Bindi

That is your inalienable right.

Neo advaita is woven into her perspective, and looking into her history neo advaita, radical non-dualism and Western satsang are where she developed her understanding. Who gets to define spirituality is important, and I will fight against neo advaita being the Western standard. Advaita Vedanta is the longer more authentic road.

I disagree with her conclusion that 'awakening' or 'realisation' is synonymous with not seeking enlightenment. To accept the imperfections of the now instead. I simply do not agree.

The most general idea I get from reading people's descriptions of their post-NDE perspective is of a realisation that they are not the small self or the ego self, but I don't think it is generally associated with enlightenment. Just a massive shift of focus, and often a newfound passion to engage in 'spiritual' or compassionate pursuits. Just hypothetically, NDE's could be fairly safely manufactured with current medical knowledge, but there might be some moral outcry or dissension - I know this idea of medically induced NDE's was explored in a 1990 movie called 'Flatliners' which I found somewhat interesting at the time as a concept. If any of this relates to sudden enlightenment in neidan/daoism I have no idea edit: I would be interested in reading something from Wang Liping after his death experience if you could point me in the right direction.

Did all that sighing for effect and then not saying anything satisfy a need to display a long suffering superiority?

So she’s clearly not ‘Self-realised’, and has grasped this concept.Then what is her message? Her great breakthrough seems to be that ‘enlightenment’ isn’t the goal, which the 90%+ of humanity not looking for enlightenment have already achieved anyway. The only people she still needs to convince then are the 10% who are looking for something more, who are not content with 'false-self identification', and who are still deluded enough to think that it’s possible to go beyond this.

This was a very interesting passage that you posted, to me it was a carefully controlled NDE, and if this was the norm at one stage then the resulting state would be a very good basis for further internal cultivation from what I have read of NDE's. From what I can gather this practice of controlled NDE stopped because too many people died attempting it, but the knowledge that would be gained in a successful NDE would be hard to replace with neidan only techniques.

“superior virtue (shangde) takes no action, and does not employ examining or seeking; inferior virtue (xiade) takes action, and its operation is unceasing.” - Laozi 38, the Cantong qi In several works belonging to his extensive literary corpus, the Daoist master Liu Yiming 劉一明 (1734–1821) discusses two aspects of Neidan 內丹, or Internal Alchemy, respectively called shangde 上德 (“superior virtue”) and xiade下德 (“inferior virtue”). According to Liu, superior virtue focuses on the cultivation of xing 性, or inner nature, while inferior virtue focuses on the cultivation of ming命, a term that in its broadest sense denotes one’s embodiment and the destiny, or “mandate,” assigned by Heaven to one’s existence. Although these two aspects, or degrees, of Neidan are addressed to and accessible by different types of adepts, Liu Yiming emphasizes that, if the path of inferior virtue is fully achieved, it leads to the same state of realization as the path of superior virtue. https://www.scribd.com/document/271695641/Fabrizio-PREGADIO-Liu-Yiming-Superior-Virtue-Inferior-Virtue Is Liu Yiming then claiming immediate realisation in neidan is possible if someone has superior virtue?

I suspect that Joan Tollifson, if she read this, would take it in stride... Maybe, maybe not. In her words: "I can still bristle at times when “my authority” is challenged, and I can still be seduced by the image of myself as the one in the know or depressed by the story of being a failure... Sometimes—oftentimes—I am in delusion, believing in the mirage of self and other, trying to be somebody, thinking things shouldn’t be the way they are, looking for something “out there” to save me, pushing away the present experience..." Tollifson, 2013. http://www.lotusandrose.com/dewdrops/droplets/deep_soak.html ​...not that there's anything wrong with that...

Neo-advaita, which attempts to articulate nondual spirituality, and often does a very good job of presenting some of the traditional advaita teachings (though usually, it seems, quite ignorant of the specific ancient sources for these teachings), can be fairly summed up by its main teaching: "Call off the search, You are already the Self, no need to seek for It, and no need to make any efforts or engage in any practices." Now, traditional Advaita—as articulated by authentic sages from Yajñavalkya to Śaṅkara to Ramana Mahārshi in Hindu Vedānta—along with real nondual spirituality in all our genuine "pure mysticism" traditions, also would have one abandon any neurotic, selfish seeking for a desirable goal-state for "me." But the obvious limitation of neo-advaita is that it tends to completely ignore the "ego-free holy aspiration" for real Divine expression that ensues for the true sages and saints once selfish seeking drops off in initial levels of awakening. Neo-advaita also completely ignores the "pre-requisite virtues" that Śaṅkara and all true masters have insisted upon for one to even be considered mature or "ripe" enough to hear the Absolute teaching. Thus, while traditional Advaita Vedānta speaks of the ultimate efficacy of Jñāna (Wisdom-Knowledge) alone, that is to say, Knowledge is the sole "way" or "means" for waking up, what so often gets ignored by neo-advaita is the great emphasis on what Shankara called the "four pre-requisites" for authentic Knowledge: namely, vairāgya (unattachment, dispassion), viveka (discernment of the abiding real from the fleeting unreal), mumukshatva (supreme earnestness or yearning for authentic liberation), and the shatkasampatti "six attainments," entailing shama-concentration, dama-control of the sense organs, uparama-contentment through dharma (virtue), titiksha-equanimity/forbearance, and shraddhā-supreme faith in the Self. The cultivation of all four pre-requisites or "attainments" (as the last category is explicitly named) is a sina qua non for Shankara, and he is often to be heard urging this cultivation of such virtues in his scriptural commentaries and independent treatises. Therefore, to speak of "Knowledge alone" (the Knowledge that there is only the Self, Absolute Awareness) is the ultimate, purist/purest way of putting the matter of liberation, but realistically, pragmatically, there's much more to talk about in this Self-Realization zero-distance "journey" from here to HERE. www.enlightened-spirituality.org/neo-advaita.html

"investigate what it is you are looking for, and whether it is actually absent here and now, and exactly who or what would find it, possess it or lack it. You may find that nothing is missing, nothing is broken, nothing is needed. There is simply this, just as it is." To me this is neo-advaitan nonsense, "A rampant pseudo-mysticism today in India, Europe, and USA, the distortion and prostitution of traditional Advaita or Nonduality into neo-advaita or pseudo-advaita, [and] a very popular form of Western spirituality." www.enlightened-spirituality.org/neo-advaita.html

Energy needs to circulate down to the feet and then up to the top of the head?

Is this maybe a description of the macrocosmic orbit opening up?

If there was an important channel running from the feet/heels and up the leg/s, then the breathing through the heels could refer to incorporating this channel energetically, I was hoping someone might know definitively though.

I think the direction of prana can make a difference, if it is directed outwards it can make you more noticeable, and people will react to your strong presence as they are inclined, but if prana is directed inwards then you can have the situation where a true master will go by unnoticed.

Jeff, with absolutely no actual comprehension of neidan or dantians you really shouldn't be telling people so flippantly that they have opened their middle dantian.

Is the starting point of the association between Neidan and immediate realisation based on Liu Yiming’s interpretation of the passage in the Daode jing, sec. 38, ”superior virtue (shangde) takes no action, and does not employ examining or seeking; inferior virtue (xiade) takes action, and its operation is unceasing.”

Thanks SoH, but I still can't find any reference to direct realisation in any neidan text or description of neidan, every reference I come across describes gradual cultivation with specific stages, can you give me more information about where to find this concept in neidan?

I haven't heard of direct realisation in neidan or alchemy before, if I wanted to look into this idea can you tell me what to look for specifically, or give me a link, doing a word search on 'direct realisation of both Xing and Ming' didn't lead me anywhere much. Thanks.

This seems patently true for traditional neidan or alchemy, perhaps what is meant by these words just needs to be defined clearly.

What if the mind as we know it can be reformed, not dismissed as illusory or monkey mind and ignored. When mind is educated by instructions from a deeper level, it can learn to see the illusions it labours under, and it can come to understand its role in relation to the Eternal Self. A cleared mind should be under no illusion that it is the true identity, to me though it plays a vital role in the process of slowly shifting our perspective from duality to non-duality and the perspective of the Eternal Self.

I think my mind is doing the looking and the unhooking of itself from identification with the 5 koshas/sheaths.