Bindi

I tend to agree, to me the coal face is in the heart, but then I did read recently that Buddhists treat the heart/mind as one, so as Maddie suggests maybe this isn’t actually the true core of Buddhism but a shallow Western interpretation. I do have that impression of Western Buddhists myself though. The one thing I’ve really been able to use from Buddhism is “This too will pass”, not so much lately but for a while it was a powerful mantra when I needed it. As Stirling says, one goes to Buddhism when one feels they are suffering, and it’s true, life can be sucky, but there can be other ways to resolve this. Life being sucky can be a call to arms but Buddhism is far from the only answer. Different antidotes can offer different benefits, life can be seen as a most wonderful opportunity instead of a thing that needs to ultimately be escaped from, I’d prefer to find the value of life rather than the ultimate escape from life which Buddhism ultimately is, and I don’t believe that’s just for Western Buddhists. I would say accepting all feelings… “ is actually much better for you since you no longer block life energy and you become happier as a result.”

Double post

Karmic seeds I agree, where they’re stored can be an interesting question, I currently would say they are stored in kundalini consciousness. For me how to work on them is a continuation of feeling the feeling, which I think is different to seeing them for what they are. I fundamentally see both karma and emotional damage as entirely valid emotional responses to external conditions, which cease when they have delivered their message, and their message has been heard. Ah, the meaning of life 😀 To me, if I get the entire factory of myself working, only then can I see what the factory is for and what it produces. I see all religions and philosophies as others opinions, some of which I agree with and some of which I don’t agree with. It seems to me that buying into any one system does require one to buy into that system’s b/s, and has a high chance of blocking out a competing system’s truths. I remain remarkably happy following my own path 😊 It’s interesting that it’s available if you go looking for it, possibly in many religions and philosophies, so we’re never fully stuck perhaps. I’m glad to hear about the Svabhavikakaya, I dislike the current trend to refer to the body as a meat suit, to see it as an integrated part of the whole seems so much healthier.

I think my difference is that I seek the underlying causes for my negative emotions, and as they become resolved so the negative emotion lessens in both the short and long term. I have the idea that healing needs to happen, but perhaps this is the same as “seeing through the 'display' to what is actually going on”? Same with my interest in subtle energy systems, they are the underlying reality I am interested in, but maybe the Buddhists would say the subtle energy system is also just a display, or maybe that’s the non-dualists, who knows anymore ☺️

Do you know what Buddhists mean when they call emotions illusory?

As Maddie said earlier it is the monologue attached to the feeling that creates the suffering, I might say it is the monologue that extends the suffering, the feeling in the moment might make me miserable but when it ends I am not miserable anymore - some feelings are decidedly unpleasant. But… at this point in time I do take the feeling as ‘me’, just as I take thoughts to be me and my body to be me. I am also Shakti and shiva, and at some point I may identify as their child, I am multifaceted and can see the world through all of these perspectives, why would I need to disidentify with any perspective? I am a multicelled organism with multiple perspectives as opposed to Buddha’s no-self.

In what sense are feelings illusory?

I agree the narrative can be misleading, I do try to just feel the pure feeling divorced of narrative.

@Mark Foote, I’ve made a new thread to not disrupt daniels very good efforts to get to the bottom of the meaning of nonduality. My conclusions are fundamentally different to Gautama’s I believe, in that to me the root of suffering is our endless tendency to stifle feeling bad. Locating feelings in the Ida Nadi means that our subtle energy body is disrupted through stifling as subtle energy is stopped from flowing through, and even in the central channel I am inclined to believe that the root problem is emotional damage that is carried over. To me kundalini is a valid part of the path and central channel work, and from what I can understand kundalini herself is also wounded, it’s like all the yin layers are suppressed and consequently damaged, and the work that I do is to allow feelings as the fundamental cure. As far as I know Buddhism refers to feelings as illusory, I see them as subtle energy and entirely real and valid.

Interestingly, I have believed for a few years that the two side channels equate to feeling (Ida Nadi) and mental perception (Pingala Nadi), and bringing them back to healthy activity ends my primary identification with them as consciousness moves to the central channel. From my perspective they don’t cease, but they start to function together in a way that doesn’t need my primary attention, they become semi-autonomous if you will, but their information still feeds into the overall system. Different to Gautama’s conclusion but interestingly referring to the two same systems of feeling and perception.

Just along the lines this thread is taking, I think Jesus was a phenomenal person, my small gripe would be that he didn’t go beyond the framework of the Judaism he was brought up in, but he was a groundbreaker and he couldn’t get everything right. Also nothing against Jews, but Judaism has its limitations, just as Christianity and Buddhism do. Mixing up spiritual metaphors, I find an echo of reality in the Neidan child, which I see as the produce of yin qi and yang qi or “Shiva and Shakti”, I think a couple of people, specifically Jesus and the founder of neidan, got to this point, and gained real powers. Personally speaking I don’t think the Buddha got to any real point, I think he came to an intellectual conclusion that was still mind based… just putting it out there ya know 🙃

From my perspective, the subtle energy realities are dual, literally paired systems, being the right and left subtle channels (yin and yang/Ida and pingala/lalanā and rasanā). They are not cleared by wishful thinking or not thinking, and to get anywhere they do have to be cleared. It’s a spiritual scam is to say there is nothing to do there. The central channel (sushumna/avadhūtī) is also a dual system, referred to as shiva and shakti or Yang Qi and Yin Qi. These energies have to be brought together. This is also not achieved by wishful thinking, or denying their existence. Beyond these tasks there may be nonduality, the mindless mind, emptiness, but to truly attain this a whole lot of healing of the subtle channels needs to take place. I agree with you Daniel, nondualists claim superiority of understanding and achievement, but all their blabbering is just a fools game that is currently in vogue.

Just out of interest, I first noticed what I assume is my LDT by how it felt, and I rested awareness on that sensation because there was nothing else that stood out like that sensation-wise. I’d never heard of dantians etc, and it was only decades later I first read the word dantian. Not knowing any better I concentrated attention on that point for decades! Now I’m grateful for that naïveté and simplicity.

And then again, Amy’s book might be relevant to the topic as 3bob suggests: “Sorcerer's Apprentice unblinkingly reveals the inner workings of the "Cult of Carlos," run by a charismatic authoritarian in his sixties who controlled his young female followers through emotional abuse, mind games, bizarre rituals, dubious teachings, and sexual excess. Wallace's story is both specific and universal, a captivating cautionary tale about the dangers of giving up one's power to a tyrant-and about surviving assaults on body and spirit.” https://www.amazon.com.au/Sorcerers-Apprentice-Carlos-Castenada-Castaneda/dp/1583942068

Kundalini activation via sex is not advisable even if it were possible, this site is very informative about the proper process, particularly:

Agreed, it should be ‘Do not interrupt the course of heaven’, which we do interrupt by default because we’re messed up. It shouldn’t be a return to the ways of nature.

Yes I see, I don’t really understand what they’ve achieved then, if they start with the yin and Yang image and end with it? This is a photo of actual quantum entanglement, I wonder if it tells us anything?

Where did you read this?

I agree with your tripartite arrangement of ecstasy thought feeling but I would be inclined to replace “ecstasy” with something else. Not sure what though! Something in a different ballpark to thought and feeling yes, a third state, perhaps one that is in sync with underlying reality, in sync with the world, not necessarily pleasant or unpleasant but satisfying somehow. For a mundane example say being in sync requires returning after an argument to resolve an issue with someone, not necessarily pleasant, but satisfying and an action that can result in better relationship. Right time right place instead of pushing shit uphill? Being in sync with the Dao?

Hi Daniel, to be honest you wouldn’t want to hear about the neidan child from me, much better to go with the acknowledged neidan masters that frequent this board. To me neidan is just one more part of the elephant, and a fairly odd part at that. My own perspective on the child is that it is the result of shiva and Shakti conjoining for want of a better analogy, which is central channel work.

Back on wu wei, to me it’s not allowing the ‘natural’ to happen as opposed to the mentally contrived, it’s allowing more spiritual forces to take control. One view reverts to what is natural, to what is always potentially there in the background, in my perspective something new has to first be generated, for example the neidan child, which then takes over operations. I have the same issue about going beyond yin and yang, it’s not operating from emptiness or void, but something has to be established, a new platform from which to operate from. My view is not the standard view, it’s definitely not along the lines of ‘we are already enlightened we just don’t know it’, far closer to the neidan view that a spiritual child has to be established.

By ultimately I mean in absolute reality they are actually divided until such time as they are not, as opposed to they are ultimately United and merely appear to be divided because of our limited perspective.

I think the Indian parable of the 5 blind men each holding a different part of the elephant is spot on, I also find some truth in a variety of different systems.

Argument from inconsistent revelations The argument from inconsistent revelations is an argument that aims to show that one cannot choose one religion over another since their revelations are inconsistent with each other and that any two religions cannot be true.[61] The argument appears, among other places, in Voltaire's Candide and Philosophical Dictionary. It is also manifested in Denis Diderot's statement in response to Pascal's wager that, whatever proofs are offered for the existence of God in Christianity or any other religion, "an Imam can reason the same way".

The very fact that there are numerous different religious beliefs leads to the inevitable conclusion that 99% of them at least are not true. That leaves one a 1% chance of believing in the true belief, and that’s allowing that one belief is actually based on subtle reality.