Bindi

There is so much information already online, it seems a bit late to try and stuff the genie back into the bottle. And like the internet, that information can be used for good or bad. But again everyone is referring to methods, not basic understanding of the anatomy of the subtle body, and its relation to mind. I came across this the other day, and I thought about it for a while, in terms of the inner heart and the crown. I found it gave ego a concrete level that I appreciated. How can this level of information be misused? BTW, on the site, people were being directed to find a teacher and listen to him/her for how to go beyond ego.

I'm really referring to the anatomy of the subtle body, the channels and chakras and other subtle body formations, which seem to me no more dangerous to know about than the anatomy of the physical body. I'm not proposing that esoteric and powerful methods be broadcast, i'm referring to a much simpler level than this. Perhaps more real knowledge of the basis of subtle body realities could lead to more informed decisions, rather than having to rely on blind trust. For instance in my first quote, Thrangu Rinpoche relates dualism of the mind to divergence of energy in ida and pingala. This gives a level of concreteness and tangibility to what seems to be presented otherwise as something separate from any foundational reality, but it hardly seems to be potentially harmful knowledge. What he claims can then be examined with some basic knowledge of the subtle body. For me, knowledge of physical anatomy has great value. And knowledge of subtle anatomy has equally great value. As Yangonpa states in the quote above the body has manifold layers, coarse, subtle, and very subtle. The anatomy of those layers, and how the mind relates to all three layers, is of interest to me.

I got the error message for 2 or 3 days straight on chrome, but I could still access through explorer the whole time.

Muktananda had undeniable ‘spiritual’ power, he is known to have had the ‘power to light your candle from his candle’, and many people experienced his energy in shaktipat. Given the number of testimonials to this I have little reason to doubt that he genuinely had the ability to pass kundalini energy on. But he also displayed some very non-guru characteristics – an active sexual interest in teenage girls, a ferocious temper, where he would yell and scream and on occasion be physically violent, and a strong attachment to money. “As Muktananda's power grew, he ignored normal standards of behavior. He felt he was above and beyond the law." http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/secret.htm Does his spiritual attainment and knowledge have any value in the end? Can one be a great yogi, and a tragically flawed person at the same time?

For me, ego and persona need to be demolished and then restructured, I don’t see any easy way to do that, but i'm pretty happy to go the long hard way anyway, as it seems more thorough to me. A possible definition of ego from http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritual-practice/steps-of-spiritual-practice/how-to-reduce-ego/what-is-ego-definition/ : In layman’s terms one can define ego as pride about oneself. Thoughts such as my body and mind, my intellect, my life, my wealth, my children, I should acquire happiness, etc. arise from ego alone. Ego, awareness of the self, pride, conceit and ‘i’ness are words related to the word ‘ego’ but on a psychological plane. The most spiritual definition - depending on the level of our ego, we identify with the God-principle within us, i.e. the Soul to varying degrees. If our ego is high, we identify less with the Soul or the God-principle within us.

I would consider myself mostly unbiased about Amma, if anything i might have had a slight pro-Amma bias. Reading up on Amma, i wouldn't discount her energy transmission, but i would question the Indian guru/ashram model. Too much money, too much power, and these guru's are seemingly worse off at the end of the trip than at the beginning. Amma's indiscretions are not at all in the same class as previously mentioned gurus, but nor is she squeaky clean. I guess if you get a lot out of it, you have to accept that Amma has human failings, magnified by the temptations to earthly power that are her current reality.

Have you ever considered why Sai Baba's female disciples didn't get genital massaging shaktipat?

My perspective is my lower case 's' self working towards my upper case 'S' Self. I would express it (at this point in time) specifically as my consciousness moving towards Ajna. My actual experience of this is bringing light to bear on my emotional hijackers and aspects of my persona that are supported by my ego. I personally don't try to work from the perspective of my 'Self', which I don't currently identify with, except insofar as I try to listen to the voice of my Self, which I do hear and trust, in the hope that one day I will be able to simply and authentically identify with my Self.

Pretty well everything in the spiritual arena is an opinion. So called awakened teachers also have just an opinion. Muktananda's own spiritual failing is surely an example of someone who might claim to be awakened having in no way arrived at a point beyond ego. A thousand cases of teachers not shifting beyond the constraints of ego doesn't prove that it is impossible to develop beyond this self-serving function.

Being sarcastic and scoring points, and then ending all warm and sugary, is a passive aggressive trait, and I for one find it disingenuous and manipulative.

I'm asking you. I never will get an answer though will I?

I believe he is your guru though. This makes the question "Who is your guru's guru" quite valid.

A simple question Jonesboy, who is your guru's guru, and I repeatedly get no answer.

Absolute, authentic ego death, I do believe it's possible. Though it's only speculation, I do like to think that Jesus attained this.

Hardly. See below. Again you don't answer to the actual issue, your guru's guru/lineage.

This is not about seeds, or readiness, or belief. I asked you a question that you will not answer, because you don't like to admit that your own guru has no guru.

You state categorically that no great master is without a guru... what of your own guru, what is his lineage? Who is his guru?

Yes, according to the two quotes below.

I really am very interested in exploring this alternative way of processing information, and the possibility of becoming conscious of this apparent parallel 'consciousness'. I'd like to start a separate thread on this when I've considered it more.

I agree that the chakra's and dantians and kundalini as well as however many other channels there are beyond the central channel are all involved energetically. I'm probably just trying to find an end point, which would nonetheless remain joined to the earlier parts of the energetic path anyway.

Maybe, and the idea that ajna and the crown chakra are associated with the pineal and pituitary glands has been around for a while, and this could be what he is referring to. But what if Johari is actually referring to the space (in subtle anatomy) between the two hemispheres of the brain. Then he is in effect asserting that the right and the left sides of the brain (associated with male/female, yin/yang) are balanced when consciousness sits in between these two opposites. This actually makes quite a lot of sense to me. And initially I agreed with him, as I have reason to believe that the void between the two hemispheres is remarkably important, but I do wonder if this void is actually more like a barrier between the left and the right hemisphere. Something like a guardian that restricts conscious access to the right brain. In this perspective, the right brain consciously processes information in a very different way to the left brain. The left hemisphere dominates our conscious thought processes with its verbal, logical, and linear style. The global and intuitive style of the right hemisphere then either remains largely subconscious, or is held in check by the left hemisphere, as it cannot tolerate the knowledge that results from the thought processes of the right hemisphere. This is similar to the theory of dual consciousness - see http://www.legiontheory.com/split-brain.html

I was reading An Introduction to the Philosophy and Religion of Taoism by Jeaneane D. Fowler. She writes that when coarse jing has been transmuted into subtle jing in the LDT, it is passed up to the MDT to aid in the transmutation of coarse qi into subtle qi there, which in turn is passed up to the UDT where both subtle jing and subtle qi aid in the transmutation of coarse shen into subtle shen. After this the “subtle states of all Three Treasures merge as one.” This results in shen that is pure yang, and is transmuted into Void, and it is at this point that the Spirit Embryo is created. I would appreciate some feedback regarding the validity of her statements (which I have summarised).

Trying to understand more about what is meant by the term 'yang shen body' or 'yang spirit':

Thankyou for your helpful response Taoist Text. To clarify for myself, are you referring to the Yang Shen body as somewhat the equivalent to the Spiritual Embryo? And what shen then flows through the 3 Dan Tians? This seems so true, I do believe that Neidan holds the truth, but that truth can be very well hidden indeed.