper than both.
-
Sequel to the previous essay: In the domain of wisdom the Ariyan Dhamma and the non-dual systems⌠move in contrary directions. In the non-dual systems the task of wisdom is to break through the diversified appearances (or the appearance of diversity) in order to discover the unifying reality that underlies them. Concrete phenomena, in their distinctions and their plurality, are mere appearance, while true reality is the One: either a substantial Absolute (the Atman, Brahman, the Godhead, etc.), or a metaphysical zero (Sunyata, the Void Nature of Mind, etc.). For such systems, liberation comes with the arrival at the fundamental unity in which opposites merge and distinctions evaporate like dew. In the Ariyan Dhamma wisdom aims at seeing and knowing things as they really are (yathabhutananadassana). Hence, to know things as they are, wisdom must respect phenomena in their precise particularity. Wisdom leaves diversity and plurality untouched. It instead seeks to uncover the characteristics of phenomena, to gain insight into their qualities and structures. It moves, not in the direction of an all-embracing identification with the All, but toward disengagement and detachment, release from the All⌠Spiritual systems are colored as much by their favorite similes as by their formulated tenets. For the non-dual systems, two similes stand out as predominant. One is space, which simultaneously encompasses all and permeates all yet is nothing concrete in itself; the other is the ocean, which remains self-identical beneath the changing multitude of its waves. The similes used within the Ariyan Dhamma are highly diverse, but one theme that unites many of them is acuity of vision â vision which discerns the panorama of visible forms clearly and precisely, each in its own individuality⌠https://buddho.org/dhamma-and-non-duality/
-
BHIKKHU BODHI Dhamma and Non-duality One of the most challenging issues facing Theravada Buddhism in recent years has been the encounter between classical Theravada vipassana meditation and the ânon-dualisticâ contemplative traditions best represented by Advaita Vedanta and Mahayana Buddhism. Responses to this encounter have spanned the extremes, ranging from vehement confrontation all the way to attempts at synthesis and hybridization⌠The teaching of the Buddha as found in the Pali canon does not endorse a philosophy of non-dualism of any variety, nor, I would add, can a non-dualistic perspective be found lying implicit within the Buddhaâs discourses⌠When we investigate our experience exactly as it presents itself, we find that it is permeated by a number of critically important dualities with profound implications for the spiritual quest. The Buddhaâs teaching, as recorded in the Pali Suttas, fixes our attention unflinchingly upon these dualities and treats their acknowledgment as the indispensable basis for any honest search for liberating wisdom. It is precisely these antitheses â of good and evil, suffering and happiness, wisdom and ignorance â that make the quest for enlightenment and deliverance such a vitally crucial concern⌠Thus the Theravada makes the antithesis of samsara and Nibbana the starting point of the entire quest for deliverance. Even more, it treats this antithesis as determinative of the final goal, which is precisely the transcendence of samsara and the attainment of liberation in Nibbana. Where Theravada differs significantly from the Mahayana schools, which also start with the duality of samsara and Nirvana, is in its refusal to regard this polarity as a mere preparatory lesson tailored for those with blunt faculties, to be eventually superseded by some higher realization of non-duality. From the standpoint of the Pali Suttas, even for the Buddha and the arahants suffering and its cessation, samsara and Nibbana, remain distinct. Spiritual seekers still exploring the different contemplative traditions commonly assume that the highest spiritual teaching must be one which posits a metaphysical unity as the philosophical foundation and final goal of the quest for enlightenment. Taking this assumption to be axiomatic, they may then conclude that the Pali Buddhist teaching, with its insistence on the sober assessment of dualities, is deficient or provisional, requiring fulfillment by a nondualistic realization. For those of such a bent, the dissolution of dualities in a final unity will always appear more profound and complete⌠https://buddho.org/dhamma-and-non-duality/
-
Iâm not saying his tears arenât genuine, but you donât need ânondual awakeningâ to cry. That or heâs actually just able to be honest with himself and others and knows he hasnât âarrivedâ yet. Does love and compassion require being ânondually awakeâ? Is love and compassion always evident in the nondually awakened? Can you be nondually awake and sexually abusive, or condone sexual abuse? I thought morality and nondual status were not intrinsically connected? Openness to receiving is not an achievement in itself, discretion is also important, people are open to cult leaders, to negative energy input, to evil leaders. âOne has to be open to receiveâ is lovely and fluffy but not necessarily wise.
-
-
Itâs like we all wear underwear, but nondualists like to wear their underwear on the outside???
-
The Dalai Lama doesnât claim to be either enlightened or awakened, he considers himself to be a simple monk whoâs done some practice, had some realisation, and made some progress. This isnât a picture of a nondualist with emotions, this is a picture of your assumptions regarding the Dalai Lama.
-
No, the only light bodies Iâve come across were the jeffians, they also thought they were beyond the highest in terms of achievement, my experience with them was that they had developed their astral bodies and mistook that for something ultimate. This is why I asked dwai what the use of developing a light body was, I meant an astral light body. Golden colour would relate to something I am interested in.