blue eyed snake

thanks

point taken But I would wish you tagged this phenomena different, no offence meant, but a placebo doesn't work. it's just a name for a not understood phenomena that regular science doesn't care to explore. I suppose that's why i conjured up some categories doesn't sound elitist to me, maybe you want more than you will get, just human Reading this, I think I'm not reneging, I think you overestimated me. But I pull the line at carbon monoxide. and the last line is another reason for tagging this phenomena as unexplained healing or something like that. On the more funny side, you wrote something that it would be nice to be able to clear the backyard of vermin this way. I did, well, not my backyard but an unexpected invasion of very large, shiny black beetles in my living-room. Just after my divorce, my ex had just left and these buggers came up. Mind you, i had been living in that house for say 15 years, never seen big beetles before. A friend of mine told me I should make the place my home again, that these critters would then move out. I took that as good psychological advise, I did feel uprooted in my own house ( I stayed there for the kid, we both deemed that better, but at that moment I loathed it). But didn't believe that the beetles would move out, I had already asked the drugstore what to do about it.... To my utter amazement, 3 days later there was no beetle in sight, only thing I'd done was give myself the feeling of, this is my home. I bought flowers, cleaned up more mindfully, that kind of things. So, maybe i'll develop sending out mice in the next ten years, BES

-

yes, that is what i experience, kind of roadsign

well, i should have expected that ;-) the human entity is complex, the body can become sick and it can (and will) die. If exposed to enough carbonmonoxide it will stop functioning, So it is now. I tend to agree with you, that in principle, for entity's with maximum control over matter, this could be different.But those entity's i've not met. It starts with knowing, not only believing, that you're capable of that, that's very rare... For me it's a matter of balance and sensitivity. When I was a child i got another room in the house. Then winter came and i found that i became sluggish in my room, that i couldn't do my homework as before. So I went to my father and told him this, and that I thought there's something wrong with the gasstove. And so it was...the repairman fixed it and told my father that he should be happy his daughter was still alive. That's sensitivity, I didn't die, I moved out of the way before it could take me. and, for you i think explains the curtness of my post. balance, we all have a little control over matter, some more than others. Our body is that part of the universe that we have the most control over ( or should have). But that body is just a fragile sack of water and proteins. It gets hurt very easily. It's a wonder in itself that we survive in this world, fragile as we are. bad food, pollution, electromagnetic smog, emotional stresses all take their tool on the body. Some people are far more healthy than others. They take better care of themselves ( or are in a less dangerous environment, not everybody has the possibility to choose were to live.) People do qigong, yoga etc to alleviate the burden of life. medicine, Brian wrote something about the way placeboeffect and effect of tested drug are handled statistically. The best way we know of. Statistics have nothing to do with individual persons, only with groupeffects. I'm no doctor but a lot of drugs simply work, they have influence on the biological functioning of the body or direct effect on invading bacteria. But body's are very different from each other, that means the effect of a given medicine has different effects on people. Not just bodyweight, also age, general health, gender, metabolism to name a few. And of the placeboeffect. The placebo is an uncontroversial support for this. I don't think that the totality of placeboeffect is uncontroversial support for it, a very small portion at best. I've never really thought of it but shooting from the hip i suppose this effect can be parted in several categories. 1) people who are not sick in the usual meaning of the word, meaning they feel bodily pains, there are no bodily problems to be found. They need human attention, love in my opininon. In bad cases this can become a sickness in itself. If that is the case family doctors can give a plecebopill, and feel that that is the best thing to do. These people have no bodily disfunction so there is no question of mind over matter 2) people who have real but not severe bodily problems, on some of them a placebo would work, on others not. Might be the spontaneous reaction of the body, might be belief in the doctor might be that selfhealing ( in the conventional meaning of the word, just the body, repairing itself) is quickened. I think these two are the biggest part of the group 3) and then it becomes interesting,I know of a reported case of brainsurgery, i admit i don't remeber exactly but it was a new technicque for alleviating i think bodytremors caused by a to low function of one of those peanuts in the brain. Because new they made a controlgroup. These people were operated upon, but didn't get the real treatment, just a little hole in the head. Knew that beforehand, some peole will get the real operation, others wont. Everybody of the controlgroup will get the treatment if it is deemed effective. One lady of the controlgroup was really much better after that....and happy, yes, i got the real treatment. That's interesting. But what changed was the severity of the tremors, not the imparted brainfunction, so i doubt if i will call that mind over matter. And later she had the real operation done. 4)people who heal themselves from severe, incurable diseases. to me, that is (conscious) selfhealing. That can be called mind over matter. But, even thouhg i've not made a study of it. I think that that is not the placeboeffect but praying, affirmation, consciousness is involved there. And it's a miracle!! makes me happy, especially as i'm going to be one of them :-) If I am blindfolded then told my skin is being stroked by nettle leaves then I will come out in a rash, even if it were really dock leaves. interesting, only thing i can say about it is i know that the nocebo-effect is much stronger than the placeboeffect. kind regards BES

you sound better now, that's good. Proceed carefully

yeah, you're hearing it right. and I did go to women's cultivation, that was one of the reasons to join this club

well spoken!

excuses accepted, no offense taken and no offense intended the 'what' of what you wrote is bit beside the point i think, but the keywords you used touched home-base, ooow.. That said, the way you put it was, indeed, too blunt. That can cause people to eh...get in their corner and not to come out of it again. The " that's not me reflex.." That's not what you wanted obviously. In my job ( some time ago, I'm without one now) I use kind of the same intuition. When you look at patterns and words used. You can intuit what is beyond the question at hand. I mostly try to just mention those keywords, carefully. Like: I hear you say these things, does that mean something to you? and then going along with the ' topside question' When they're ripe for it people will come back to this ' keywordquestion' because they know, deep down, there's something to be won. When they're not ripe for it, best leave it alone ( or you'l get to be thrown in the pit ) I hope I explained well what I meant, I find I have more difficulties to express myself in English than I expected.

thanks for another warning, I hesitated to join the forum because of that wild-west, I've been reading for some weeks as a guest. It's good there is a pit, it's also good that the whole business of the mindf***g TTBs is there. Gives another vision on what actually happened... But there seem to be some balanced and knowledgeably people around here too, so I took my chance . As I understand your advice, it is good and can be generalized. Since I've been fiddling around with energy things happen, new sensations etc. first reaction is indeed, to limit it to energy phenomena. But now i read your post i think. Energy is a new factor, but body, mind, emtions and that new factor interrelate to each other, so keep a broad vision of what things can be. When it is not clear, it might reveal itself later. The later I know to be true about seeing things. At first it freaked me out. Then I wanted to know what it means. By now it feels like, most of the time the meaning reveals itself spontaneously, when not, time will come to make it clear. nothing to bother about.

thank you Bluemind, if it is the same as MCO, it doesn't need theoretical explaining anymore

and exactly that is where your story is helping me right now, the road is hard at the moment, it will take a long time before I'm well again. I accept that, but at that time the learning of keeping your spirit up ain't easy. thank and you too, success with learning how to keep your spirit up in hard times. Today, I see it as a lesson to be learned, BES

I like this post from Daeluin very much, I don't know anything about all the chinese wisdom of chi and what it can do for the human body and soul. But I'm very interested. At the same time I find I'm happy my teacher doesn't tell us a damned thing, he looks at us, smiles and says: "Just feel what is happening inside." And when you're on the verge of something, he gives a hint as to how to proceed. I see what he can do and I know he's willing to teach anybody of us that is willing, working and humble. On our tempo and starting level. For me, all strange kinds of energetic experiences began about 3 years ago after I had forgiven someone what he did to me. 30 years ago. I was just reading in 'the way of the golden elixer', thanks to the one who posted that, nice forum! and I read: "In the way of superior virtue, the state prior to the separation of the One into the Two and into multiplicity is spontaneously attained, and the fundamental Unity of the precelestial and the postcelestial domains is immediately comprehended." for me that sums it up nicely. But I would still like to know what the word/abbreviation SHO means, BES

even though some parts of this discussion are going over my head, other parts I find very interesting. Could someone please inform me about the meaning of the word/abbreviation SHO? thanks

I admit to a suspicion that scientists in general think along the lines of humans are stupid creatures. But what I miss in talking about the placebo-effect is that it is not limited to the person who gets it described. The family and friends are involved in it. simple example, worried mom goes to family-doctor with very sick small child. Doctor has a comforting attitude, describes medicine, now you'll get well. Worries mum are lessened and this will surely have an effect on the child.

thanks for the warning, but it's just like the real world I suppose

I read the original post when it fell in my mailbox. I see you edited your post to soften the message. Took me some time to digest, first because your choice of words is difficult to me, I'm no native english speaker. When it became clearer to me what you mean it did, initially, hurt. But I can see truth in it You have a sound intuition. thank you

Hello spiraltao, thanks for posting your story, I'm happy for you and it gives me much hope. The condition of my liver is not as bad as yours was but still.... Friends and family tell me I'm crazy for thinking medical qigong can be of any use to me. But I can feel it's working and your post gives me strength, to go on and do what I can feel that my body needs. wish you a long and healthy life, BES

fot Marblehead blue eyed snake, on 19 Jan 2015 - 13:38, said: Then i could say: My path is creating itself as interaction between me and the Tao, with as corollary, that the path doesn't stretch before me, because it appears ( and disappears) the moment that I'm treading it. Yes, that's good. Now forget the path and don't even think about a destination. Now, what do we have left? Life and living. Thank you, I will go on living, enjoying rainbows, butterflies and beautiful women in bikini, at the same time enduring the inevitable pain and dreariness. BES

this is a very interesting conversation between chidragon and Song Yongdao, thanks! BES

thanks all three of you, Chang writes basically, it is an energy related thing, and probably will go away after some time. By the way, it is not enjoyable, but it doesn't bother me either, just curious what it could be and if people recognize it. A&P gives a like comment, that he's been looking for a potentially explanation of the ringing in his ears and found that it is probably related to energyblokkages. Same curiousness as mine, also a juniorbum That ringing sounds not like tinnitus to me, I have experience with that. your experience is somewhat like to mine though. I found grounding exercises and while meditating closing the MCO helpful. Everything you can do to bring that energy down. The sound I hear is not in the ears, but in the middle of my head...It's sharp and wet and ends in a vibrating thing, at the same time very short, a second or so. Has the effect of a school-bell at the moment you were so nicely daydreaming about something definitely not related to school Nestentrie says to me, why should it matter, just let it be...if I understand it correctly. Sound advise, that time will probably come, but for now I'm looking for people with whom I can share a little of what I'm feeling/experiencing. BES ___________________________________________ There is only one truth, but it has many manifestations

Hi there, I was trying to combine two statements and, foreseeable, ended up with rubbish so I give it another try, for this year the last one.... bear in mind that I'm new to these kinds of things, until a year ago i never even thought that there might be more to me ( there we go again ) than body and mind. if I define " I " as the entity that consists of body, mind , energy and spirit. and I define " the way" as eh...universal mind, God (?) Tao, emptiness/vastness whatever, you get the idea. Then i could say: My path is creating itself as interaction between me and the Tao, with as corollary, that the path doesn't stretch before me, because it appears ( and disappears) the moment that I'm treading it. have fun with it. BES ___________________________________________ There is only one truth, but it has many manifestations

hi Edward, i felt reluctant sharing but came to the conclusion there is no reason not to share. To understand it I must tell you that, until say 3 or 4 years ago I was a very analytically kind of woman, always thinking and scared of feeling. Meditation, chinese healing, yoga i thought of as, strange things some people do, there are probably delusional or something like that. Then I found the word silence, the sentence go into the silence, find the silence cropping up in my life. It was everywhere, whether a fresh date ( from a datingsite, never seen the man before) who told me to find the silence, sitting in the metro, a magazine with text, it kept cropping up. Almost daily. At the same time I began to experience eh...involuntarily meditation, when I was in nature I became the trees, the water, the clouds, scared the hell out of me. I mean, I didn't start meditating, meditating started me... This things have been happening for a bit over a year, then there came a day that I sat down, closed my eyes and tried to find that silence. Since that day I wasn't bothered anymore. so, quite different from your experience, but I can tell you, when it happened I didn't know what to make of it. rereading your text though, It's like the initial foxes have tot do with changes. Smoking a joint- not smoking anymore the millenniumnight strong experiences, and a promise that you broke and in your answer to my first post you write " I felt maybe it was a sign of dishonesty on my part. " ( see. there is the analytical mind again...) that you're dreaming of them doesn't surprise me, you're seem to be concerned abou the whole thing. Suggestions ( but no more than that!) were you dishonest? and if yes why. And to whom, to yourself? or to somebody else , or both. What, if any has this broken promise to do with the foxes. and what change is lying before your feet? but to find an answer, don't use your rational mind as I do now... For me, promises are difficult things, I try not to make them anymore,. They can turn out nasty, whether you keep them or break them. peace be with you _________________________________________ there is only one truth, but it has many maifestations

" I may be occasionally following 'the signs'. But I have the sense that I am forging a path, not following one. The Path and The Traveler, together make The Way." and "No one follows a path, as there is no person and no path. Or, one might say we are all follwers of causality" both interest me. I mean, granted that the 'I' is an illusion, still, to me it feels that that same 'I' tries to enter the silence ( for want of a better word) thereby aiming at...eh...making that ' I' less important, less influential. But that 'I' is still needed to do whatever is needed to loose it. I find that a baffling thing. for me, now, it feels as if the path is creating itself in interaction with me, something like that. Hence, what is happening is, indeed, neither path nor person but the interaction between two nonexistent entities...eh, this stuff is just not fit to put in words, but it keeps intriguing me.

for Dawg, interesting, among a lot of other things you write: " but the Hindu tradition considers raising the Kundalini using any method, as reaching enlightenment… in Buddhism raising the Kundalini is called a “Brahmin Awakening”, because it temporarily pushes aside your delusion and gives you a taste of awakening, but then the delusion reasserts itself, and returns and the awakening fades away… and you are right back where you started… but with the Buddhist awakening, you destroy the delusion, so it is permanently gone… " Yes, it does indeed temporarily push aside the worldview/illusions you had before that time. But I would venture to say that it does change something permanently. I'll never forget it and since that time I feel I'm more open in meditation. Also , when I come really ensnared in the illusion there comes a moment that I realize that it is an illusion, just me, making problems for myself. And that is a feeling, not a cognition, feels like an improvement in dealing with daily shit. anyway, thanks for writing this, clears something up for me.