Oneironaut

For the same reason I know that Tai Chi loses to Dutch style kick boxing. Dutch style kick boxing is really karate/muay thai/boxing. What in the world would make you think that kalaripayattu doesn't lost against karate? You can't fault me for not properly answering poorly worded questions but the intelligible ones have been answered fully and directly. . What is very good Kalaripayattu? You accuse others of evading questions but you have yet to fulfill any requests of showing kalaripayattu in all its martial glory. If it's a bad karate guy against a "very good" kalaripayattu I'd still put my money on the trash karate guy. No, there's a sea of evidence. Evidence that's lacking on your part. My assertion isn't wrong either. I could just as easily say create the conditions for a cross style matchup between a person wielding a gun and another one with a plastic knife and the person using the gun will always win. That's a fact. Saying the opposite (as in your case) is a false equivalency and does not make it tr That's the nature of the beast. I didn't make it that way. Be my guest... My elucidation in learning just how severely deluded some people are. All of those were poor examples of horse stance in MMA. The best I've seen so far is using sumo stances to defend against wrestling takedowns. For no other reason other than your sensei told you to. Didn't I already answer that? When you're doing those upward blocks and chambering your non blocking hand to the hips you're defending against an upward attack and simultaneously bringing your opponent off balance. We used to do the exact same drill in taekwondo as a theoretical knife attack and the chambering was never explained. I never found the technique practical. Agreed. Isn't this a reason to evolve the art and filter out useless drills and techniques? Perhaps even take the few redeemable drills and techniques from the more obscure styles. Whatever refuses to evolve needs to die out. Generally speaking and it's something that needed change long ago. Thankfully there are karate styles that have made these changes decades ago. This is why I made no mention of more modernized styles. I'm just allowing you to erroneously paint karate as a monolithic style that falls to the confinements of other traditional martial arts. You still haven't answered or demonstrated as to how kalaripayattu does things better? Your "FACTS" are not facts at all. It's intellectually dishonest and historically inaccurate to call your claims "facts". The one that holds the most water is the modification for the physical education system. For one the Americans were not at war directly with the Okinawans. Secondly, I know exactly where you got the "karate stole it's kicks from French Savate" argument. This is a myth that spread across the internet as "historical fact" thanks to unreliable, pseudo history gathered on obscured internet forums from self proclaimed martial arts historians with 0 credentials. Some self proclaimed expert (everyone is an expert on the internet) gathered all this wrong information and bundled it up into a viral YouTube video where it goes unchallenged and passed off as history. Karate was influenced by Chinese fighting arts with no influence from savate. It's actually far more likely that savate stole it's kicks from kung fu styles as well as from fighters in Thailand during their travels across Asia.

For the same reason I know that all Kalaripayattu practitioners would get destroyed by Muay Thai fighters. For the same reason I know that wing chun would get destroyed by boxers. I could just as easily say that weak karate styles (not all karate styles) would get destroyed by boxing or Muay Thai (and they have) yet kalaripayauttu and wing chun would lose to these weak karate styles. You care so little that you have to go out of your way to defend useless arts. Okay..... Good, because I am too. The title of that video is very misleading. Kalaripayattu is NOT the oldest martial art nor is it the source from which all other martial arts arose from.

That's not what I said. My awesome memory tells me that I did include karate in there with ALL other martial arts and made it clear that certain karate styles, not all, are exceptional (and they are) when it comes to "traditional" martial arts that are still functional today and have the potential to be even better. Go back and reread for yourself. Have fun. I'm sure the much less functional karate styles and other traditional martial arts have some redeemable techniques that can be adopted and applied in actual combat or battle (there goes that word again). Hold that thought. We'll save the good stuff for later. Show the effectiveness of Kalaripayattu.

She did say its a perfectly valid response. But more importantly....... she's hot! Human memory has an odd way of working. It's been scientifically proven that humans have a much easier time remembering absurd or peculiar things. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170619092713.htm You fit the description of a formless avatar floating in virtual space and filled with nothing but absurdities. Very easy to associate and have it trigger reliable memories. I never said you mentioned any of that. That's confabulation on your behalf. Forget about what others think. What's important is that you fail to keep your delusions in check and ramble on with misinformation. I don't think Kalaripayattu loses against karate. I KNOW it does. Huge difference. Create the conditions for a cross style matchup and the results will speak in my favor. A list obviously does you no good. You'll just misread or confabulate again. The dictionary meaning also expands on this definition. It doesn't have to be locked into only what you want it to mean. I encourage you to go and see for yourself and if that triggers you then take it out on the dictionary. I'm just pointing out the facts. What are you talking about? All the examples you mentioned fall under some form of politics. Maybe word your question better about hikite and there would be no confusion. Where's the video? Hikite in kuhon and kata are just for drills. It represents grabbing a person by an article of clothing, an arm, their head etc. and pulling them towards you as you deliver a punch. In theory the pulling and the landing of the punch makes it more powerful. I have seen something mechanically similar applied successfully in bareknuckle boxing. Hikite is also used in judo and other karate styles have very creative and functional ways of using it. Do you understand the response?

I'm still having difficulties wrapping my mind around this. Qi cultivation and learning how to work with these energies can actually create profound and tangible changes in mind? I'm more used to direct ways of training or exercising the mind. It may be more "yang" but working with Qi to create tangible changes in mind is a very foreign concept to me. Mystical even. I briefly tried the "fake it till you make it" approach when it comes to Qi sensitivity and cultivation. Do you think some people just aren't meant to experience Qi or how to work with it?

Gun-jutsu is the best technique when someone comes at you with a knife. Those are real tai chi masters. I don't agree with everything the person in that video was saying but one thing we can agree on is that tai chi is not designed for combat. A real fight to the death in hand to hand combat (no weapons) it's RIP soldier. A below average boxer would put the soldier 6 feet under ground. If it was war or a fight of survival with weapons involved the soldier will 100% win. These are two completely different disciplines and two entirely different ways of fighting.

Glad we could agree on something. But mentality could only get you so far. Aside from the proper mentality you also need techniques that are effective and the training to show you how those techniques can be readily applied in live combat situations. This is what I think of when it comes to TCM, Eskrima, Kali, kalaripayatuu and functionless forms of karate even. Some guys that practice traditional arts may be tough and in great shape but there's a such thing as being "in shape" and being "in fighting shape". Military men for example are extremely tough and in very good shape but they would get absolutely slaughtered in hand to hand combat when it comes to fighting someone who specializes in those disciplines. It's not at all far fetched to say that an obese boxer with decent hand skills can easily knock out a military guy who exercises all day. We can partly agree here. I would say fighting efficacy is important however it can be taken to unhealthy extremes like we see in combat sports. I hate being judgmental but I can't help seeing the majority of those competition fighting guys as low IQ brutes who would otherwise be dead or in prison if it was not for fighting. I respect a handful of specific styles of karate a lot because it seems more promising in striking a healthier balance. In other words even though a practitioner may not be the best fighter in the world (because that is not their goal in life) they can still be confident in knowing that they're more than capable of self defense in any unwanted confrontations. It was designed to be a self defense art. Other traditional arts are delusional and can only get their students seriously wounded or killed. I don't mean to knock anyones martial art that they devoted so much of themselves to but Kalaripayattu and Tai Chi fall under those camps.

Only I never claimed to be an expert. Just someone who considers themselves a student of the game. I just stated a few simple facts. If only I had a dollar for anyone that gets offended when facts are spoken... Certain martial arts shouldn't have the term "martial" attached to it. Art? Sure... but there's nothing martial about them. I don't mind the spiritual component. If it gives you mental strength more power to you. If meditation eases your anxiety and makes you more focused and a sharper fighter I'm all for it as well. I have yet to see chi/ki being used in a fight application but I'm still very open minded. Which McDojo or daycare center posing as a "karate" gym did your friend practice in? You have people who aren't chest thumping brutes, getting into fights every weekend AND trained in authentic karate styles who can do that too. Does that not make them fighters?

You're very welcome! Someplace else you've spoken down on karate and mentioned the supposed martial superiority of kali/eskrima over it. I'm not going to waste time digging but if you'd like to you can. In your more recent post you failed to mention that the reason Kalaripayattu loses against karate is because Kalaripayattu does not work. It doesn't matter if it's in a dojo, in the streets, on the beach or in some remote location. Yes. That's mostly dependent on the style and their approach to techniques that can be applied in a live fight situation against someone with ill intent. Someone that's REALLY trying to hurt you and not just theory. There are full contact karate styles with this approach in mind and if anything is holding karate back from evolving even further it's really the politics. I have seen variations of hikite used in combat sports with success. The chambering may not be exaggerated but the same exact principle still applies. I also don't see anyone getting into a horse stance during kumite or MMA. Some dojos probably don't allow hikite during sparring so it mostly stays within kihon, kata and the realm of theory. There are MMA fighters out there who hybridize tsuki and boxing punch technique in MMA with success so it's not like tsuki does not work. It does and it's designed to be used without gloves. Here's a fun fact: Gloves entirely change the dynamic of a fight.

From a martial standpoint Kalaripayattu is exponentially less effective than wing chun, tai chi and these mostly unproven Kung fu styles. Kung fu may have been battle ready at one point in the past but it has lost its way. Karate on the other hand has many different styles and continues to have a turbulent evolution (right now mostly due to crazy karate politics). A very small minority of fighters use karate and it still has managed to produce champion kick boxers and legendary MMA fighters (yes they DO use karate techniques in their fights). There has even been a few battle hardened karateka that went on to diligently train and learn boxing and eventually become champion boxers as well. You can’t say the same for kalaripayattu. I’m not sure what the bias is that some people have against karate especially in MMA. It’s a very defensive style with excellent footwork, evasiveness, parries and powerful counters executed with precision. The conditioning in Kyokushin is unbeatable and some of these guys are very fast too. You don’t have to just take my word for it go and see for yourself!

I have been a lay practitioner myself even though there would be times where I would practice a whole lot. My practice sessions were rather intense due to all the mental chatter but there were also times of such a profound peace on and off the mat. I even found myself conscious in my dreams on a longer and more consistent basis. If I were willing to abandon everything, completely detached from everything I am as a human being I could see myself going to live in the forests of Thailand then perhaps continuing with these practices would make more sense. There were also times where I would randomly come upon levels of wisdom and insight that would surprise me. I know this to be a result of practice. I may have made rapid advancements in some aspects of practice but I’m not willing to go to such drastic measures. Such levels of detachment are inhuman in my personal opinion.

These results are my own subjective experiences. I cannot say how it’s going to affect others as I could only speak for myself. I have met lay practitioners of over 20 years and they’re perfectly content people. Personally, I am finding its taking me some time to undo the negative effects. On the bright side I don’t think it’s something irreversible.

One needs to look at some of the Buddha’s own words for evidence to see that he could be quite the nihilist. I also found many of the Theravadin monks to be a shell of a person. Their personality and emotions are seemingly blunted. I nearly became like that and immediately ceased practice some time back. I’m now trying to undo some of this.

From my limited perspective I found Taoists cultivate kindness and compassion through inner smile practices instead of Metta. I have found the inner smile practice through the zen school I briefly attended and they emphasize smiling through the middle energy center. Other zen traditions may emphasize different things. We even had a sitting small heavenly circuit practice. The Zen schools are (in my opinion) far more balanced than the elder schools that neglect the physical body. From the zen schools I have learned that the body is an important vehicle and it greatly effects our mental states (A well cultivated mind can also lead to physical well being). According to my zen teachers robust health and a well cultivated physical body is a huge asset for Buddhist meditation practice. It would be wise to take care of it. Theravadins are probably the last people to take advice from when it comes to physical health.

Does energy cultivation itself bring about or facilitate Buddhist enlightenment? Would Taoist energy cultivation make Buddhist concepts such as concentration/insight and familiarization with jhana states easier or more accessible? I'm still very much a beginner when it comes to Taoism and energy cultivation so this is something I would like to discuss.

The techniques and meditations being very few and simple. I feel that one can go deeper into a system this way as we only have so much time in a single day. If there’s so many different things to practice or if it’s unnecessarily complicated it would seem counterproductive. I don’t know if such a system exists but I’m ready to see what’s out there.

It's okay. What you initially suggested is very much appreciated. Thank you.

When the term "visualize" is used I've heard many different things. Some say visualizing just means using your mind intent. Would I be correct? Do you have a visual demonstration from a picture or a video to make sure I will perform the experiment correctly?

I'll give that a good try. Does the direction of the spin come from your mind intent or from the rotation of your fingers?

What systems do you guys practice, have practiced or would recommend to people new to energy practice and consider themselves hopeless? I'm not a fan of qigong or hatha yoga (sleep and dream yoga are the exception) but I'm totally open to neidan. The more simple and integrated the system the better. So far I've found Jikiden Reiki to be extremely simple and unified/integrated at least on the surface. Very few, very easy techniques that interrelate. Unfortunately absolute beginners would have to rely on attunements and COVID-19 didn't agree with those plans so far. I honestly would have given up by now and the only evidence of ki I ever came upon was from this book. Standing in a dimly lit room (lights off in the room but turned on in the hallway) and door partially closed, I would stand behind the door and with two fingers spread from the door and from one another (each an inch apart at eye level) I would then begin to slowly spread my fingers. I would notice a subtle halo around my hands and my fingers and I can extend this "mist of soft light" to an extent until it dissolves. I don't have the level of control as the person in the cover of that book but this is very real. What in the world is that?

This makes perfect sense. I have come upon this information as well. I will most certainly internalize your advice here. Thank you. Renunciation is selfish, unhealthy and severely unbalanced in my personal opinion. The halfway point to asceticism.

I'm trying to see if Buddhist teachings can be made more simple, more applicable, more effective and more accessible for us today without losing the essence and importance of what Shakyamuni Buddha was trying to communicate to us over 2,500 years ago. To be quite honest I've been more and more aligned with Taoist philosophy as of late as opposed to the seemingly nihilistic undertones prevalent in Theravadin Buddhism. Anapanasatti from both the Theravadin and Rinzai Zen tradition has been my main meditation practice. I've also explored joshin kokyu ho. I found it to be very relaxing and very peaceful. No luck with feeling ki unless the slight warmth in the hara and slight magnetism in the hands are my imagination fooling me.

In that case it can almost be considered an exercise in futility. It's like telling someone they have a better chance of winning a lottery by playing compared to those who do not play but have a lesser chance of randomly finding a lost winning ticket. Could this be why most zen schools completely drop jhana practice? It's rather ironic because if I'm not mistaken zen means dhyana. You and I both. I thought I was beginning to lose it due to hyper detachment, becoming "numbed out" and emotionless as well as losing my personality. I cut down considerably on practice time and eventually feels like I've hit a road block. The rinzai way of anapansatti seems more balanced but I can't get the energetics component to "work".

Thanks to everyone for their responses. The reason I ask is because I feel discouraged after learning from a Theravadin monk that Shakyamuni Buddha said enlightenment is only possible through monastic means and lay people will not reach it. I figured there has to be a more practical means of approaching this. Anapansatti has been my meditation of choice for years now but I've never meditated long enough to reach very strong levels of concentration. I've been told jhanas become accessible through long retreats and cultivating this is impractical or unnecessary while fewer teachers say that "dry" vipassana that has become mainstream is watered down Buddhism. To a degree I'm receiving conflicting messages. The Theravada tradition does not concern itself with energy work or even any kind of yoga and qigong (I'm not a fan of either yoga nor qi gong) so perhaps a good neidan system will be more practical for modern day people. The most energy work I've done was reiki level 1 and I gave it up because the ki was not tangible for me so it either made me impatient or caused me to question the existence of these energies. I was going to attend a jikiden reiki course (Reiki is a system of enlightenment discovered by a lay monk and it's rooted in Japanese Tantric Buddhism. The healing modality is a "side effect") but COVID threw that plan straight out the window. Someone suggested Yantra Yoga and I'll look into it. Are there any simple Neidan systems that can also help? The simpler and more unified/integrated the better. I don't believe in having too many practices/techniques/meditations.

What is the major difference between spontaneous qigong and the more formal ones where you adhere to choreographed movements? I'm guessing that spontaneous qigong falls under the category of moving qigong. In that case can these formless forms also be used as a "base" for your moving work? I'm also guessing that this is the case with kunlun. Is one better than the other? If so what are their pros and cons?