satsujin

I am somewhat confused by the concepts of self-remembering and vipassana(mindfulness) meditation. One says be aware of the sense of "am-ness"(without verbalizing it) whatever you are doing. The other says give full attention to whatever you are doing without letting your thoughts distract you. However, according to Osho, they are the same. But one seems to send attention inward while the other is outward. I cannot do both at the same time so they must be different. Am I misunderstanding something ?

Almost every report of someone who claims to have achieved enlightenment ( or god-realization) is described the same way. It always has the element of losing the concept of the self in the many. Being one with everything & everyone. Since most New Age spiritual practices present the concept of God being everything, this is taken to mean that a person has become one with God. However, other than this "God is everything" concept, what is making us associate this experience with God, whatever God is supposed to be? I have recently been considering the concept of the herd mentality of humanity. Science has put forward the idea that this element exists as a leftover from our evolution from a herd species. I am certain this element exists from my own personal experiences to need to conform to mass society and also the existence of mob mentality which I need to research further. Perhaps I can state one example of the still existing herd mind in me: When I put my movie rankings on Criticker, I always have a number decided before visiting the site but once I get there and see rankings of others or its average, I feel the need to adjust my score to match theirs. I can fight this urge but it will always present itself initially as an automatic mental effect. So perhaps what we currently call enlightenment is simply an example of this herd mind element in the brain completely gaining control for a little while? I don't know. Just an idea that occured to me. Would love to hear your views.

One I have often pondered but still found no resolute answer for. But what do I know? I am a trust fund baby living a sheltered existence with no challenges in life. I don't even need to cook or do laundry. I also experience a a lot of self-guilt and self-hate and only recently realized this. I am lucky to have the luxuries I have in life but still experience discontentment with my life because many times I feel no purpose to it. It only seems to fly by when I am involved in something that is offering me challenges to my mind. Ever since looking more into spirituality I have experienced general contentment with what I have now whether I feel a purpose or not but still frequently worry over hypothetical what-ifs of the future that I can't control. This is a weakness I am trying to overcome. But slowly.....hell, I have all the time in the world anyway.

Not sure I understand what you are saying, 3Bob. Is it that the idea of purpose is an illusion that we can break free from?

I understand your post to be your outline of what enlightenment was for you. What is enlightenment for one possibly need not be the same for another even though many recountings from different people have very similar elements. As to your question, I'm not sure what you are asking. If you mean why I am in this forum, it's just an interesting place to bounce weird ideas that occasionally pop into my head. If you are asking for my purpose in life, I'm not sure I have one. I realize society generally deems one necessary to find happiness in life but I am not sure this is true. It certainly makes life more interesting, I'll give it that.

I guess thats the problem with personal experiences, Spotless. Only YOU know what they are like. However the opening of your third eye even involves elements like weight change which I have not heard other so called Awakened ones speak of but it is a way to prove to others that something significant, even if only physical, happened. Also, it seems to me that for all your claim of being in communion with everything, you still say you see things like pecking orders in people when they speak to you. I may not be Enlightened but fortunately I don't automatically see this when I speak to someone so maybe Enlightenment isn't all it's cracked up to be. As for "willing to consider what as a possibility", I just meant the initial thrust of my first post which was the "Oneness with All" might be an effect of Herd Mind in the brain.

I understand that those who have undergone the experience of enlightenment may not be willing to consider this as a possibility. And I am not one of them so I can't speak for the experience. But what really changes about you after the experience? One of the things you state above is loss of fear. But didn't you take this viewpoint during your practice even before the experience? But not having undergone the experience personally, I admit I could just be talking out of my rear end.

True, how can you be one with everything if there is a you to experience that. But you can be part of everything. That seems a more rational explanation of the experience. Part of a group. Belonging to something bigger than the self while still being aware of the self. That would match the herd mind. But this is all conjecture on my part anyway! Does anyone know if someone has looked into concept more deeply? Some writings or somesuch?

I don't think herd mentality is always driven by fear. I think it arises more out of a sense to belong. Certainly, the self always wants to BE instead of becoming lost but there is also a lot of times a sense to be part of something. Herd mentality is not a unstoppable force if you realize that it can control you if you let it but even more conscious minds have a philosophy or concept of self beliefs that they associate with others and possibly want to be a part of. However, my idea is that what we call enlightenment is a temporary takeover of the consciousness by the subconscious of the herd mind.

Shintoism has similarities with Tao according to my limited knowledge. However, this was also the primary religion in Japan during the time of Japan's nationalism and sense of superiority over other countries that led to the great World War II. How did roots in such a peaceful philosophy and way of life lead to this mentality in the people and involvement in the war?

Hmmm, this link seems to indicate the problems somewhat. Seems like the government tried to use it for it's own benefit and it let itself be used. Still, not clear on how they got the idea if they followed the way of life honestly. http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/shinto/history/nationalism_1.shtml

I have noticed that I have several distractions to keep my mind busy. Reading, movies, music, internet. A busy mind indicates a mind that is not content. At least, busy with distractions like these. I live a pretty solitary life so maybe on some level I need these. But I would like to see how my thinking changes without these. So, as a start, I am going to see if I can do without Internet for a week. Even as I read books, I have the urge to look up info regarding what I read, on the net. The result of being a child of the Information Age. So, let's see if this is possible. If I post before next Friday, you will know for sure that I have failed.

Well, I went into withdrawal in the middle of the week and splurged on net browsing. But I was able to avoid it for the rest of the days. I also didn't watch any of the videos(TV series, movies, youtube) on my computer. But the fact that I broke my fast at some level proves that I'm still addicted to net being a child of the Info age. Spent most of the rest of my time walking, reading or snoozing.

Last night I had a dream where Batman stops fighting criminals(I forget why) and while he is lying doing nothing police captain Gordon makes videos showing him fighting criminals to cover for him. When Batman finally realizes he has been inactive too long he starts getting ready to fight but finds out he has been lying in his socks too long that he has trouble walking now becuase he has foot fungus. My interpretation of the dream is my subconscious fear that I will confuse passiveness with inaction in the path of Tao. In my current life, I am lucky that I don't need to do much to live a comfortable life since most of my needs are cared for. So, the way I understand it Tao for me will be accepting the life I have(easy because it is so simple, hard because of the conflict of pride on being dependent) and living passively while reacting to the problems that may crop up as I flow along with the current of my life without railing against it. I am new to Tao so I am sure I am making mistakes. Any books you folks can recommend on this wu-wei aspect of Tao for the beginner?

Thanks Wayfarer. I like how you explained that! It reminds me of how I am content in my life currently but since I have no specific purpose in life except to BE content, from time to time, I get the worry that what if in the future I become bored with life and that leads to discontentment. Your piece makes me think that this worrying about the future when it has not happened yet and everything is fine now is just negative thinking. Makes me think that I should accept the goodness I have now and deal with any changes that may appear AS they happen.....if they do even happen!

Hello TaoBums and other users, I am 36 year old epileptic man. Still unemployed and dependent on my parents. The few times I held a job I started becoming unconscious at work. Got to the point where even my father refused to hire me. My doctors claim stress is the trigger to my seizures. I have also had a few psychotic episodes. In a few months, they are going to assign me to an assisted living facility somewhere in India. Not sure about the details. I will become a trust fund baby when they pass away but they don't believe I can survive on my own. I never thought of myself as disabled, I am not sure if I should fight against this path or accept it until it is no longer an option. I am currently reading The Empty Boat and The Pathless Path by Osho. Only a little way in but makes for interesting reading. Hope I can ask question about my doubts and get clarifications through this forum, Regards, Anoop Alex

Because I have had to admit to myself that I don't want to work unless I need to. That I what I am currently. I can force myself to work against my wishes but that would be going against my nature. And with no major beneficial purpose. It would certainly not be the path of least resistance. My guilt comes from wondering if I would work even if needed to or would I prefer to be a drifter. But such hypothetical thinking is only negative, I think. I won't worry about what might happen in my life until it does happen. They don't say it is because they are getting fatigued. They say it is because they want me settled in before they pass away. Of course, they could just be saying that not to hurt my feelings. And my father will work whether I am at home or not so sending me away makes no difference there.

The only way I could get job now is by online freelancing; not at a physical location. And programming has changed a lot since I learned it 10 years ago. I have tried learning new skills but I also have a memory problem which is a very common issue for many with epilepsy. I have looked at sites like ODesk and Elance without finding much opportunity but perhaps I should look harder. I don't think you can safely assume that without having lived here. Sharjah in UAE. I admit I can come up with a lot of reasons with why I shouldn't be working. Maybe they can all be reduced to "I don't want to." But it is true that I also don't need to. Should I force myself to work because of society's general views or should I learn to accept myself as I am?

If only it were as easy as that.....how do we know when it is our Divine Nature speaking and when it is our ego? I live in a xenophobic Muslim country. There are no wise men here but I have access to a plethora of books online and this site also of course. In any case, since my interest in Tao, my current goal is to learn more about myself. I'm not sure if that a goal with an end or more like an ongoing change of view in lifestyle choice.

What motivates me in life is simple: I wish to be content. Even though I live a good life I worry frequently about the future. I also wish to understand myself better.

Then what is the path you suggest I take? I have no money, I can't drive, there is no public transport except expensive cabs where I live, I am prone to seizures and I only have computer programming skills. Where will I make money to support myself? I have already discussed this issue with my parents many times. They do not WISH me to work. Maybe after they pass away I can look into supporting myself since then it won't upset them. Chances are, however, by that time I will be in my 40s without any prior job experience.

Any free books that impart the same message?

@gendao I have often wondered(more recently than before) if I use the Victim mentality as a crutch to avoid taking responsibility in my life. Recently I had to admit to myself that I was lazy and this was not an easy thing to admit to oneself. This is true however because I dont need to work. I am happy to work when there is a need but in my current life the only time that need crops up is is helping my family with household chores. I live as an expatriate in country where my father won't let me work with him and finding other jobs is not easy since I only have a high school degree especially since the employer has to provide a work permit to stay in the country. I have finished 3/4 years of Computer Science degree at University of Toronto but had to stop and leave the country before completion because my seizure activity became serious at that time. I never accepted myself as a victim of my circumstances fully until my parents told me about 3 weeks ago that they didn't think I had the skills to live on my own in India. I lived by myself with the Don Bosco volunteer group in Kochi for 2 months on my own in India in mid-2014 but left when I got bored with it. Almost all paid jobs I've done resulted in resurgence of seizure activity. I have no money of my own so need to pay for my large amount of anticonvulsants, anti anxiety and antipsychotic pills somehow. I looked into freelance work online but that leads to the issue of deadlines and quotas which increases my stress. Also, the medications I've taken over the years severely affect my long term memory ability which affects my ability to work. Unlike Western families, Asian families tend to stick together even when the children are grown up. I am willing to consider any options you or others may suggest......however, I also ask would you work if you didn't need to especially in areas that you didn't enjoy? @rainbowvein I suspect a lot of the bad mouthing Osho gets is from people who didn't get what they expected by him or from the govt. that felt threatened by him. My father knew Osho well as a good friend before he became famous and met him again for a couple days after his return to India from his US exile and said he still respected the man. Christoper Calder is also known to spread a lot of lies about him like being an addict, abusing women, praising hitler and letting power go to his head.

Thanks for the positive welcome folks. Looking forward to learning here. @GMP Will check out the book, thanks. Find reading Osho to be really interesting. @kio Always thought shamans got more of their experience through mind altering drugs.