Bindi

It is unnatural to the mind and to the normal developmental process, but perfectly natural from the developing subtle body’s perspective.

Neidan is the most ridiculous method I’ve ever heard of, yet if natural unfoldment is achieved neidan is exactly what happens, starting with the lower dantian. And paradoxically that natural unfoldment has to be exactly directed - go figure 😄

I see a lot of assumptions here. Gotama believed that the only way to truly end suffering was to not be born again, but this is ultimately just Gotama’s answer to the problem of suffering, it’s not intrinsically true. Another assumption is that “All such perpetual spirit beings have their own karma and have to still come back to what is called a karma bhumi to exhaust the karma to become fully liberated“. It is just as likely that these ‘perpetual spirit beings’ need to exhaust all of their karma before attaining their ‘perpetual spirit’ state. On what basis do you assume your view? More likely Buddhist enlightenment is not even the aim of these Daoists, and is not seen as an exalted achievement by them. For example I might believe that to a Daoist to not be reborn is to fail in the effort to fulfil human potential which entails realising Xian-hood. I’ve never believed you can be a Daoist and a Buddhist and an Advaitan, something in each system will clash with the others, and you might have to make a choice in the end.

In the original, "Je pense, donc je suis"

Agreed. When siddhis appear, especially I think when they were developed in a past life and are not understandable in the context of this life, the mind can use any justification it likes in its effort to make sense of them. Proper guidance or maturity would see the nature of the siddhi in the big picture, and not mistake the siddhi for the end goal.

The Quanzhen master and founder] Wang Zhe’s own writings refer to two men – one Taoist and one Buddhist – who appear to have given him some guidance... [He] appears to have been particularly familiar with two major Mahayana Buddhist scriptures – the Diamond Sutra and the Heart Sutra. He was probably also familiar with some Chan literature... However, as Hachiya has astutely observed, Wang Zhe did not abide by the thoroughgoing negation and non-assertion of Mahayana Buddhist philosophy. Fond as he was of borrowing Buddhist language to preach detachment from this provisional, fleeting world of samsara, Wang Zhe ardently believed in the eternal, universal Real Nature/Radiant Spirit that is the ground and wellspring of consciousness (spirit, shen, xing), and vitality (qi, ming) within all living beings. This to him was not “empty”(lacking inherent existence); it was fully Real (zhen). From The Teachings and Practices of the Early Quanzhen Taoist Masters by Stephen Eskildsen (pages 6-7)

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To me, I guess there is a chain of command, dao -> congenital virtuous nature -> the mind of thoughts and emotions. So to me the bright mirror would be congenital virtuous nature which is a reflection of the dao, and the mind (and heart and ldt) would be where the dust and mud have gotten lodged, eclipsing congenital virtuous nature. I have nothing against the mind, if it’s operating correctly within its systems specifications. Just my thoughts as well 🙂

Not from any particular view, just from my own, to me being controlled by thoughts, emotions, etc, is to be controlled by what freeform referred to earlier as ‘acquired personal nature’. I agree that this is the case, we are controlled by these things, but I don’t believe there is a need to control this acquired personal nature, or that this is the goal. For me our consciousness is mistakenly identified with acquired personal nature, and needs to somehow get past this and identify with ‘congenital virtuous nature’ which is the sapling or seed hidden within the nature of the door. In this sense, your equation “samsara and nirvana are fundamentally the same” is not true, as acquired personal nature and congenital virtuous nature are not fundamentally the same. @ freeform and @ walker, If this is far different from the daoist view I stand to be corrected 🙂

Thankyou link for sharing your understanding of the situation, very much appreciated.

There is a man who is recorded as doing this, St Seraphim of Sarov (1754 - 1833). His face lit up as bright light according to a witness, he could apparently read peoples minds and ‘knew what was in their hearts’ before they told him, and he is said to have been able to heal miraculously. It’s from another tradition (he was a hermit monk) but these are some of the signs I would look for in anyone who claims they have ‘arrived.’

isn’t congenital nature the equivalent of the yangshen spirit?

This is how I see it, yuan qi (formed by bringing yuan Jing up to the heart) needs to be brought up and meet with yuan shen in the udt. The yang shen exists where these two meet in the udt, and is nourished by an endless supply of yuan Jing -> yuan qi which has been established in the two lower dantians. The yang shen is connected to the dao, and develops in accord with the dao once this system is put into motion.

No I don’t really believe it, I think I could tell if someone were channeling energy at me, I was more questioning what wizz believes, which might actually be different to what Jeff believes, cos Jeff states repeatedly that he doesn’t channel or project energy. Do his defenders even have his story straight? The issue with knowing anyway but asking permission is a puzzle that I would like Jeff to try and clarify, because as it stands it doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Hmmm, I thought it might be a devious way to not own his own shadow, make other people say what he wants them to say, and then accuse them of authoring it. Or tell people what they’re doing to him in some other dimension that they have no way of disproving. Not to deliberately mess with them, only to protect his own ego, and keep his own shadow hidden, in this case deviant sexuality.

Jeff channels energy to everyone here on the forum, simply because he accesses the forum? I recall he said he knows the energy of everyone posting on this thread, but it’s all very confusing - why would he need to ask permission to scan someone if he already has access to this information, and why would he channel energy to everyone here when most don’t want anything to do with his energy, and haven’t requested it. Unless the channeling is subconscious, and he has no control over it?

How do you distinguish between ‘astral level’ and ‘light level’? I get the sense that on the astral level, you can project an astral body which cannot interact with the physical world, but can interact with the astral level of other people, and nothing actually real exists on this level besides the mind. beyond the astral I like the word causal, on this level what you project can interact with the physical world, you can leave a handprint in a rock, you can appear visibly in front of someone, etc. The realised man in neidan projects multiple selves out into the world. Jesus healed peoples physical form, often at a distance. Jeff of course can’t do any of these things. Show me something along these lines, and I’d believe you or he had really achieved something beyond astral fantasy. the sexual sensation is because the kundalini doesn’t rise above .the lower chakras. If you didn’t get all the sexual stuff that most get, it’s either because it went higher for you initially, or it didn’t get released at all.

I think you believe it’s just verbal manipulation, but my interactions with Jeff lead me to believe what I posted. I do appreciate that everyone can voice their opinions on this thread though. There have been issues around Jeff for a very long time, I have heard the issues started in AYP, and were to do with his energy ‘experiments’ there.

My best bet, Jeff is ‘astral capable’, and has populated his astral world (which has no underlying reality) with gods and goddesses, and he can enable others to be astral capable. In this state polarity seems to be able to be affected, so this becomes the ‘work’ that is concentrated on, not because it’s intrinsically useful, but because it is noticeable, and this can then be spun in any way that pops into his brain, until he has built up this huge concept that he perceives as enlightened being. I have long held that the energy responsible for the ‘flows’ experienced by Jeff and the group are kundalini flows, I believe he is capable of hacking into people’s kundalini, so people are convinced that something is happening, and I think it is, but I don’t think what’s happening is what Jeff claims it to be.

Whatever you mean by this Lima, it is not good.

This, “One day he messaged me to ask if I was finding amusement in giving him huge breasts and making him try to walk in heels while he was in a business meeting” - is so monty pythonish it’s hilarious, and yet there continues to be serious discussion about this man who is his own parody. Amazing really.

I like your post in general, but can’t help but notice you make an underlying assumption that Jeff is actually in contact with divine beings. Jeff says he is contact with divine beings, and he says he can put you in contact with them, but the dynamics of what is really going on with that are open to conjecture.

I can’t argue against this. There seems to be a crossover between ‘polarity work’ with some like you, and kinky astral stuff with others, though the blondes boobs seem to be standard fare. Can you accept that Lori and ilu seem to have had manipulative astral sexual relationships with Jeff, and that there might be a few others who are not speaking up? Do you have a problem if your guru is having manipulative and kinky astral affairs, so clearly has his own issues around his sexual desires, or can you separate this issue out from the work he does with you? Would his wife have a problem with his affairs, or is that a non-issue for you?