seekingbuddha

Ya Mu,

   I just found this thread.  Did not read all 29 pages, so perhaps my question is a repeat:   For someone with only basic exposure to  Qigong,  what is the step by step incremental learning, in your system ?  How much each step would cost ?  I assume each step requires attending your workshop, since you have mentioned that it is the only proper way to learn your system.  Since i live far away,  if  learning from your DVD is of  use (as a beginner to your system),  let me know what is the use in purchasing your DVD as opposed to  coming to one of your workshops.  Thank you.

I was saddened to hear about Tibetan monks who get into monasteries as children.  This is simply wrong because Buddha himself  did not admit any children into his order of monks (except for Rahula, his child).   I have seen serious personality problems in people who got into boarding schools as children (because their parents were rich).  A child needs to grow up with the mother for sometime for emotional formation, no matter how difficult the circumstances - otherwise, the child grows up into an adult with emotional  issues to struggle with later in life.  My limited understanding of  these buddhist countries tells me that the main reason the children are put into monasteries at young age  is because  these countries  have  proper education & food  only  in monasteries.   Hence due to economics and cultural pressure,  parents put the children in monasteries.  

As far as the healing process goes, i do believe that any system needs to incorporate body as well as mind.  Since these two are interconnected and inseparable, body movement combined with proper cultivation of mind will yield the best results for the victim.  What works for each person maybe different  in each of these two components, but i believe that one of the problems with modern theraputic  systems is that many of them ignore the body component.   Across the world, all tribes had some form of  body movement or dance  as part of their routine rituals,  which  is lost  in the modern society  that lives in stress to meet the basic  human needs.

Currently I am in the process of helping someone who has gone through severe trauma.  Due to the extent of the trauma, the person is in denial  mode,  though he is willing to tacitly acknowledge that  some sort of treatment  would be good.   I  took it as a sign  that the person  is  reaching out for my help.   I performed an intense meditative retreat in order to seek the right way to help this person.   During this  meditation retreat  (which turned out to be one of the best in my life), it has been shown to me that  the best  way  to help this person,  is  by showing  this person that  the PATH of dhamma  provides  the best protection  against   various  sufferings  this person  has faced/will face/  in life.    This person has  some exposure to buddhism and meditation,  but  at a very basic level  and  is not  practicing any  spirituality   in life  right now.  

So, when i stumbled on this thread and read it,  I saw that the book suggested in topic of thread is available in amazon and is popular.  But there seems to be a more recent book, that has more excellent reviews.  My question is three fold:

1. Has  anyone  read this popular book titled  The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma  ?  
2. Though  I have read  extensively Buddha's  discourses (to monks as well as householders),  I am not sure  how  I can  impart this knowledge to the trauma victim  in a  stepwise/progressive/faith-creating   fashion.   The victim is a young mind, and I do not want to  overload  such a mind  with  all the depth of  knowledge at one  single  week of discussions.  I welcome  suggestions  from  those  who are experienced in  similar   situation.
3. Any  other  approches  other than gifting the book  &  dhamma  teaching to this victim ?  Gifting  a book of Buddha's discourses  is  unlikely  to be read  by this person  (because  the canons  are  lengthy  and deep books that need patience to read).

The   "listenonrepeat"   works nicely for youtube videos  that we want to play repeatedly.   But, my original question is  more focused  on  finding  other  soothing  songs  like  Om mani padme hum.   The video posted in a reply with Deva Premal is soothing too, but  I find that  Om-mani  is much more powerful in a way that i can not describe.  I do not want to get side tracked  on this thread;  but  Elsewhere in this forum, you can find  people  discussing the reason for the power of this chanting.

I often listen to the youtube chanting of Om mani padme hum(x9 version)  which i find soothing. I have also tried many hindu chantings on youtube, but none comes close to the above mantra version.  I stick to youtube for listening, even though it does not have a "repeat" feature.  Do you know of another chanting/song  that  is as powerful and soothing to listen to ?

Thanks to all of you for the responses.   I understand the importance of practice over theory, but it has been my experience that they both complement each other nicely.  I am not actively searching  to join another forum now,  but can not deny that every now and then  the thought  has crossed my mind - it would be yet another time commitment,  which makes me pause.  

I have come across many  knowledgeable people in this forum,  who have contributed to my growth.  So, i can not deny that  there are gems to be found among  the trash  that permeates the internet.   Not only  i seek to find these gems of inspiration, but also  I seek to give.   Because there are many here, who give their time, knowledge and guidance to others - as I have gained from them, i seek to pay forward.  This is all for the welfare of our children, for generations to come.

I searched the net for a forum meant purely  for  buddhist scholars and meditators hang out.  Google produces many different sites.   Any  comments on which forum is the best quality ? Following is a short list that i am interested in considering....

1. dhammawheel.com
2. freesangha.com
3. dharmanet.org
4. dharmawheel.net
5. www.theravadabuddhistcommunity.org

I prefer to hang out with the 40+ crowd of people, and want to avoid pointless and ego driven discussions.   That is the primary criteria in picking one out of these five that came up in search on Thereveda buddhism.  

Well, Thanissaro says:

 

 

In other words, asking 'what gets reborn?' is a mistaken question because it's based on an assumption that a thing is what gets reborn. The Buddha saw rebirth instead in terms of a process - mental and physical components causally linked. Imagine fire burning along a rope - the flames are new flames at each point as the fire burns along. Asking 'what part of the flame moves along the rope?' just doesn't make sense.

 

So in the Buddha's terms, this process is expressed as the nidanas of dependent origination. These are repeated often in the suttas, here's one example from the maha-nidana sutta:

 

Seeker,

     I  have  good  understanding of dependent  origination.  But, the answer is unsatisfactory to me, for 2 reasons:

1. if you use the flame/fire along the rope as metaphor, I would say that  there is a ever-changing  fire/flame,  which is what moves along the rope.
2. Often, Buddha  has  spoken of  a person  getting reborn as an animal or in hell or heaven.  Which means that Buddha  not only spoke of rebirth in the context of dependent origination,  but also in the context of simple/straight-forward  rebirth of a person  during a discourse.  Here, the context and meaning of rebirth is the simplistic views that we hold for rebirth.

So,  the question  still remains open.  I have my own hypothesis as answer to this question, but want to see alternate views from the wise or from a sutta  that I have not yet read.  In addition,  I think this would be an interesting topic to discuss, for the benefit of many here.  If you have a liberated-mind as your teacher,  you can pose the question to your teacher and share your wisdom here...

I am just waiting to get off parole so I can start my spiritual journey in earnest. I have an 8pm - 8am curfew until the end of the year.....I really want to join a monastery badly. I a just soul weary.

That's perfectly ok.  Buddha has said that when  someone endures lot of suffering, it results in one of 2 things.....either the mind is baffled (i don't remember the exact words, but  I interpret this to mean that the person goes mad)  OR  the mind starts searching for an end to the suffering.   The second choice automatically  leads you into the prescribed path of renunciation and dhamma.  But, as i mentioned before,  I think  that  renunciation has to be approached cautiously, with reverence, with the right frame of mind (Right View).  Do  not think that it is an easy way out (of the world and its problems).   

Havent read all the replies...I was just alerting y'all to a state of mind I had today....it will not last - they never do....

Songstan,

     Don't  be  disheartened. There is truth in what you said originally.  But those words you spoke need to approached cautiously, with reverance, with the right frame of mind (Right View).  This Right View is to be combined with Right effort (practice), which is what all the indian yogis do in the forests/mountains.  But i suspect you are not ready to give it all up and go into a forest.  If you do, then you will know when you have reached Liberation to the extent your mind seeks. At that point, your heart will overflow with the wisdom of kindness, joy, equanimity and compassion.  You will reach out to all beings with this liberated mind, which is not easy to attain.  

Since this is not easy to attain for ordinary humans like us, the only thing we can do is to take one day at a time - a single step, a simple practice in the right direction  that has been given to us by the wisest of the wise to ever walk on this earth.....our great spiritual teachers, who have spoken of how to live an ordinary good life.  They taught us that despair and worry are unwholesome  states of mind that need to be abandoned.

What have we got to lose by practicing their teachings, a little at a time ? You have already understood that the rat race ends sooner or later. Assuming that we know how to live our lives, living contrary to the teaching of the wisest, only shows ego/stupidity/ignorance/self-importance.  The  right-living  will not only have good influence on yourself, but also will affect those around you (family, friends, children, etc).   Of  course, you understand much of these things,  which is one reason why you hang out here with Sat-sung.

Young man, you are killing yourself with over-thinking.   Trust my words, as I have lived with many different room mates in my young years. All you need  is a  easy-going,  understanding/empathetic, clean (both inside and outside),  same-sex  person(s)   to share the rent.   Anything  more  or different would be unnecessary complication added to your spiritual path and development. At the same time, i should also mention that it is important to surround yourself with positive energy and avoid  negative energy.

This is false. These things are not magical. Rebirth as an animal only happens if you pissed off the wrong people. Since 5,000 years ago these resources for gene therapy of that kind have not been available. The incident with Moses stopped all of these issues.

Lino,

        Do you care to elaborate on your theory  and  quote appropriate  spiritual  texts as support ?  Milarepa  lived  about 900 years ago.   So,  if you are calling the words  of  such an enlightened being as "false",  do  it  with very cautiously  and with  reverence and respect............for  words  carry  a power  that  are beyond  the understanding of  current/modern/average   humans.

Buddhism explicitly disagrees with holding the view of a cosmic Self, just as much as an individual self.

 

Maha-nidana sutta:

 

 

But what about Buddha-nature? Well, this is also not a self. It is merely the principle that the mind has the capacity to become fully awakened.

 

Maha-parinirvana sutra:

 

 

Lankavatara sutra:

 

Seeker,

     Thanks for these quotes.  I understand from these quotes that Buddha is making it crystal clear that  since there is nothing that can be called a SELF (with which we identify with),  there is no point in any attempt (using words/language) to define SELF  in any way (either cosmic/universal/transcending/all-encompasing SELF or  an individualized/centered/micro/human/animal   SELF).  Thus,  all concepts  that define SELF  would be considered  wrong according to Buddha.

(The following is addressed to all):

The statements above are my current understanding, and you are welcome to correct it if it is wrong view.   This brings  up another interesting question.  This is a deep question, and hence attempt  an answer  only  if you can quote  appropriate words from Buddha himself or one of his disciples.....

If  there is  nothing  that  can be  considered as a SELF,   what is  "it"   that  shows up  in the  next  rebirth ? What part of  a human  gets  reborn  as an animal (or as a heavenly being) ?

Are we here for a purpose, or are we the result of evolution?

 

Like a lucky dog that died and became a human?

 

Are we just passing through?

It  seems like  there is a state-of-mind,  where  all  of your 4 questions can  be answered  with  a  YES or NO  or MAYBE.   The purpose of  spirituality is to show  us how to live,  while  we are here on earth.  

Say, we take  one step at a time on the path that has been shown to us by the wisest of the wise to ever live on earth.   Then, there will come a step, where  these kinds of  questions and answers  will cease to be important.  For  now,  taking  the one small step (however small)  needed for TODAY,  is  what  is  important  and relevant.   Troubles (sufferings) arise  because  we do not realize  the  importance  of  this  one small  single step  that needs to be taken TODAY (ie..  in present moment).

Many  wise words have been spoken in this thread, as counterbalance reality check.  Notice that many yogis live a long and healthy life, on bare minimum food,  leave alone supplements.  Meanwhile, the digestive system is getting overloaded, if these are consumed when not needed.  The failure in GI shows up only in advanced decades of life because the life-force of youth is strong enough to withstand the onslaught from modern society.

There is going to be  ton  of  teenagers now interested in this thread,  because  the  idea of  35 minutes of  sustained  orgasm  will bring tears to any  teen.   They usually  have orgasms  lasting  in the order of  seconds.  This  can be practiced now as a better alternative, instead of wasting  energy  on new girlfriends.  Would you care to write an article  explaining your  "Path to Enlightenment" or  "Path to Ecstasy"  or something like that ?  This will save the ton of emails that you will soon get from  pleasure seeking teens on the Net.

Here  is some  thought  that came, regarding this topic......
 

Sometimes  crying  comes about,  when  a piece of ignorance  departs.

Sometimes  laughter comes about,  when a piece of wisdom  arises.

Then  times change, and equanimity  trumps  them all.

I am new to Qigong.  Naturally,  i don't  know  much other than the 8-movement that i do sometimes.  But  sometimes i  feel  like  i am  performing  Qigong without  even  consciously  thinking of it as  Qigong.  Isn't  Qigong  simply  the practice  of  facilitating   proper  energy flow within the body ?  If  my assumption is correct,  this  can  be practiced  in  any  position (walking, sitting, lying etc), anywhere, anytime -  just like  meditation.  I am too lazy now to read up all the basics  on the net.

Never  mind  my  question.  Waking  up this morning, my laziness disappeared.  I  was able to learn much from a simple google search  and reading  qigonginstitute  website.   It  is more useful  than the  youtube  videos, which got me started on Qigong.  I get reminded of  Milarepa's  words......"knowledge is vast".   

I am new to Qigong.  Naturally,  i don't  know  much other than the 8-movement that i do sometimes.  But  sometimes i  feel  like  i am  performing  Qigong without  even  consciously  thinking of it as  Qigong.  Isn't  Qigong  simply  the practice  of  facilitating   proper  energy flow within the body ?  If  my assumption is correct,  this  can  be practiced  in  any  position (walking, sitting, lying etc), anywhere, anytime -  just like  meditation.  I am too lazy now to read up all the basics  on the net.

      When  i read  what  Spotless  has  mentioned as  "matters of the right sided heart in the higher realms of universal being / resonance",  I  remember  that  Pamela Reynolds'  husband  talked about her crying out of empathy (see video i mentioned in previous post).  The lower mind crying (as mentioned by Spotless)  is the typical  crying  of  a child or teen (suffering based crying).

Anyways.... an uninteresting topic to many, but i wanted a  thread  to mention  the recent video i saw. In my search, i could not find any previous threads talking about that video.  I  felt the empathy that is mentioned by  Pamela's  husband  and wanted to share that in this forum.  Also wanted to share the thought that  higher minds create "crying",  but  from a different  base.

Hmmm..... this is a surprise  to me.  Never  saw a  wild life  video  where  cubs are being  eaten by the mother.  Which  species does this ? 

I  suddenly  wonder  if  anyone  evolves  spiritually  into  higher mind  states,   without  ever  going through  crying.  I am sure,   this is not  something  our  spiritual   gurus  would like to  talk  about,   given  the  negativity  that gets  associated  with a  crying  person.   Come  to think of  it,  I have never seen  a video  of  any  spiritual   guru,  where  he/she   talks  only  about  the  bad things  he/she   did  in his/her  past.   (I  am talking  graphic  descriptions  of  how  low  they  stooped  in their  life,  before  gaining  fame/glory  as  a guru).

I  agree with both of you.   I realize  that  the feeling  of  empathy / compassion / love  that arises from deep within (like in the case of  a  heart chakra getting touched by mind)   can  invoke  crying as a physical  response.   It is also possible to cry  without  having  any  associated  sadness  that  typically  accompanies normal  crying.    I got reminded of  the  crying  that arises from  love & compassion,   towards  the end of  the  youtube  video  on  Pam  Renolds'   near death experience.  I think  the BBC documentary  on  NDE  (available on youtube)  called   The day i died,  is  something  that is worth watching.

Recently I  came upon the topic of  "crying",  during some contemplation.   I thought  i should  write  down  some of my  thoughts  in this forum.   Crying  is common phenomenon among those who are on a spiritual path. Why do  these people, who are more spiritual than an average person,  cry ?  I  think one reason could be the fact that spiritually inclined minds tend to be more sensitive than others;  they feel their feelings  more  deeply  than an average person.  Gender does not matter  - crying arises from the depth of the mind. It  is to be treated as yet another phenomenon of mind and should be treated just like any other feeling that arises - with equanimity, overcome those emotional waves, and stabilize the mind, without  rolling/dwelling  in that emotion for long time.

It is also possible that crying occurs as a reaction of  empathy / loving-kindness, either directed towards oneself  or directed towards some other person.   Upon  feeling the pain of  one's own mind, or the pain of  someone else's  mind,  crying could arise.  This only means that your practice of spirituality is  diving deeper.   There is nothing to be ashamed about.   Haven't  you seen  animals cry ?  If not,  check out some internet videos on this topic.  This  is an expression of nature.

Topic  is  interesting  one.   Some of  you maybe  interested  in  these TV shows  where  they show people who are doing it.   

1.  Life  Below  Zero,   2.  Live free or Die,   3. Legend of Mick Dodge

Thanks  Steve and Seeker-of-wisdom.  I understand completely, and have experienced  in myself these words of Milarepa.  The mistake i made was to read it in a hurry, without  double checking  and  in  reading fast, i made the mistake of  understanding his words....

 "They think that it's vipashyana and rest their mind at ease"

into  my perception  of  .......

"They think that it's vipashyana   to   rest their mind at ease"

Because i contemplate and focus on  "tranquility/stillness/resting  of  mind"   (as part of day-to-day life practice),   my  mind played a  number on me; and my wrong perception of that  single  word changed that whole line and initiated  a question mark in my mind.   Add to this wrong perception, the other surprise (just like  seeker-of-wisdom)  when i saw that  last few lines saying  shamatha leads to  animal  rebirth.......

Now, it has all  become clear, thanks to your comments.   Simple  shamatha can be intense, and creates intense experiences of  spiritual nature.......we can imagine  a similar  state of mind  (single-pointedness) in a cat watching its prey.  Thus, when we are in such a jhana, we are simply living  an  animal's  state of mind.  (I will leave the rebirth issue to  various  mental inclinations, since it is of no  importance to my mind).  Until  I  gained penetrations into  insight/wisdom  of  dhamma,  this  kind of  shamatha  took me nowhere.

Steve,  I think Milarepa was not harsh regarding the animal rebirth.  He is spot on, in describing that state of mind  (if we only consider a mind that has deep jhana, but without  any trace of  insight/wisdom/self-awareness  aspect to it).  Which  world will carry/host  such a mind ?   Having directly realized  this, i find  more growth and fruits in  "balancing my mind & practicing",  with consideration to different aspects of the dhamma - ie.  equal importance ascribed to sila, samadhi (increasing jhanas) and panna (insight/wisdom/direct-experience).  A tripod  can not stand on one leg or two.