Bindi

We can talk about pissing in rivers without getting mod team notices, just can't refer to Greek philosophical perspectives that might be extremely relevant and on topic, right?

I thought examining what might be meant by motion and rest in Greek philosophy might shed light on its meaning in GoT, did you get complaints about my post?

Agreed. I gather much of this early gnostic thought came from Greek philosophy as well, maybe even more than from Eastern thought. For example google "motion and rest Greek philosophy" to trace this one idea.

Just regarding the horses, the related verse from Matthew 6:24 states the two masters are God and mammon which sounds pretty sensible to me: "No one can serve two masters: Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

On the Brink of the Apocalypse

Being is the Dharmakaya but Being is not a being. The ordinary being-ness of all the beings is the being-ness of Being, which is the manifestation of the singular being-ness of Being which is no thingness from which everything and anything arises. ~ Rudolph Bauer

I came across this today of the woman who was held captive and had her arm broken, talking about her experience with Bomjon (Buddha boy) and his sangha.

I just tried to change my avatar photo but there doesn't seem to be an option to do this yet?

Reading this article Suicide attacks and Islamic law by an Islamic Professor of Law from an Islamic university it does seem that Islamic terrorism is unlawful according to the koran and sharia law. If the conclusions that this article comes to are correct, it is reasonable to distinguish between Islamic terrorism and Islam, and to imagine that better Islamic education for all young muslims might be part of the solution to the problem.

The Jing and Qi are like water in a fishbowl (the body), the spirit is like the fish. The better the quality of the water, the healthier the fish. – Master Chen

It seems highly likely to me that the goal of Satsang philosophy is actually an intermediate spiritual state, similar to the states Sri Aurobindo refers to in his essay "The Intermediate Zone" (below) - a dangerous and misleading transitional spiritual state between the ordinary consciousness and true spiritual realisation. Some of the nondualist/neo-advaitan self-professed awakened teachers are starting to say as much themselves, that the Satsang awakening is just the start: "All these experiences are of the same nature and what applies to one applies to another. Apart from some experiences of a personal character, the rest are either idea-truths, such as pour down into the consciousness from above when one gets into touch with certain planes of being, or strong formations from the larger mental and vital worlds which, when one is directly open to these worlds, rush in and want to use the sadhak for their fulfilment. These things, when they pour down or come in, present themselves with a great force, a vivid sense of inspiration or illumination, much sensation of light and joy, an impression of widening and power. The sadhak feels himself freed from the normal limits, projected into a wonderful new world of experience, filled and enlarged and exalted;what comes associates itself, besides, with his aspirations, ambitions, notions of spiritual fulfilment and yogic siddhi; it is represented even as itself that realisation and fulfilment. Very easily he is carried away by the splendour and the rush, and thinks that he has realised more than he has truly done, something final or at least something sovereignly true. At this stage the necessary knowledge and experience are usually lacking which would tell him that this is only a very uncertain and mixed beginning; he may not realise at once that he is still in the cosmic Ignorance, not in the cosmic Truth, much less in the Transcendental Truth, and that whatever formative or dynamic idea-truths may have come down into him are partial only and yet further diminished by their presentation to him by a still mixed consciousness. He may fail to realise also that if he rushes to apply what he is realising or receiving as if it were something definitive, he may either fall into confusion and error or else get shut up in some partial formation in which there may be an element of spiritual Truth but it is likely to be outweighted by more dubious mental and vital accretions that deform it altogether. It is only when he is able to draw back (whether at once or after a time) from his experiences, stand above them with the dispassionate witness consciousness, observe their real nature, limitations, composition, mixture that he can proceed on his way towards a real freedom and a higher, larger and truer siddhi. At each step this has to be done. For whatever comes in this way to the sadhak of this yoga, whether it be from overmind or Intuition or Illumined Mind or some exalted Life Plane or from all these together, it is not definitive and final; it is not the supreme Truth in which he can rest, but only a stage. And yet these stages have to be passed through, for the supramental or the Supreme Truth cannot be reached in one bound or even in many bounds; one has to pursue a calm patient steady progress through many intervening stages without getting bound or attached to their lesser Truth or Light or Power or Ananda. This is in fact an intermediary state, a zone of transition between the ordinary consciousness in mind and the true yoga knowledge. One may cross without hurt through it, perceiving at once or at an early stage its real nature and refusing to be detained by its half-lights and tempting but imperfect and often mixed and misleading experiences; one may go astray in it, follow false voices and mendacious guidance, and that ends in a spiritual disaster; or one may take up one’s abode in this intermediate zone, care to go no farther and build there some half-truth which one takes for the whole truth or become the instrument of the powers of these transitional planes, - that is what happens to many sadhaks and yogis. ...For this intermediate zone is a region of half-truths - and that by itself would not matter, for there is no complete truth below the supermind; but the half-truth here is often so partial or else ambiguous in its application that it leaves a wide field for confusion, delusion and error. The sadhak thinks that he is no longer in the old small consciousness at all, because he feels in contact with something larger or more powerful, and yet the old consciousness is still there, not really abolished. He feels the control or influence of some Power, Being or Force greater than himself, aspires to be its instrument and thinks he has got rid of ego; but this delusion of egolessness often covers an exaggerated ego. Ideas seize upon him and drive his mind which are only partially true and by over-confident misapplication are turned into falsehoods; this vitiates the movements of the consciousness and opens the door to delusion. Suggestions are made, sometimes of a romantic character, which flatter the importance of the sadhak or are agreeable to his wishes and he accepts them without examination or discriminating control. Even what is true, is so exalted or extended beyond its true pitch and limit and measure that it becomes the parent of error. This is a zone which many sadhaks have to cross, in which many wander for a long time and out of which a great many never emerge. Especially if their sadhana is mainly in the mental and vital, they have to meet here many difficulties and much danger; only those who follow scrupulously a strict guidance or have the psychic being prominent in their nature pass easily as if on a sure and clearly marked road across this intermediate region. A central sincerity, a fundamental humility also save from much danger and trouble. One can then pass quickly beyond into a clearer Light where if there is still much mixture, incertitude and struggle, yet the orientation is towards the cosmic Truth and not to a half-illumined prolongation of Maya and ignorance." http://kheper.net/topics/Aurobindo/intermediate_zone.htm

More from Tony Parsons: In the meetings, one of the questions I keep getting is: “So what you’re saying is that I can’t do anything, and that I have no responsibility?”. And I keep on repeating: no, I’m not saying you can’t do anything, because that would imply that there’s someone who can’t do anything. But the reality is: there is no one. That is something totally different. Lots of so-called Advaita people just hate this message. They keep coming back to the argument that what I’m saying promotes laziness, that it’s a terrible, awful thing to say. They don’t comprehend what’s basically, fundamentally being said, and that is that there is no choice, there is no free will. There is no one. They totally and utterly still believe in the reality of individual choice. For them to hear that there is no one….it’s impossible for them to hear that. So they’ll go on arguing in duality. On the other hand: I know of people who have come once and seen it totally. Others come to the meetings a few times, and then the whole idea of individuality simply disappears. It falls apart. Awakenings are happening all over the place at this time. And what people say is that when it happens, they realize that it’s absolutely natural and ordinary. No big deal, in a sense. In another way, it’s absolutely wonderful.

Many people have had temporary glimpses of the Self. Sometimes it happens spontaneously, and it is not uncommon for it to happen in the presence of a realised Master. After these temporary glimpses, the experience goes away because there are still thoughts and latent desires which have not been extinguished. The Self will only accept, consume and totally destroy a mind that is totally free from vasanas. (Papaji in Nothing Ever Happened, vol. 3, p. 405) http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/43425-effort-vs-no-effort/#entry737903

Essays from both camps on the differences between and the value of traditional Advaita versus Neo-Advaita/the Western Satsang movement: http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/trad_neo/trad_neo.htm

Aetherous is only echoing a very common analysis of 'Western Satsang' and neo-advaita.

Cynicism might be best avoided, but discernment is an absolute requirement.

Immortality as a goal resonates with me, despite it seeming somewhat ridiculous or impossible to achieve. I am also reminded of the tree of life that people are barred from when they are thrown out of the garden of Eden, and the work that would be needed to re-enter that garden and eat of that tree. No matter how ridiculous it might seem, I do think it is possible, though I don't think it's possible following any currently available system known to us at this time. I mean creating a spirit immortal, not a physical immortal. This is my goal at least.

Is the goal to return to the primordial unity of the Dao, or to create and nurture an immortal spirit? Are these fundamentally different goals, or the same thing?

There's also the issue (for me) of what awakening is actually for apart from an individual not directly feeling pain. Swamij in the quote below uses many of the concepts that have been referred to here already, but he adds one sentence which is not such a focal point generally - 'in relation to the service of other beings'. Similar to compassion, but an engaged and 'embodied' compassion. Maybe it's just his take on it, but I think he's pretty well nailed it. [An enlightened yogi is] purely spontaneous, with no actions whatsoever being motivated by the inner drives of samskaras and karma. One hundred percent of actions are from the here-and-now response to the needs of the moment, in relation to the service of other beings. This is easy, as there is no I and no other; it is all a constant flow of pure, undivided consciousness (purusha), that only seems to play, here, there, and everywhere. http://swamij.com/yoga-sutras-43234.htm

As discriminative knowledge unfolds (2.26), there is a tremendous amount of insight or wisdom that comes. Through the repeated process of attaining discriminative knowledge through the many gross, subtle, and subtler levels of our being (1.17), comes discriminative enlightenment (4.22-4.26). Discriminative knowledge is the key to the entire science of Yoga (here, the term "knowledge" does not mean mere intellectual knowledge. Rather, it refers to the higher insight of direct experience). See http://swamij.com/yoga-sutras-22629.htm for further explanation of discriminative knowledge, the Yoga process and aims.

I realised a while ago after engaging with the topic of 'awakening' that I had what I would identify as an 'awakening' experience that lasted for a couple of days, brought on by a few weeks of acute distress (on top of years of milder level struggling) and a prayer asking for help. In a moment the pain that had become almost unbearable disappeared, and there was a blessed silence in my mind, and while carrying on with my day normally the condition remained. The next day I woke up and noted with mild surprise that this condition was still there, but either later that day or the next day I can't remember I 'saw' thoughts entering my perfectly clear mind and floating down, and these thoughts slowly increased like leaves piling up on the ground and clogged this state until I was back to normal, all in all the refilling with thoughts took a few minutes. I had a dream around this time where a wide pipe was flushed out with water a couple of times in quick succession, and it wasn't till a long time later that a constant stream of mud was flushed out of the pipe unendingly after which clear water started to fill a swimming pool from where this pipe stuck out from the bottom of the pool. So this was always going to be my way, and I didn't attempt to recreate this state because I was told so clearly that it would be a long time until it happened again, and that when it did clear water would then flow and fill the pool, which I now recognise as beingclear energy filling my heart. And in the meantime I have just gotten on with the work as I see it, looking at and clearing the emotional mud in my LDT for many years and for the last few years now looking at and clearing the ego superiority and inferiority in my heart, slowly clearing the way for this perfectly clear water to flow. To me this clear water is energy free of any contamination and completely unobstructed, able to fill and utterly transform my heart, which is why I have such absolute views. Looking at my personal experience there was a long way to go from the first taste of 'awakening' to embodying it absolutely, while energetically much has been achieved in the meantime which I find invaluable - I understand energy and the subtle energy body in ways that have enriched me and that I wouldn't choose to be without, things which no non-dual 'awakened' teacher is talking about. In a way it's like the teacher or guru who can give the student a taste of some state, but they have to make their own way to this place for it to stick, which is generally a lifetimes work. To cling to the intitial state would be counter-productive in my view, because it leaves so much depth unexplored and unrealised, and a multitude of 'pockets of ego' that Jetsun referred to.

Wisdom to me is a state of higher mind, alongside compassion. I wouldn't see either of these as possible within a 'normal' thinking context, but only as the fruits of bringing consciousness up to the UDT. How to do that is largely a matter of opinion.

Yours is a very stern awakening... I explained that I had come here in the wake of my dear friend dying. I said that I understood the body was but a temporary abode, but no matter how many spiritual words I heard I still feel such sadness. Kannan said something to me then that I loved to hear, that even Ramana Maharshi experienced such sadness and shed tears for those who died, even though he knew that we were all eternal. This was very touching to hear. Ramana Maharshi cried too. http://susiewoo.weebly.com/tiruvannamalai.html Now when Mary came to where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet, saying to him, t“Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” 33 When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come with her also weeping, he uwas deeply moved5 in his spirit and vgreatly troubled. 34 And he said, “Where have you laid him?” They said to him, “Lord, come and see.” 35 wJesus wept. 36 So the Jews said, “See xhow he loved him!” John 11 32-36