Bindi

This seemed relevant to the value of thought: “Throughout my many years of training, my teachers have always reminded me that, "The imagination leads the Mind, and the Mind leads the Qi.” - Jerry Alan Johnson

I’ve always seen it referred to as the trachea, for example in the Neijing tu Diagram. I still wonder with this text though if people came along and decided it meant something, like the 12 storied tower = trachea, but was this meant by the author? the one foot area sounds to me like the whole head, the square inch then in the middle of the head. For my own personal reasons I take this to refer to the pineal gland and the area around it. The master gland is the pituitary, this is now known to manage all the other glands, but what if this was information from inner sight, that could easily be represented by a square inch in a square foot area. I have come to believe that the glands are very important in the neidan journey. Yes agreed, pre-heaven Jing looks like a later developed concept. I’ve ordered Olsen’s book, and then I should order Saso’s.

Reversing letters isn’t a secret code though I was thinking today that if love is a choice, it hasn’t achieved the state of ‘wuwei’.

No, I have developed my own dream work methods, like you not Jungian. I learnt more from reading Edgar Cayce and Denise Linn, and attending one seminar.

I’d be interested to hear what you mean when you say the “golden aspects”.

Your post just made me laugh, I liked your attitude I read one Jung book, “memories, dreams, reflections”, and that was enough, my main interest was in dream interpretation and working with dreams, which is intrinsically shadow work anyway.

Yes, I agree, metaphorically speaking pure water that has been contaminated by mud. For me this is the active part of the path, and an area where effort is needed. I don’t personally believe in letting mud settle at all, I prefer a more psychoanalytical approach, akin to climbing up a high and very steep mountain, and not stopping until you get to the top. It was a Western Buddhist and psychotherapist who coined the term spiritual bypassing after noticing this tendency in Western Buddhist groups. I rather like the idea of a grounded Western spirituality made to order for us and our particular Western mind-set, having as it’s starting point the thoroughly Western concept of psychoanalysis or psychotherapy, and going from there. Yes, I can see this, the question is really what to do about it, what method do you employ out of the hundreds that are on offer. Honestly, the three dantian model works very well for me, first unstick the mental and emotional entanglement in the belly, then at the heart level, then at the head level. This was the path that was most natural for me anyway. If you get it right and there is free circulation through all the centres and channels, well then... Yes indeed

絳官重樓十二級， 官室之中五黑集， 赤城之子中池立， 下有長城玄谷色。 長生要妙 房中急， 棄捐淫欲專守精， 寸田尺宅可理生， 繫系子長留心安寧。 觀志遊神三奇靈， 閑暇無事心太平。 The Zhong Lou in the Red Palace has twelve bracelets. Within the Precious Jade House, the Five Color’s assemble. Abandon lustful desires and focus intently on the Child’s Essence. Constantly restrain the difficult Child so the heart can be peaceful. Direct the conscious will so that the Spirit can quickly travel to become three extraordinary immortal spirits. Coursing about amongst them, there will be no problem in the mind for acquiring the Great Peace. - Olson The storied tower of Chiang Kung, the Dark Scarlet Palace, has twelve steps [the trachea, N.T.]. The five breath energies assemble in the palace. The prince of the Red Town stands in the Middle Pond. Beneath it, there are the long walls and the colour of Hsuan Ku, the Dark and Mysterious Valleys. The important wonder for longevity is to guard the urges of sex. One should renounce all lusts and desires to concentrate on guarding the essence. A square inch Field and a foot long Residence can manage life. By tying oneself to the Prince to keep him to stay long, one’s mind will be peaceful and calm. If one can observe the will and keep the spirits roam about in relaxation, the three wonders will be quick and miraculous. One will be at ease, at leisure and free from troubles, and one’s mind will enjoy great peace. -Huang In a palace made of 12 continuous stores jade hall in the middle collects the 5 colours and red spirit manifests itself in the central pool. Underneath there is a Great Wall surrounding a profound valley. Longevity demands carefulness with the room of desires underneath. Abandon investing to lust, concentrate on the essence of your essence, Pre-Heaven Jing. The one inch entry within a one-foot land of one’s face is so able to govern human life. Concentration on the formation of one’s young self makes possible for the heart to stay at peace. Prevent will from dissipating, but let it join three wonderful spirits. Let it walk between them, and there would be no problem keeping the heart peaceful and content. - Archangelis and Lanying

Yes, I think so. It is also the medium in which alchemical things are produced, and it needs to be alchemically refined, but it is the foundation. This is also a point of difference between Buddhism and the older Neidan texts, the Buddhist lets the water settle and the mud sink to the bottom and then leaves the water unstirred, the old Daoist texts say clean or clear the ‘xin’/heart-mind.

Cleansox mentioned “insubstantial water” as being the substance worked with in neidan in another thread, instead of commenting on it in that thread I wanted to bring it here because in dream work water relates to the state of the emotions, dirty water, wild water, no water, it’s like an analogy for what I perceive as the emotional channel and the state of it. I don’t know if people who have studied under neidan masters would agree that “insubstantial water” = emotions, but I thought this was worth pursuing as part of this topic.

Tulpas may be equated with the neidan ‘spirit child’ that is formed, which must be nurtured within and not let out until fully matured. Honestly, I think some ancient Chinese person did exactly this, and the echoes of it were captured in some of the oldest Chinese texts. I agree it has to be done in the right way, by going through the shadows and the world of darkness, knowing the white but keeping to the black, not seeking power, merely seeking emotional reintegration in the dark places until the light returns. When the motivation becomes muddied, maybe this is when the problems start.

I agree with Jung that “the sense of feeling... has become atrophied in our contemporary culture because of the massive emphasis on thinking“, and I have thought about this quite a lot over time, and have come up with a theory to account for it. To my mind thinking may have started to become dominant when we began to communicate in complex sentences, thinking looks to me like a ‘superpower’, and so much has been accomplished because of it. But then the imbalance set in as emotions couldn’t accomplish all that thinking could accomplish and were accorded a second place. The cultural atrophying of the sense of feeling is noticed by some individuals, maybe even many, but only some individuals choose to actively fight against the lack of that flow, and they are the ones who are prepared to open themselves up to their vast store of unfelt emotions within. The question for me though is what might re-establishing emotional flow alongside our mental superpower look like? To my mind if speech caused us to evolve mentally, then there must be a counterbalancing evolution possible for the humble feeling. Once the normal atrophied sense of feeling is restored, what emotional superpower might then be realised?

Thanks for posting this ^ Cleansox. The author of your quote (Saso?) takes a liberty in translating the ‘four’ as four directions and organs, and then go on to list five organs and directions. I think this text needs more and better translators, that’s the only way out for non-Chinese interested in it.

You referred to this line: The four interests me, Huang sees four as referring to the four directions, Archangelis and Lanying add the word rivers to make it four rivers to fit with their concept of the sea of origin. The original line is: 明 堂 四 達 法 海 源， Bright Hall four to reach law sea origin [Ming Tang] I’d love to know how else this line could be translated, including the word law, which neither translator seems to have taken on board. My best understanding might be “From the Bright Hall [Mingtang] Four reach the source of the law.” Where have all our Chinese translators gone? @Taoist Texts, @dawei?

Most people Seem to think that kundalini is intelligent, I see it as blind, which would explain why there are so many problems with it. If the spirit, or the spiritual mind, is developed first, it can access kundalini properly and guide it with no dramas and to good effect. To me this means working with the Dan Tians first, and clearing the channels, not with the aid of kundalini, but to prepare for kundalini. Just thinking aloud here, if part of kundalini’s purpose is to destroy the ego connection to the mundane mind, I’d like to have a place to inhabit within my spirit before that connection is destroyed, which is only possible if the spirit has been fully developed, and I am fully identified with it.

SOL means? Going on what I think it means maybe we are SOL, humanity is in a pretty bad way. If the microcosm reflects the microcosm and vice versa, our unintegrated or dispersed psyche might then reflect our unintegrated or dispersed spirit. However, I do recognise a part of myself that has knowledge of the spirit’s blueprint, and without that underlying knowledge we would indeed have no hope. So I’d like to say my soul has this knowledge, but I could as easily say my higher consciousness has this knowledge, or my Higher Self etc. I agree we’d really need to agree on what terms mean before being able to discuss them. I was also thinking that Christianity believes in being born with original sin, so there is a precedent for this sort of idea, that there is something fundamentally amiss on a spiritual level at birth.

“Understand your own essence and harmonise Yin and Yang, like thunder and lightning, the two are mystically bound. Between the East point on the right and the West Point on the left is my room.” “Observe all from heaven and earth, to generate virgin new self-existence.” “Surrender concept of oneself to ancient Yin to re-establish own image.” ”Connect to your mysterious force from above, and let the clear spirit cross in.” From here. My name is Bindi and I am a Daoist.

I hear what you’re saying, but I’m going to revert to my earlier notion, that the Spirit within us is torn apart, and does actually have to be put back together by ourselves, this small self, and this small self does have to understand the nature of reality to do it - and when it is reassembled the Spirit within can indeed share gifts from itself with us. This just feels more like my lived reality to me, I believe I could find support for my perspective in the neidan texts I prefer than in Buddhist or Vedic texts which posit your perspective.

Can’t Spirit present itself to me in a form that can be assimilated, so that it can cross over into me?

From the external Yellow Court text When the Jade pearl is solidified, it will be refined endlessly in what I can only imagine is the circulation of kundalini. If you don’t believe that this Jade pearl can exist in the first place, this sentence will be meaningless to you of course, and different people will interpret it differently, but I have first hand experience of this pearl in its two earlier forms as found in the lower dantians and I trust that this third form, the Jade form, can be generated and it makes sense that it will be continually refined. Maybe this is introducing something too obscure, but it does underscore the point that this stuff is complicated, and I see no reason to limit my opinion to consensual wisdom

FWIW as I don’t actually know, but I reckon kundalini would remain relevant, coursing through the system endlessly. From what I’ve read, and please correct me if I’m wrong, Tibetan Buddhism’s belief is that Kundalini burns through something and then disappears.

In the end, I imagine if the energetic matrix is operating properly, the higher consciousness stream would become embodied and a natural integrated part of the entire body-mind system, no purposeful meditation to enter that stream would be needed? This is the point at which I feel kundalini would be relevant, again not something I know about yet. Kundalini activation before this point is what most people experience and refer to.

Yes, the energetic matrix is the vessel, that was what I was meaning, but I see this matrix as very complex and exact, which seems to be in opposition to most posters. To me it is a whole lot more than just open the central channel, though this is part of it, and I’m pretty sure I differ in my ideas of how to open the central channel - for me it’s work on the two side channels and through each of the chakras that leads to the central channel opening. I probably also differ in my ideas of the nature of the True Self, I don’t even really know what I think about it yet because I haven’t had first hand experience of an operational True Self yet, I’m still working on the matrix If the matrix is not fully developed, can this True Self or True nature be partially expressed, or not at all, is it all or nothing??

I like this, a matrix can be developed, or even is needed to be developed, to realise Self. In neidan, a True Man (sic) or True Self is realised and nurtured, via an energetic matrix that is carefully constructed. The nature of this True Self may be compatible with the concept of Buddha nature.

What does ‘achieved Nei Dan’ mean?