seekingbuddha

I've lived with several feline meditation masters.

Learned much from them.

 

Thanks, this made my day   I love all kinds of cats too, and  their  tranquility is incredible to  watch, once they sit cross legged, and  stay there without  a single movement, for hours together.

I do not contemplate / fear / meditate / hold strong views about  rebirth.  I just keep an open mind towards  it,  (and have my own theories about it).  I stumbled on  Milerapa's  songs,  and it resonated and penetrated my heart in its wisdom.  As i was reading, i  came upon the following words from a song.   Elsewhere, Milerapa has clearly defined what he calls as Shamatha - so i have no doubts about what level of meditation  he is referring to.  

 

But, I can not fully  understand why he says that the great meditators will be reborn as animals.
Maybe someone here has studied the life and songs of Milerapa in detail, and could shed some light on the final two lines ?  This is more of a curiosity question because I am drawn by his songs;  this does not affect my practice in any way.

 

"..............

The great meditators who meditate in shamatha
Have powerful experiences, so brilliant and clear
They think that it's vipashyana and rest their mind at ease
But when vipashyana is needed at the point of death,
Luminosity's mother and child they cannot bring together
And so the shamatha they've practiced does not help at all.
In fact, has it not made them take birth as an animal?............

"

Few comments,  in order to clarify  my earlier comments....

• "Orgasm" is not a good simile  - indeed, jhanas are better than sex  and different from sexual joy/bliss.
• Jhanas  are simply  "milestones"  on the path,  and are not the path or destination.  Definitely, for me, jhanas are not the motivating  factors  or targets.  There are fruits that I can enjoy, as i walk along the path, without craving for anything that happens (or what i see) along the path.
• I  did not mean to say  that 1st jhana is unattainable. I just mentioned that we should be careful about our conclusions, because ego does play subtly into everything.  In my mind and understanding,  "attainment"  means  that  one can "produce it and sustain it",  to however long needed,  at  his/her  will.   This is a tougher task.  I also think higher jhanas become exponentially harder (to gain and sustain at will), after the 1st one.  But, As i mentioned before, we can certainly see glimpses of all states of mind,  if proper  preparation is done.  Getting a glimpse, for some duration,  is not  "attainment",  IMHO.
• Knowing,  is different (in my terminology/definition) from "experiences of concentration".  Knowing is the result of "direct experience/insight".  Those who know, will know what I imply here.
• Part of my practice is to be careful about when and how I speak. I may have spoken too much here, so pardon my ignorance, if it is present. Liberated minds are  welcome to correct and set me on the right view,  if  I am indeed wrong in these perceptions.

Metta  to you all.  May you experience the tranquility.

Beware  of  the traps  created by  perceptions,  thoughts  and feelings.  For they are forever changing - which means that you won't   have the same thoughts, perceptions  or feelings  after 10 years down the road.   This also means that the  "person who is right for you  now, at present moment",   will  not be the right person for your 10 years down the road  because  she would have changed  (alongside you).  

 

Forgetting all the word plays,  and focusing  on the development of mind,  thus  attaining  tranquility/stability/equanimity  leads to more happier  life than depending on external  source like  "a partner".   This  is what is inferred  by  others  when they say  "Love  who you are".  It  is  my  experience  that  excessive  craving  (even if  it is for  getting a compatible  partner)  leads to delusion  and  unhappiness (eventually).  This  is what we are all learning,  by  hanging out in forums  like this  and understanding the words  of  the Fully  Enlightened.   Having  realized  some insights,  you will automatically  attract the attention of  females soon (if you continue and progress in mind).   You can have your  pick,  but use your  wisdom, for long term  benefit.

Pardon me, i did not make my statement clearer......When i said  "In conclusion - we should not delude ourselves into thinking that we can jump into any jhanas at will....."

 

I was referring  (using the word "we"),  to mean  "most of us, ordinary people".   But, of course, for those yogis  and monks who are dedicated, working hard at this all their life (using specific steps Buddha prescribed),  it is possible to go  into any jhana.  When  your  statement  was  "You can jump into any of the jhanas at will",    i thought  you were referring  to  "me & most others in this forum".  That is what i found  disturbing because that could be misconstrued by other readers......  I should have probably kept my mouth shut because i knew this was a touchy subject.  Besides, our ego works in subtle ways, and it is not easy to subdue it  and accept the truth sometimes. Lot of times,  Our perceptions are led by our ego (and attachment to the "I").  And these perceptions (subtly arising from ego base)  lead  us to delusions.

 

Don't  take my post personally - it was merely my thoughts (for the wise readers to consider).  As usual,  perceptions differ and my perceptions  were clearly tagged as such (in my last statement). 

Usually my tendency is to resist reply to posts like these,  as part of my practice to subdue my ego.  But, i reply here out of compassion for all who may wind up reading this thread. So, i want to  clarify my prior post here.....

 

First of all, i want to establish that my questions were not posed out of ignorance on this topic, but were posed to dispel differences  in our terminology and understanding of words of Buddha, the Supremely Enlightened One.

1) Orgasms are too disruptive and there is no control. The sensations of rapture, or ecstasy are a slow even flow that go on and on. The last time this occured, it lasted for about 45 minutes.

As you have said here,  orgasms  are too disruptive  and  do not have the base of  tranquility/stillness/mindfulness.  My first question was merely to point out this  fact and is related to my 3rd question,  which was posed only to establish that Orgasm is not a good simile to describe jhanas.

 

2) Yes. Within the field of awareness, you can move your attention around and pick out objects, or points to put your attention on. However, you are still 'knowing' the entire field through your senses, your eye consciousness, ear consciousness etc. Gradually, I learned how to focus the big 'knowing' into a point. You can actually control it. It takes allot of effort at first, and then something clicks in and there is just the 'knowing' of that spot.. In my case, it is the anapana spot, between the upper lip and the nostrils. And, you just 'feel' the sensations of cool and warm as the breath passes.. You don't follow the breath.

3) The main distinction is between attention/awareness and 'knowing'. When you know something, you are only focused on that and you know that you are only knowing that. But it is a field, and you can shrink it down through 'interest', effort and willpower.

4) Knowing is connected to willpower and the heart.  It is not the focusing of attention on a point while you are still aware (to a lesser degree) of extraneous sounds, movements, stimuli, etc.  It is the whole-hearted devotion, something comes up from below and focuses.

Only  my second question was about "knowing".   In my terminology,  knowing  is  NOT a verb/action.  In my terminology, "to know"  something  means  "to gain insight/wisdom which arises only from direct experience".   In my terminology, what you are describing  as "....focus the big knowing into a point...."  is the experience that arises when concentration/focus  is narrowed and  increased in depth.   What you are describing as "knowing" is the  arising  of higher concentration levels and clarity/penetration  into  the object of meditation,  that  is a result of higher concentration.  Mind presents clear light, as by product of the high concentration.  But we should be careful still because  Buddha has described other per-requisites needed to  classify  something  as a jhana.  If our mind finds that all needed characteristics  are present, then there is good probability to come to our conclusions.

5) I don't see why not.  You can jump into any of the jhanas at will, and these states even happen if you know nothing about the jhanas.

This is the most common misconception i find on the internet,  especially among westerners.  The people who grow up in many eastern countries know and hold higher jhanas in reverence.  This is simply because they have directly seen (or heard)  of many monks / yogis  struggling all their life to attain to higher jhanas.   Eastern civilizations know that this is no easy task, whereas  many in the west are misdirected by teachers - who are accepted as teachers simply because they have  spent/studied  in the East, a decade or two - if we go by this standard, literally there are millions of teachers living in the East., who have put in the time and study. 

 

In conclusion - we should not delude ourselves into thinking that we can jump into any jhanas at will.  Look at the conditions posited by Buddha for arisal of  higher jhanas. Yes, it is true that some mental states can happen, even if you know nothing about jhanas - but they are transitory in nature, and they are only glimpses into what is possible - such transitory mental states are NOT sustained at will, because they arose without the "will / effort"  of the mind.

 

......Such is the current understanding and insight of this mind - it is open to corrections & teachings from liberated minds.

Thats interesting, I contracted a Golden Staph infection after having a skin cancer removed. I tried everything, the anti bacterial creams and even raw garlic, none of it worked. Then one night in sheer desperation I meditated on what I could do for it. It was real nasty too, and spreading, making a big hole. I relaxed and started my breathing to begin to slide deeper into trance when in my head was spoken 'Tea Tree Oil'.

 

Thanks for sharing.  This is a bit off-topic, but..... I have wondered if  these "words  in head"  were a creation of  our own subconscious mind, which somehow figures out the answer through  means that are yet undiscovered by science (but of course,  spiritual texts have answers/opinions/words  regarding these  "words in the head").  This kind of  revelations happen to many  meditators.

1. I am  suddenly  wondering  if   mind  is  "stabilized / tranquil / still"    during  an  orgasm. 

Is  it  possible  to  "concentrate knowing"  (into a focused beam, fixed on one spot) ??

Is  this a good  simile ?

How  else  could it be  characterized,  in more detail and words ? 

Of  relevance is also the question of  "Can it be characterized by someone who has not seen / experienced  beyond it (for example, 2nd jhana)."

Couple  of  observations  came  in my mind, which i wanted to add to this thread:

1. Your  first 3 paragraphs are the most important, i felt.  They  seem to be the most useful, when reflected from my own experience.
2. I have noticed that many meditators have some kind of insight into "time".  The  content / words / perspective varies from person to person,  but i do see the pattern of  discussion abut time arising to many.  I suspect this could be a hallmark /milestone,  in terms of progress in the path.  This  "time insight"  happens  spontaneously, without reading about it or thinking about  time (sometimes ?).

You  have  had some insights  into  partnership.   First of all,  i want to say "rejoice in your realizations".  I get a feeling that you  miss having a loved one.  So, i want to give you a simple exercise.  Please take a survey,  using the people who are close to you (friends, family,  office-mates you can trust etc). Each of these survey takers must have been previously (or currently) in a long-term relationship  (like more than 5 years).    Ask  each one,  "Are  you more happy  in your  relationship when compared to the time  you were alone  as a child" ?   Let them laugh and talk, and listen to their comments  about  relationships. 

 

True  happiness/joy/peace  stems  from  our own mind.   After much struggle,  I realized  that one causative condition for such inner-tranquility  to  arise  is  seclusion.   You are viewing  seclusion  as  loneliness,  because  your mind  is craving  for  a partner,  rather  than  rejoicing  in the  loneliness.   I completely  understand you,  because  I have felt what you feel,  when i was younger in age  and  experiences.   It  is better to be alone,  rather than being with a wrong  partner in life.   Contemplate on  Steve's  words  - they  carry wisdom.

 

May you find the happiness that you seek, and grow from it.

why you think he is a master?

Consider  why  we  trust/like/value  anyone's  words  in  this forum,  in any thread ? 

It   is a loss for us,  since we seem to have lost  Master Dawg  in this thread,  due to some bad elements posting  useless replies to him.  We all have much to learn  from  accomplished people like Master Dawg - that is the whole purpose of this forum, isn't it ? 

 

As far as the kundalini question goes,  i think  you will get the answer  if you read  his  original  posts  carefully.

It's worth noting that for thousands of years, up until the end of World War 2, spirituality was only practiced by full-time monks, or sometimes by independently wealthy people who had plenty of time (e.g. upper class).

 

Upper class leisure activities then were trickled down to the masses, largely for the reason of providing income to entrepreneurs.

 

Spiritual practice got swept along by that phenomenon.

 

A lot of them are not really suited to part-time practice.  For example, I spent 10 years doing Tibetan Buddhism, and eventually came to the conclusion that it was entirely constructed for monks, and was unsuited for householders (YMMV).

 

+++

This  is wrong  view.  What we need to understand is that there are  "levels  of  spirituality"  and  "levels of  liberation from suffering".   So,  what is applicable to  monks  is geared and taught  towards  attainment of  "higher levels"  of liberation and state of mind.  But  that does not mean that we, as ordinary laymen,  can  NOT take part of the teachings of Buddha  and practice it.  In fact,  simple  things that are the basic foundation of monk's  life  (eg.  Sila)  bring  profound  happiness and fruits to a ordinary  human life.

 

Spirituality  was part of indian society for thousands of years - they understood that not everyone can become a monk, which is the basic pre-requisite  to reach  high levels of liberated state-of-mind.   But, there are numerous examples, where ordinary laymen accepted Buddha  as their teacher/guide/spiritual teacher  for the rest of their life, and they led an ordinary household life, with great peace and happiness as a fruit of taking up the teachings.   The teaching of Buddha has "suffering and way to end suffering"  as the core - not only monks, but every being can practice this to varying degrees, and attain  "varying  levels of  happiness / peace / fruits / state-of-mind".  Take what you can practice, and leave the rest for monks or others who wish to reach higher state-of-mind.

how long they are "going forth"? 

 

you don't become arhant or streamentry, these are fruits to what you certificate after you die here. 

And many i believe take from religions what they need, not following it as a rule.

Hi  allinone,

    I view buddism NOT as a religion, but as a path for me to walk in.  The fruits found in this path are the knowledge and ever deepening understanding of how to reduce suffering in my life and thereby live more closer to reality, peace and a form of happiness that transcends the type of happiness that i experienced using sensual pleasures. When i was a child/teen, i practiced a (different) religion that was my family root.

 

   As part of my practice, i read Buddha's discourses, and i have enough reading behind me to be clear about what he taught. Practicing what he taught is the tough part.  But, those who practice his teachings  (to the letter), attained  different levels of liberation under him. (I don't want to get into description of all those). Stream-entry and Arhantship and such liberations/fruits/results attained  by  his students,  during the lifetime of The Supremely Enlightened One.  They were fortunate to train under the teacher himself.  Now, it is rarer to find such Arhants because teachers like Buddha are also rare.  But,  for us, simple ordinary laymen (or even for many monks),  just practicing  the basic steps that buddha taught  are a challenge - leave alone his  higher teachings and attainments.  What is great is that even those simple basic steps give many many good fruits for us, once we start practicing them - a much better and happier life.

 

top notch is, we have merit enough to read whats on the table and practice any type of thought there is.

if not you wouldn't have access to the highest truth books in so many languages.

What i found over the decades is that the very same words that i read and understood long ago, carry a even deeper and more wise meaning,  later in my life,  because my practice strengthened over years - and this gives new perspectives and new experiences, from the very same words of buddha.   So,  i read plenty when i was younger and did understand them and practice them.  But looking back, i realize that the very same words carry layers  of  experience, insight and meaning, which are  uncovered  with stronger  meditation practice.

 

rennunciation is you renounce the self. You may go to monastery and find your way. 

But what you need to do is let go, perhaps you need to follow someone for years to be able to know what it feels to be set someone elses idea before your own even if your idea feels more right.

I am not understanding how this relates to my original post.  But,  i understand what you are trying to say.  There was a recent discussion aboun  renunciation in another thread that comes to my mind.  Metta......

Some people have long sentences, difficult to comprehend;  others have short sentences packed with depth.  I agree with Spotless.   In my life, it has been slow and steady detachment.   Detachment has several layers/levels/degrees.    To the degree one  gets detached,  to that degree reality is revealed.   You do not  get immersed fully  into  reality,  but rather  you  get  full appreciation   of reality as it is, when detachment is performed.   As i detached to varying degrees,  various  taints disappeared in me,  without  me having to strive  for it.   Much happier life can be attained through simple detachments.  For example,  detachment  from  thought process,  leads to higher insights during meditation.  This is contrary to usual belief  that  more thinking will yield more insight/knowledge/sharpness.  Irony.

My diet now is mostly veggies, fruit, beans etc. nuts, oats, speltbread, brown rice, cheese and eggs. No milk. sugar or alcohol. I use tapwater which is neither fluoridated nor chlorinated. Can't do better on that. i supplement with some vitamins and minerals. Sometimes I have craving for protein, then I take pills consisting of essential aminoacids, my body is not able to digest meat or soy so familydoctor described them for me.

Excellent diet, pretty much what i have boiled down to after going through some GI problems of my own. Having done a ton of research into diet/nutrition, i want to share with you what i know (since you are a kindred spirit).

 

If you crave protein, fish is a better source; but buy wild caught salmon. There are some vendors on the internet who supply high quality fish from ocean, but they are top dollars. Its best to buy in right season. Seafood from high end grocery stores is ok, if you make sure they are "wild caught" not farm raised.  Farm raised fish go through inhuman conditions.  I supplement with high end multivitamins, but only at a quarter of their recommended dosage.  Whole food sources are the way to go for optimal health. Having started spending time in sun, i can attest to the effects of sun that VonKrankenhaus is talking about.  Spend some time walking in early morning sun in a peaceful place like a park; if possible repeat at sunset too - i have found these two produce complementary effects on body.  Doing a detox of  GI and body for a week, combined with intense meditation reboots the body.  Meditation is integral part of health, because body and mind are interconnected more than modern medical science understands.  Cut down eating slowly, to only once or twice a day.  Track your calories using mobile software or online, to get an idea of what goes in.  After 6 months of daily tracking you will get an innate feeling for calories.  Calculate your BMR and keep your intake to it or lower everyday (even if you exercise). The more my mind progessed in spiritual path, i healed things by my own efforts that doctors could not heal.  Take any supplement (man-made product) cautiously and small quantities to find how your body reacts. If you are in tune with you body, you can feel it and trust it. If you need more info send me a PM and i will talk more.  Metta to you.

Re:

-----

"Maybe, I could sit under a tree and do this initial practice you suggest ?  Sounds like meditation outdoors (day and night)."

-----

 

Under a tree is okay as long as it isn't such a big tree that one ends up in the dark.

This is an ambitious project if i want to sit in meditation from sunrise to sunset, but i will attempt in stages.  Just meditating outdoors is a great start and beneficial, for a layman like me.

 

.......

In terms of spiritual practice we are starting with the big light that is close, and after establishing this very well we start towards the farther and farther away light. Then we start looking for vibration that is faster than light. Then we go even further than that.

 

-VonKrankenhaus

Though i have been inclined to contemplate space & energy flow in some of my meditations, it is too advanced for me to be the main focus.  Indeed my insight expanded during such meditations.  But, Usually my meditations are centered around the steps laid out by the Supremely Enlightened One.  I beleive that if i jump ahead and continually try the practices done by yogis living in forests,  i will stumble and fall face first, back into square one.  Just being "constantly aware" of vibrations/sensations/feelings/khandas  within me is extremely challenging task for me, leave alone looking for vibrations from deep space.  My goal is simple - minimize suffering for myself and help other beings, if i can.  Towards this end, i am willing to take any necessary actions.

Proof is in the pudding.  Only 2 replies (though unrelated), and very few even interested in viewing the topic.  Enlightenment is possible, but it is not as easy a process as the western world thinks it is. "Going forth"  is the first step  practiced by millions in the eastern world, even before they think about becoming enlightened/liberated/arhanted.  This  step is out of the realm of thoughts, even among the spiritually inclined  in the western world. So, what we can strive for is the peaceful middle path of a lay man/woman,  and pursue spirituality-hobby because this makes us happy/content/peaceful  in day to day mundane life.

Please do not anyone just stare at the Sun.

 

The way to work with Sun Training and Darkness Training isn't about that, and is more complex than that.

.........

One very introductory Sun training I can suggest is to sit in Sun from sunrise to sunset in one spot. Primarily focus on one area direct in front of you. Try for one whole summer to start. The thing is to be in the total Sun movement from appear to disappear. This happens normally to young children always playing outside in Sun every day - we become entrained and gain organ function memory of the entire shape and rotation of Earth, orienting our thinking and actions.

Thanks Van.  Sitting in sun all day, on hot summer day could be very painful in the area i live in. Is the idea to be aware of the transition of  day/sun ? Maybe, I could sit under a tree and do this initial practice you suggest ?  Sounds like meditation outdoors (day and night).  If  there is another thread that you start on this topic, please post a link here, and i can follow you there.  So far, this thread seems to be on topic.

http://www.eatthesunmovie.com/director_s_statement.html

 

Watch "Eat the SuN" if you can on sungazing doc - HRM was exposed as binging at fast food and on buffets - another lying breatharian. haha.

 

Also the dude who tried it damaged his eyes - as the doc documents.

This is a shock to me - did u see the movies,  and him binging  on fast food ?  Was it mastered to look like that ? If this is true, i can write to him and find out his side of the story.  Watching him, i felt he was genuine, because he is about 90 years old and looks extremely healthy for his age.  But then, there are million fakes in india, for each real yogi.  There is high potential for damage, as has been warned by him.

And I'm sorry, but sungazing is koolaid. I've known several people who did it, and at least a few of them now have sclotomas in their retinas. They have semipermanent dark disks in their direct field of vision, and their night vision is totally screwed. I believe it's possible to do that kind of enegy conversion for real, but only advanced practitioners can do it. Every lay person I've met who has been doing it has serious vision problems now.

 

If you want to use the power of the sun then just do qi gong or some kind of other energy work as the sun rises and energizes the earth grid. It'll help your yangqi a lot.

Thanks orion, for the warning. I agree with your views.  I don't know anything about  qi-gong, but common sense tells us that spending time in the sun is good for body.  In addition, all humans enjoy a sunrise and sunset  naturally. So, i have decided to restrict my practice atleast for a year (unlike what is suggested by HRM).  As long as my mind/body is in hormony with the energy generated through sun-gazing,  the energy will not harm my body.  That is what i feel and believe.  Some of the lay people (especially westerners),  do these kinds of practices  but  do not  walk in the path of purification/spirituality.  There, good potential for harm  arises, due to dishormony of  forces in body. If i get carried away, and/or  feel that my mind is getting agitated with excess energy, it is time to stop this practice.  My main focus is to practice what Buddha has taught directly and clearly, and i view other things as tools to help put together my body, to further my main focus. 

I found answers to some of my own questions. So, will write down what i found, before moving to discussions with others. I hope the OP does not feel that this thread is hijacked, since this relates to pineal gland/pitutary gland functions.

 

• Today, i started sun gazing in nearby park, which has wide open views. But the sun rise was from the hills that are on the east side - so there is no direct view of sun, unless the sun rises above these hills (which happened within about 10 mins). At the time designated on the weather sites, the sun was hidden behind the hills. But sky had already changed from the orange/deep red that marked end of dawn into a brighter yellow, at the designated sunrise time. My intention during the beginning of my practice is to only use the first 10 minutes of sunrise. My question is, "should i do my sun-gaze while the sun is still hidden behind the hill, but there is enough rays to see the daylight breaking ?" OR "should i wait until the sun is clearly above the hill (which takes about 10 or 15 minutes, beyond the time indicated in weather.com & dateandtime.com" ? I know HRM says you can do it anytime during 1st one hour, but i know that the beginning few minutes are the best, for someone who is starting the sun-gazing practice. There are also hills on the west side of this park, so sunset would have the same dilemma - if i wait until the designated sunset time, the sun would disappear behind the west side hills, but rays would still show good daylight.

Through my experience today, i have decided that the hills don't really make an issue for a beginner like me.  My plan is not to stare at the sun for extended periods (as suggested by HRM) because the common practice in india is not this. I plan to do only Surya-namaskar, which is the common practice and involves only looking at sun for short stretches (less than a minute) at a time.  Usually this is combined with hatha-yoga (stretches) and mantra prayers (meditation). One has to be spiritually advanced like yogis to get into these  "surviving on sun energy"  methods. 

 

 

• After the sun-gazing was done, i closed my eyes with both palms as suggested while standing bare foot on mother earth. I brought my concentration to the space in front of me/in front my eyes, and watched what was there. After a few seconds, i could see the bright sun (though it was not as bright as the real visual of sun with eyes open). When my focus shifted to see what was around the sun, i could even see the dark silhoutte of the eastern hills (again this was not as real as the physical visual of the hills). I kept my eyes closed for about 30 seconds, and for most of the time, my concentration remained good (as if i were meditating) and the light remained bright in front of the closed eyes. Comments on this experience ?

Further reading reveals that this is common experience. The suggestion i read says to keep eyes closed and imagine darkness until the visuals fade away (could take few minutes).

 

• I felt the concentration/focus/meditation/mindfulness when my eyes were closed for 30 seconds. This was stronger than my meditation sittings. Is anyone aware of post sun-gazing meditation traditions/practices ? It would be odd to sit in the park, so i need to figure out a secluded spot for this in the park and possibly take my cushion and a mat since sitting on mother earth is not easy for a beginner of outdoor meditation sits.

I also found out this is one of the best times for meditation.  The other best time for meditation is soon after waking up, which is my usual sitting-practice.

 

 

• HRM recommends incrementing by 10 seconds everyday, and reduction to stable levels after certain number of months. He also says to adjust this time based on color of the retina (5 seconds for blue/gray eye retina). Is there any further fine tuning that can be done, based on age/physical-fitness-level/meditation-practices/discomfort in eye felt during sun-gazing or afterwards, and such criteria ?

Here i have decided to let my body guide me. I will listen to my senses very carefully, and take it easy for many months.  The duration of sun-gazing has to be in hormony with development of the mind spiritually and the level of purification/equanimity/mindfulness/calmness  that is already established in the body.  In other words, the body has to be capable of dealing with the tremendous energy that will surge when this practice is continued for extended periods.  My theory is that the energy is similar to the energy surge that arises from deep meditations.  From a physiology point of view, we can speculate that we need to take it slowly so that body has time to adapt/adjust/detox/evolve (if possible).  In most cases, adaptation may not arise at all.

Thanks to this thread, i have started my Sun gazing practice today. I knew about this practice from my teens. But unfortunately, many wise words useful for life, got overrun by scientific education of modern world. I never practiced all the good things i came to know during my teens, which would have given me a much more happier and healthier life than what i had. Thank goodness, my eyes are open now to seek the path to purification and happiness; better late than never. I see many who die without even getting to know a higher way of living & dying. I thank my lucky stars, for bringing me to this forum, where like minded people hang out. There are hidden diamonds, sprinkled throughout this site.

 

Questions to those who have spent some years in sun-gazing (like vonkrankenhaus):

• Today, i started sun gazing in nearby park, which has wide open views. But the sun rise was from the hills that are on the east side - so there is no direct view of sun, unless the sun rises above these hills (which happened within about 10 mins). At the time designated on the weather sites, the sun was hidden behind the hills. But sky had already changed from the orange/deep red that marked end of dawn into a brighter yellow, at the designated sunrise time. My intention during the beginning of my practice is to only use the first 10 minutes of sunrise. My question is, "should i do my sun-gaze while the sun is still hidden behind the hill, but there is enough rays to see the daylight breaking ?" OR "should i wait until the sun is clearly above the hill (which takes about 10 or 15 minutes, beyond the time indicated in weather.com & dateandtime.com" ? I know HRM says you can do it anytime during 1st one hour, but i know that the beginning few minutes are the best, for someone who is starting the sun-gazing practice. There are also hills on the west side of this park, so sunset would have the same dilemma - if i wait until the designated sunset time, the sun would disappear behind the west side hills, but rays would still show good daylight.
• After the sun-gazing was done, i closed my eyes with both palms as suggested while standing bare foot on mother earth. I brought my concentration to the space in front of me/in front my eyes, and watched what was there. After a few seconds, i could see the bright sun (though it was not as bright as the real visual of sun with eyes open). When my focus shifted to see what was around the sun, i could even see the dark silhoutte of the eastern hills (again this was not as real as the physical visual of the hills). I kept my eyes closed for about 30 seconds, and for most of the time, my concentration remained good (as if i were meditating) and the light remained bright in front of the closed eyes. Comments on this experience ?
• I felt the concentration/focus/meditation/mindfulness when my eyes were closed for 30 seconds. This was stronger than my meditation sittings. Is anyone aware of post sun-gazing meditation traditions/practices ? It would be odd to sit in the park, so i need to figure out a secluded spot for this in the park and possibly take my cushion and a mat since sitting on mother earth is not easy for a beginner of outdoor meditation sits.
• HRM recommends incrementing by 10 seconds everyday, and reduction to stable levels after certain number of months. He also says to adjust this time based on color of the retina (5 seconds for blue/gray eye retina). Is there any further fine tuning that can be done, based on age/physical-fitness-level/meditation-practices/discomfort in eye felt during sun-gazing or afterwards, and such criteria ?

The following is what i refer to as humans of future, evolving science to such an extent, where spirituality gets consumed under  discovery of various genes/drugs/neurochemical-reactions:

 

From wikipedia......."One common feature of the halluginogenic experience caused by DMT are hallucinations of humanoid like beings, characterised as being otherworldly. The terms Machine Elf was coined by ethnobotanist Terence McKenna for the experience, who also used the terms fractal elves, or self-transforming machine elves.^[91][92]

 

Hallucinations of strange creatures had been reported by Szara in the Journal of Mental Science (now the British Journal of Psychiatry) (1958) “Dimethyltryptamine Experiments with Psychotics”, Stephen Szara described how one of his subjects under the influence of DMT had experienced “strange creatures, dwarves or something” at the beginning of a DMT trip.^[93]

 

Other researchers of the experience described 'entities' or 'beings' in humanoid as well as animal form, with descriptions of "little people" being common (non-human gnomes, elves, imps etc.). This form of hallucination has been speculated to be the cause of alien abduction experiences through endogenously occurring DMT.^[94][95]"

Has anyone ever tried any of the various methods mentioned on the internet and found it to be worthwhile? Also, has anyone researched this topic in depth? I have been reading about it for some time, but other than doing my best to drink non fluoridated water, haven't gone too deep.

Could you please share what you have learnt from your studies ? 

 

Cheshire Cat - thanks for posting that video on Hira Ratan.  Yet another testament to the power of human body, from wise indian yogis. I am glad they are coming out and teaching the world, using English.