Oneironaut

I just found a YouTube comment that goes hand in hand with what you're saying. Here it is (in bold): To stop caring what others think you have to not care. Simple. You won't care if you meditate, control your emotions, and detach from your emotions. All the negative emotions such as fear, stress, anxiety will come up when you live how you want to live so what you need to do is embrace that pain, feel it and allow it to transform you to a stronger person. The more you squash your fears the more they don't hold you anymore. I would recommend everyone to meditate everyday with the intention to "let go" and actually put yourself in those uncomfortable situations to grow. I think these suggestions along with meditation and changing the foundations of my beliefs based on axioms (as someone mentioned earlier) would completely rewire my mind where I can rightfully take control of it.

I think you're onto something here. I notice that corporate America trains their workers into being people pleasers for the sake of good customer service. Doing this day in and day out for many years can really take it's toll on you. It will permeate into other areas of your life outside of work.

Both styles appear very "judo-ish" with their grappling. Sambo seems to have a touch of jujutsu with their locks.

That's awesome. They have some really neat throws and seamless transitions from striking and grappling. I'm going to have to look into it more and find a sanshou school that can teach me that.

Yes, I was indoctrinated in those beliefs from day one. It can take a long while to dissect, change and rebuild my thinking from the ground up but this seems like a very logical and effective approach. Do you have any suggestions on where to begin? Your words resonate very deeply with me. You have incredible insight and wisdom. I choose to be free but where can I take a more active approach to claiming back my own mind? Meditation? Perhaps repeatedly putting myself in tense situations so I can develop the resolve and calm confidence of a battle hardened warrior? Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or hypnosis? I notice that when I'm in social situations I always feel like I'm walking on egg shells. It doesn't matter if I know the person or not but I shouldn't have to live my life carrying this social baggage. “Care about what other people think and you will always be their prisoner.” ― Lao Tzu

What is it? What does it do and how do you do it? I heard Lee Holden speak of creating a pearl to plug into your personal space in the universe. I've also heard other qigong teachers say to pass a pearl over your body. Can someone please link me to a source or clarify?

I want to know the many different neidan schools that are open to teaching folks. Preferably simple ones. Healing Tao from Michael Winn is very complete but it's ridiculously complex. He markets it as not being complicated and says he simplified it ever since his time with Chia but that really isn't the case at all. What other legitimate schools are there?

Hello everyone. I discovered that there are four quadrants in the human body. Front, back, left and right. The microcosmic orbit relates to the front and back channels. Now I want to become a little more familiar with the left and right channels so I have some questions. What is the left and right channel? What purpose does it serve? How do you put it to use? Are there any meditations specifically designed for it?

This has been going on all my life. Sometimes I'll dream of a funeral taking place and I'll have no idea who the funeral is for. Days, weeks or months would pass and once I hear the bad news then it hits me. Recently I've had someone close to me pass away. 3 weeks before that took place I was at home all alone and I was walking down my hall. I heard a violent noise come from the living room window and the shades violently crashed to the ground. I run back because I could of sworn someone was probably trying to break into my home and look at the area and everything was intact. Window wasn't broken, shades were still in place. Everything was normal. I turn on all the lights at home and even look outside and everything was also normal. Now that this person is gone I realize that this is the exact same position of my house (exactly where the violent crashing noise came from) where he had been seated the last time he visited. This is beginning to creep me the hell out. Does anyone have any explanation for this? Why do these things happen?

Come to think of it... I remember dreaming of a particular area and a car accident happening. When I woke up and turned on the news I saw a report taking place that looked oddly similar to the one in my dream. Many landmarks were also present. They mentioned a car accident had also happened and it turned out to be Randy "Macho Man" savage who was involved. I have several other stories that are similar to that one.

Funny that you mention Yokozuna. My brother and I were having a discussion about him a good 24 hours before your post. About 90% of my "warnings" come through dreams. The rest come through random unexplainable events. Exactly one year before a family member passed away I was hearing knocks on my door. I checked and no one was there. As soon as my back was turned the knocks started to happen again. I check again and it builds up to the point where I began playing a game of cat and mouse to see if I can catch the rascal who was playing this annoying game. I was unable to catch anyone because there wasn't anyone there to catch. Other family members who were in there with me even commented on hearing these knocks so I know it wasn't me. As far as the most recent event to have happened... I can't even build a hypothesis around it. I just know other people in my family tend to experience it more than I do. In fact my late grandfather used to own a very big house. It was almost like a mansion. Both my grandparents, aunts and uncles have mentioned that the place was haunted. Several times a week you could easily experience apparitions and all kinds of crazy events that would probably land you in a mental hospital for talking openly about it. Because of that they decided to raze the house. I'm thinking that people can sometimes leave an energetic imprint in places even if they don't mean to. That's as far of a hypothesis that I can build. Wouldn't feng shui have a better explanation? I remember reading about Ikuko Osumi and seiki jutsu and if I remember correctly she was advising one of her students to sprinkle salt and sake and smile at a burial urn because that student had been getting very sick from breaking it.

I've been researching sounds (kototama and Taoist healing sounds) and was wondering if there are any relations between the two. Below in the quoted section is what I've discovered. The sensei being referred to above is Masahilo M. Nakazono. According to the quote above wouldn't this mean that kototama sounds can also be used to ultimately achieve what the Taoist 6 healing sounds are supposed to?

I'll shoot you a private message.

I wholeheartedly agree with the parts on being noiseless (keeping the mind empty) and living/eating in nature with the animals and establishing a connection with nature. What I REALLY NEED right now is a Taoist lineage that can teach me how to communicate telepathically with other humans and other species such as plants and animals. I cannot find a single Taoist lineage that's legitimate and can teach me how to approach this. Why does it have to be so difficult?!? I don't want to be scattered and looking to druids, pagans and rosicrucians to teach me how to cultivate telepathic abilities. I'm specifically looking for a Taoist lineage to teach me so that my practices can be more integrated and systemized instead of scattered around and all over the place. It's ridiculous for Taoist circles to keep these things "secret" when people are more in need of it more than ever. So does anyone know or have any idea where this can be learned? There's gotta be plenty of legit Taoist lineages that can teach this to the average person. Do Taoists use different terminology for what westerners call "telepathy"? Does the Taoist way require the use of the micro/macro cosmic orbit and/or upper tantien? I believe the upper tantien may be what's responsible for telepathic communication (please correct me if I'm wrong). If anyone is willing to help out I'd greatly appreciate it.

I'm noticing my senses "coming to life" through practicing reiki (I'm guessing reiki can fall under the category of qigong). In the past I've had conscious dreams which were more real than waking life itself and through reiki practice I've been experiencing these sensory enhancements on a very mild but noticeable level during my awake hours. It's given more life to life itself and it no longer has that numb deadened feel to it. Has anyone else experienced enhanced sensory perceptions through qigong? I'm only reiki 1 by the way.

I've been looking into the kunlun system. Just found out about it last night through this forum but I don't have a definitive answer as to how good, legitimate and effective it is. I found it because I made the decision to stop with the healing tao system as it is way too complicated and set up in a scholarly manner. It's actually off putting. I'm very pragmatic and drawn to simplicity and something more (doesn't have to be entirely effortless and practical. It seems like it's been a very long time since anyone has said anything about their journey in the kunlun system. For those who follow this system I have the following questions to ask: How are your experiences? Positive? Negative? With its very bold promises of being fast and super effective is the system legitimate?

I currently own the book The Multi-Orgasmic Man by Mantak Chia and while I find it very informative in some ways I also find it very vague in others. I tried doing the PC squeezes to avoid the ejaculatory response and while it does work I also tend to lose my erection every single time. I also have yet to experience a dry orgasm. I have heard cases of others just lightly squeezing the PC muscle and staying at the PONR for as long as they want. The thing is that I don't feel Mantak Chia goes into the specifics. I believe in the book he calls it "The Big Draw". So here I have several questions. 1) Is it normal to lose your erection after avoiding ejaculation through PC squeezes? 2) Is the Taoist MMO technique practical for real life sexual encounters? 3) Where can one learn more about Taoist MMO techniques and the microcosmic orbit? Is the book Taoist Yoga and Sexual Energy by Eric Yudelov a good source? 4) I have heard of cases of people climixing with others (or by themselves) without any physical contact. Where can I learn more about this as well? That's all I have for now. If anything else comes to mind I'll ask. Thanks.

Why would most people not be capable of astral protection no matter how hard they try? If they can dream couldn't they surely astral project? These abilities can be acquired energetically couldn't they? Isn't saying "you won't be able to do it no matter how hard you try" the equivalent of telling them that qigong is useless because they won't be able to cultivate chi no matter how much work and effort goes into the practice? In my opinion allowing folks to know that they can conveniently communicate telepathically with each other, plants and animals as well as knowing what they're capable of through deep meditations (or while their bodies are at rest) can turn them on the spiritual path. Instead we rely on material things and technology (used by governments and corporations to control and enslave us). I'm aware of what Shakyamuni said about getting attached and distracted by these abilities but in today's age the spiritual path is no longer so cut and dry.

Let us know with all sincerity how that approach works out for you. Good luck.

Meditating/visualizing yourself into a dream is a very difficult task. Tenzin Wagnyal Rinpoche addresses the issues newcomers have and seems to guide you by the hands in his book. I haven't really had the chance to put that part of his material to work as of yet as I'm really devoted to mastering the Taoist dreaming techniques at the time of this writing. I don't want to give off the wrong impression and make everyone think that I'm anti-science or anti scientific research. I'm just not a fan of sacrificing the cultivation of a skill set to effortless mastery and perfection for the sake of introducing endless data and theory. In the end all this does is leave you with all this knowledge that you can't really put to use. I'll use myself as an example and I've spoken out against this on a separate post. This is the exact same reason I left healing tao and healing tao doesn't (and likely never will) fit the definition of a science by scientific standards. I'm also not very fond of the arrogance and all the misleading that goes on when they hijack spiritual practices. In my opinion they're almost as bad as those frauds in the metaphysical community (these are the absolute worse) who prey on desperate people for very large sums of money or develop cults. I love science but most of the theory and data can be saved for later in cases like these where SKILL is what you should be working on first. Afterwards you can learn the theory and data if you choose and connect with the information much more deeply and with true understanding. I feel the exact same way about the esoteric material. I'm considered the scientific/analytical type in the offline world and no one in the real world could ever imagine that I would be into qigong,lucid dreaming or meditation as I keep my spiritual life PRIVATE. I guess you could say I was fortunate enough to have have spiritual experiences which has allowed me to keep an opened mind. DreamBliss, I'm with you on developing a lucid dreaming form which is accessible to everyone. At the very least to everyone on this forum. Something that actually WORKS the way we envision it should and won't cost anyone a dime other then their desire to learn it. Maybe we could develop a style of qigong that works in tandem with this. We'll have to see what happens but there isn't any reason for anyone here NOT to experience these energetic planes.

Another thing DreamBliss, If you’re going to consider the western approach to this practice you’re going to have a ton of work and a ton of reading to do. I been on that path before so I can point you in the right direction. Here are the sources you’ll likely need. To build a firm foundation (for western standards) begin with these two books: http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-World-Dreaming-Stephen-LaBerge/dp/034537410X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446692709&sr=8-1&keywords=lucid+dreamin http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Lucid-Dreaming-Power-Supplements/dp/1430305428/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446692732&sr=8-1&keywords=advanced+lucid+dreaming Eventually you’ll need to work with supplements as with the more scientific approach your brain and body chemistry won’t always work in conjunction with your desire to have lucid dreams. There are even times where your dreams will be very fuzzy but supplementation would help to fix that as well as to prolong the dreams themselves. These substances are mostly synthetic and the ones I’ve found to work are choline bitartrate and piracetam. I used those back in college as part of my nootropics stack and they gave me lucid dreams on occasion without even intending on having them. I know another popular one is galantamine however I cannot comment on it as I’ve never used it before. There are also natural herbs that have been used by shamans in indigenous American communities in Brazil such as yerbamate. Shamans in indigenous American communities in the Dominican Republic used dimethlytryptamine (highly illegal substance) to induce out of body experiences and for explorations on the “other side”. Stephen LaBerge’s book was written a long while back and has never been updated. The up to date version of his methods are in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Are-You-Dreaming-Exploring-Comprehensive/dp/0957497709/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1446693330&sr=8-10&keywords=lucid+dreaming I’m also aware that you don’t like meditation but if you’re truly serious about this practice then you would set aside an hour of quiet time to still yourself. I know it’s difficult especially in the beginning. It’s also best to find yourself a teacher but for now here are some books that may help you: http://www.amazon.com/Real-Happiness-Meditation-28-Day-Program/dp/0761159258/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446692483&sr=8-1&keywords=sharon+meditation http://www.amazon.com/Dreaming-Yourself-Awake-Tibetan-Transformation/dp/159030957X/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1446693484&sr=8-4&keywords=alan+wallace http://www.amazon.com/Attention-Revolution-Unlocking-Power-Focused/dp/0861712765/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446693484&sr=8-1&keywords=alan+wallace http://www.amazon.com/Stilling-Mind-Shamatha-Teachings-Lingpas/dp/0861716906/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1446693484&sr=8-5&keywords=alan+wallace Shamatha requires such a great deal of work. It’s not for the feint of heart. I’ve never done it but the amount of dedication truly scared me off and it’s definitely not for westerners. Insight meditation may be all you need but if it really drives you insane then try sensory awareness: http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Vitality-Presence-Awareness-Practice/dp/1556436416/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446691360&sr=8-1&keywords=sensory+awareness If you don’t want to read then try the course below: http://snoozon.com/lucid-dreaming-online-course In the end you’ll probably have to examine all these sources and figure out what works best for you. Instead of spending all that money, accumulating all this knowledge (that won’t translate into lucid dreaming skills) and using up your will power trying an endless array of techniques that may or may not work you should just try and keep things simple. If I were to go back in time and be my own older brother and point myself in the right direction here’s what I would recommend to myself today: 1) The snoozon online course 2) Sensory awareness (the book and the retreat) That’s it! You even have a forum with the online course where you’ll be able to get all the information you need. Just be careful with what you read because if someone tells you something isn’t possible and if they’re wrong then it just becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Sensory awareness on the other hand is a somatic and meditative approach to mindfulness without the strict formality you'll find in zen. Another thing you want to be careful with is putting all your faith on LaBerge's techniques (or anyone else really) as if they're the written word of some supreme being and not having any faith in yourself. I've been there before. The sources I've provided is the best you're going to get when it comes to U.S. culture. When I think about U.S. culture I already see the overwhelming majority of people complaining about how it's too much work or they don't want to meditate. I don't mean to sound rude or as if I intend on being sarcastic but most folks would rather invent a pill or pop on a dream mask before bedtime to "effortlessly" lucid dream than to meditate and cultivate awareness throughout the day. Even setting their intentions would be too much work. I've studied the western methods enough to see how it's nothing more than a cheap watered down version of Tibetan dream yoga. Tibetan dream yoga works and is incredibly powerful but it's better suited for those who are truly devoted to that path. The way Tenzin Wangyal Rinponche presents it perhaps makes conscious dreaming achievable for most westerners who attempt it. I've got enough exposure to the Taoist methods to see how it already boils down what makes conscious dreaming work to it's core essence and on top of that they're just powerhouses of energy. They also work it down to the energetic level. The Taoist methods take work to learn but it's also the most effortless. Bruce Lee once said something along the lines of "Learn technique, apply technique, master technique, forget technique". This is where you want to get to. It's wu wei (the action of non action) at work. Again, I'm not trying to convert you but I am sharing my personal experience. I'm also not an authority (or even a monk for that matter) but a student. I still have a lot to learn and I'm grateful for being shown an authentic path that doesn't rely on the illegitimate teachings by those here in the west who had to go to Tibet to learn THEIR teachings, THEIR techniques and abide by THEIR religion and THEIR culture to swing back west and act like they know these spiritual practices better than the Tibetans themselves. These self proclaimed "experts" and "authorities" here in the west are arrogant beyond belief and it's the furthest thing from intelligence.

DreamBliss, I sincerely apologize for coming off so aggressively. Allow me the chance to explain that I had no intention of coming off as some malicious know-it-all or a self righteous bigot. I'll leave that corrosive attitude and manner of thinking to the western "rational" thinkers. Also, please consider the fact that hammering a belief system, whether political, philosophical or religious, is something I've always been vehemently against and my stance here is no exception. I am not here to forcefully convert anyone into anything and it's likely that you've misjudged my brutal honestly as "hammering down" my beliefs on you. I personally do not believe in Tibetan or Hindu deities and neither am I a fan of chanting or Tibetan singing bowls. Incense however (especially the Japanese kind) can be really fun and I use them to derive a bit of sensory pleasure and relaxation in my free time. That of course is a personal choice and I honestly don't see how it's possible to force something unto you that I don't practice or believe in the first place. Meditation and dream practice on the other hand is something that I have been practicing (on and off) for several years and I’m only trying to make the point that the two are inseparable. If you read The Tibetan Yoga's of Dream and Sleep by Tenzin Wangyal Rinponche he clearly states that ANYONE regardless of faith is able to use the teachings in his book. He also did mention one did not have to believe in Tibetan deities in order for the techniques to work and that it's best to receive oral transmission on the topic. In the book Yoga Nidra by Swami Satyananda Saraswati it was clearly stated that anyone of any background can make use of yoga nidra. Michael Winn clearly stated in his audio course (after a brief talk about Asclepius and the Greek tradition of using dreams) that Christians would feel right at home in his course. I don't see how any of this is forcing one's beliefs unto others. In the book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen LaBerge it's sternly stated as FACT that out of body experiences are themselves lucid dreams and considering them to be anything more than that is just metaphysical baggage. LaBerge and the entire circus of western dream researchers hold their scientific dream theories as the holy grail of truth and their findings are to be unquestioned. Isn't this the "hammering in" that you were trying to avoid? I've stated earlier that conscious dreaming CANNOT be separated from their religious or esoteric origins and I maintain that. In all their kindness we have Buddhist, Hindu and Taoist teachers revealing their techniques to us and offering the flexibility to remove all kinds of cultural practices, deity worship and rituals and only adhering to what works. Remember that this was all derived from meditative practices and spirituality so no matter how much you try to eliminate or modify those components it's ALWAYS going to retain that spiritual element from which it originated from whether we like it or not. After all conscious dreaming IS a form of meditation. It’s just a different form of meditation than daytime meditations where you have a sense of stability because you retain your “woken up” ego state. When you go to sleep that “woken up” ego state has no stable foundation and it dissolves into that state of blackness and nothingness that we call sleep and sleeping is not meditation. These spiritual teachings are being handed to us (free of dogma, rituals and the worship of deities) to be made our own even though they are typically taught within the framework of their cultural and esoteric origins. No one is trying to convert you and when you take and apply what works for you it doesn’t make it any less of a spiritual practice from which these teachings originate from. I personally prefer the conscious dreaming framework offered by the Taoists as it boils everything down to their core essence. They don’t worship deities but view them (the deities) as crystallized chi. The Taoists prefer to tap into these energies instead and emphasize working with the energy body through qigong and cultivating awareness through lucid living. Lucid living is more important than lucid dreaming yet makes conscious dreaming a natural part of your life. The Tibetans on the other hand have the best methods to prime your psychology specifically for conscious dreaming while the western stuff is a watered down version of Tibetan foundational practices and is more involved with data, theory and more information oriented. You can go on and on with data and theory forever and really not get anywhere. Conscious dreaming is NOT about how much you know it’s about skill. If you don’t think chi/ki exists then that’s fine. In that case the Taoist methods may not be for you so try looking at the Tibetan foundational practices and those will take you very far. I had my first lucid dreams when I was 7 – 11 years old. They were infrequent and all very short and I would suddenly wake up seconds after realizing I was in a dream. These days I have them on random and very isolated occasions when I have no intent on having them in the first place. I have years of personal experience in the western approach to lucid dreaming. I started off with the methods proposed by Stephen LaBerge and to be honest that approach is far from keeping it simple. I’m not going to point all the blame onto him as it seems the Tibetan approach requires a great deal of diligence and determination (like spending many weeks inside a dark cave and hours of complex visualizations and meditations) and the western approach is modeled after the Tibetans but modified specifically for westerners and their lifestyles. The western approach however takes an already complex system and modifies it to make it unnecessarily complex in other ways by introducing all this unnecessary theory and data. In the end they are just taking eastern esoteric practices that they can more or less prove to work and adding a “scientific and authoritative” spin to it. The western approach is distilled and “easier” than it’s Tibetan parent but it’s also very demanding, limiting and results are not very consistent. I understand how someone who is looking forward to becoming a conscious dreamer can get deeply depressed and melancholic when confronted with what I’ve said earlier. Conscious dreaming is one of the most ecstatic, blissful, exhilarating (and equally peaceful), hyper sensory (can be more real than life itself), heavenly experiences one can have in their lives. Your capacity for love and pleasures of the senses is infinitely expanded. Your vision is pristine beyond what you ever thought possible, colors become much more vibrant and alive, you have true clarity of mind and you discover true freedom. It’s extremely addicting and words alone will never do it any justice. It’s something that must be experienced to fully come to terms with the very limited experiences I’m sharing. The fact remains however that this will always remain a spiritual practice at it's core and it will take work consisting of meditation, priming your psychology and energy work. Hopefully you’re willing to put in some work in at least the first two as these will build a firm foundation. In the western methods you'll be at the mercy of psychological tricks to induce these states of consciousness with no guarantee of consistent success. If you don't like traditional meditation try the works of Charlotte Selver and please show some respect for the Tibetans and the dream teachings/techniques for which they were kind enough to share with the world. We can strip the esoteric, cultural and religious origins from the dream teachings all we want to match our own but we'll be forever indebted to them even though they'll never ask for anything in return.

Does he also teach yoga nidra? Dream yoga and yoga nidra go hand in hand beautifully. I'm making the taoist dream techniques my primary framework to build this practice on. I personally find it to be more effortless and deeply covers more ground with less work. I'm also more drawn to working with the tanden/dantian system than the chakra system. Even though the taoist dream practice is a very complete system I'm still very interested in seeing how the hindus and buddhists do their dreamwork just so I can compare and perhaps learn something new that I may be able to incorporate. I think that the Buddhists put a heavy emphasis on dream practice specifically for the purpose of being able to recognize the state of death. Taoists may have a completely different approach like immortality and merging with the macrocosmos (sun, earth, moon, stars etc). Taoists may also be more forgiving (perhaps even encourage) on using dream practices for pleasure, experiences, adventures, sources of inspiration and entertainment. The dzogchen guys look down on it and find it to be a distraction. I could be wrong on these generalizations. At the end of the day it's about doubling your life. Immortals do not sleep. How can something that is conscious in the sleep and dream state be unconscious? The ones who go through their sleep and dream life unconscious are those who are asleep and unaware (as if in a trance) in their "waking" lives. This reminds me of Shakyamuni when he was asked if he was a spirit, god or a man and his response was "I am awake". It's the same with conscious dreaming. If you are truly awakened in your waking life then you will bring that awareness with you into the energetic dream space. You also bring more of that awareness of the dream space with you back into your waking life. Really amazing how this works.

Conscious dreaming CANNOT be separated from its spiritual/esoteric component regardless of whether it's from a Buddhist or taoist background. Can it work without? Yes. But you will have very limiting and varying results and it will reach the point to which it'll make your attempts futile. Stephen LaBerge took the Tibetan foundational practices, stripped it out of its spirituality and added a few psychological tricks. His dream mask does not work and is a complete waste of time and money. One major component to successful dream practice is mindful awareness. This can be achieved through shikantaza or vippashyana meditation. Both spiritual practices. LaBerge's method relies on heavy and artificial forcing of awareness that has very limiting results in the end. By working on mindful awareness and getting it to the point that it's at an enlightened level then conscious dreaming becomes effortless. After you become proficient through practice effortless is the way it's meant to be. Dream practice is a yin practice. The yang element is nothing more than the expression of your will. Your intention. Intention is a very important element in dream practice. Have the intention to remember your dreams. Have the intention to become conscious in your dreams. Have the intention to recharge as you sleep consciously (taoist power napping and yoga nidra) and the intention to wake up at a certain time so that you reinforce remembering your nightly journeys. This is also a spiritual practice. Even more so when you make intentions by moving the energies in your body through the microcosmic orbit. As far as using ki is concerned, this is very important in the taoist dream practice because it elongates the window of opportunity to create an intention to dream consciously right before you zonk out. You're taking the narrow strip between waking consciousness and dream consciousness (call it a neutral force) and making it longer so that you have the opportunity to set your intention to dream, have the equivalent of 8 hours rest in just 4 or travel through energetic planes. The Tibetans like to visualize a lotus flower with a bright red/Orange flame burning in the middle. This flame is supposed to represent the light of awareness. I greatly admire the Tibetans and their visualization skills. They reach the point to which they can close their eyes and recreate the physical world in their visualizations in all 5 senses vividly. These advanced visualizations are done in the waking state and can be used to literally meditate yourself into a dream. Ironically the Tibetan practices are much more psychologically practical then the spiritually void and handicapped psychological tricks proposed by LaBerge and the western circus of "rational" thinkers. Even the taoist approach of lucid living (cultivation of awareness) is an infinitely more logical approach. The Taoist approach works with the energy body throughout the day and emphasizes qigong a lot more which is also more conducive to conscious dreaming. You don't need to wake up feeling punch drunk at 2:30 or 5:30 a.m. to write half a dozen boring dream journals, perform 500 different reality checks a day or work on ridiculous exercises like prospective memory. Forget about that. If the western psychological B.S. is going to be your main approach of becoming a proficient and skilled lucid dreamer you will find yourself very disappointed in the end. Again, the western techniques are very varying and super limiting. Very mentally taxing with very little reward for ALL your hard work and effort. If you're looking for sources I suggest getting anything put out by Tibetan or taoist dream practitioners. I think Tenzin Wangyal Rinponche gives courses online. On the taoist side I think Juan Li is the guy you wanna go to. Juan makes himself a little bit difficult to reach unfortunately. Michael Winn sells an audio course. Expensive and also frustrating because it's so long and disorganized and comes with so much filler. If you have the patience his can work also. The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace emphasizes meditations such as shamatha and vippashyana. Both forms of meditation are firmly grounded in spiritual practices and very useful for conscious dreaming because they build concentration and mindful awareness. I personally think that zen style meditations are more practical because you simultaneously build both concentration and mindfulness in a balanced manner. It's also useful for learning to suspend your thoughts and controlling the monkey mind. Ironically the zen schools could care less about conscious dreaming.

I learned about group dreaming in Michael Winn's audio course. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with it. I don't have anyone to help me experiment with this so if anybody who is familiar with it wants to give it a shot sometime let me know.