noonespecial

There are triads everywhere, of course my current understanding is that the tripartite state is a condition that arises when a binary is in transition. I.e., the soul arises only betwixt the states of body and spirit or in your example (if I understand correctly), the visible world and the invisible world, this goes around the typical understanding of an emanational/vibrational view, but it is what practical work as presented to me. A cell divides by twos not threes, but while it is dividing a third state arises and dissipates. In this way what occurs during lab work proves which spiritual philosophies are true and which are false, so the work aids us in understanding lofty terms like soul and spirit. In this way Nature is the ultimate arbiter and guide of which philosophies are correct and which are incorrect, it can even aid us in understanding creation. So if we start with one natural subject, not adding rectified ethanol, yeast or any foreign elements, like an orange (naturally occurring sugars), and let the orange decompose in a sealed vessel, I am left with a liquid and a mush of matter. If I heat that up and distill of the liquid I now have the matter in the first vessel and the liquid in the receiving flask. Now I can break this initial duality into two additional dualities, leaving me with the four classical greek elements. I left out the Fifth Element here because that is a whole other discussion, and I dont understand it practically yet. There is a quote I like from an alchemist named Bonus, found in the New Pearl of a Great Price as follows, “It (Alchemy) truly instructs us how to know the one substance truly designed by Nature for a specific purpose, and it also acquaints with the natural method of treating and manipulating this substance...before we know how to do a thing, we must understand all conditions and circumstances under which it is produced.“ Here is an article on the relations between Kabbalah and Alchemy if anyone else is interested in the earlier discussion. They don't seem to have a very savory view of alchemy, lol. Alchemy and the *Kabbalah were closely linked in the Middle Ages. A kabbalistic outline is found in the early alchemist manuscript of Saint Mark (11th century) called Solomon's Labyrinth. The wandering German alchemist, Salomon Trismosin, boasted that he drew his knowledge from kabbalistic writings which had been translated into Arabic. His great disciple, Paracelsus, maintained that expert knowledge of Kabbalah was an essential prerequisite for studying alchemy. However, neither he nor his master had more than a superficial knowledge of the Kabbalah, if any at all, although both talked about it a great deal. Paracelsus even based his strange theories on it, i.e., that of the creation of a *golem, a homunculus, through alchemy. The lesser Christian alchemists, especially the religious ones, following his example, also tended to make use of the Kabbalah for their purposes, though most had no knowledge of it. When, at the beginning of the 17thcentury, alchemy took a religious, mystical turn (in particular with the rise of the Rosicrucians), the prestige and influence of the Kabbalah became even more widespread; alchemy and Kabbalah became synonymous among Christians. This identification was generally speaking groundless. While many kabbalists undoubtedly accepted alchemy as a fact, the interests and symbol systems of Kabbalah and alchemy respectively were utterly different. Nevertheless occasional – albeit relatively insignifican – mutual influences are evident, and traces of alchemical lore are to be found in the *Zohar. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/alchemy

The division of Spirit into the Supernal Triad (Neshama, Chiah, Yechidah).

I don't see any mention of a sixfold system / Partzufim in the ET or CH, it seems cut and dry; Spirit, Soul, Body based philosophy, just wondering what you find Jewish about it?

Can you give specific examples of the Jewishness of the Corpus or ET, or are you saying the both spring from an earlier tradition, which I would agree with.

That's probably true, I dont enough about Daosim to say but likewise the Indian traditions, Rasayana, Ayurveda and Shaivism seem to be completely intact and it seems the whole of Hermetic cosmology and theory can be found in the Upanishads, just substitute 'Holy Guardian Angel' for the Atman. The whole of the western tradition seems at times to be a reconstruction of a reconstruction.

I'm not seeing any Jewish stuff grafted into the ET or the CH. Can you give some examples? Also, it should be noted the Zohar itself is dated 'late' and the Yetzirah is at the least a complete rip off of Pythagorean theories.

Correct, it is a verb not a noun, and can be applied internally and externally.

Hermetism (and for that matter, alchemy) existed before the popular version of the tree of life we are all familiar with came to be (unless we count the much older Sumerian versions). Personally, I find Hermetic concepts much simpler and more effective in their pure, neo-platonic form (as presented in the Corpus Hermeticum and the ET), rather than with all the Jewish stuff grafted on to it. That is, the principles presented in the above mentioned works, taught by an effective guide, can stand (that is to say, they work) on their own without Qabalah or Tarot, etc. With all that being said I think the stripped down version of qabalistic initiation presented by the GD is incredibly powerful in the right hands, and the qabalah presented by the founders of the GD is quite unlike any modern Jewish incarnations which I find to be rather 'fluffy'. Turns out the Qabalah practiced by the R+C might be an offshoot of a 'lost' oriental/continental Sabbatean Kabbalah, I'm sure you will enjoy the read at the following link which explains the connections there. Enjoy! The Origins of the Qabalistic Tradition of the Golden Dawn

Discussing reincarnation with Christians I have found their view of the concept entirely skewed, it is not an easy ticket out of 'sin' quite the opposite, because the burden and responsibility of life is thrust fully upon the shoulders of the individual, likewise it is not my personality that gets another chance, my government name and memories more or less return to dust... And this seems to be the most difficult bit... its hard for them to understand that it is not your personality that gets another chance, you might as well die and return to void because it is the same thing, it is a suffering of grandest sorts - in fact i would much prefer their worldview of being born, being lucky enough to be born into a Christian family, or accepting Jesus as savior and going straight to heaven, it doesn't get any easier than that in escaping the suffrage of this life. I am not an ardent supporter of reincarnation either, because it really seems like a great way to keep a caste system in place...a bit more in tune with Hermetic philosophy is the following; if this is all in the imagination of the One thing, and one were to go through a past life regression, one could potentially tune into all lives ever lived out in the past (and future) then falsely believe they were exclusive to their particular 'higher self' just as silly as the rest of the options. -End rant.

“Nature comprehends the visible and invisible Creatures of the Whole universe. What we call Nature especially, is the universal fire or Anima Mundi, filling the whole system of the Universe, and therefore is a Universal Agent, omnipresent, and endowed with an unerring instinct, and manifests itself in fire and Light. It is the First creature of Divine Omnipotence.” - (Anton Josef Kirchweger, Golden Chain of Homer, 1723) “The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.” - John 1:5 “Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless anyone be born of water and of the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.” - John 3:5 “When she recognized Peter’s voice, she was so overjoyed that she forgot to open the gate, but ran inside and announced, “Peter is standing at the gate!” “You are out of your mind,” they told her. But when she kept insisting it was so, they said, “It is his angel.” - Acts 12:14-15 “The one having an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one overcoming, I will give to him the manna having been hidden, and I will give to him a white stone, and on the stone new a name having been written, which no one has known, except the one receiving it.” - Revelation 2:17 “The Main Purpose and Finis Ultimus of the Hermetic Art is not to produce Gold, as the belief of the ill-informed lovers of Gold, but instead the study of God’s beautiful Miracles, which lie hidden in the abstruse rerum centro, and the contemplation of the Sacrarium Naturae benedictae, ejusque Majestatem occultum remoto velo.” - (Axiomata, 1736) “Whoever does not understand the right theory will hardly advance to the true practice of the Philosopher’s Stone, and whoever does not know what he is searching for does not know what he will find.” - (Johannes Helmond, Alchemy Unveiled, 1991) “The unworthy Lovers and Seekers, with their perverse or unnatural Subiectis and Laboribus, cannot bring the philosophical Sun and Moonchild into the World. They seek this divine natural Art without recognition of God and Nature; they do not even know what kind of thing Nature is, and they know not the inner workings of Nature. Their minds go constantly around the circumference, and they speak of the many effects of Nature, but they do not find the Centre of Nature, which causes all of the effects of Nature...They operate with nothing but bodies, whereas Nature deals with nothing but spermatic things. They seek an easy Art and heavy labour, but instead, it is a difficult Art and easy labour. They spend great amounts of money for materials which can be had for nothing (they cannot be bought in a store or Apothecary); they must be taken directly out of Nature. ” - (Microcosmic Prologue, 1720) “It is impossible that any mortal understands this Art, unless he has been previously enlightened by the Divine Light.” - (Dorn, Gerhard, Theatrum Chemicum, 1602) "Whosoever wants to obtain a benefit in the Art must learn to know the elements and their effects before they seek the Tincture of the Metals, observe their effects and reproduce them." - (Eugenius Philalethes (Thomas Vaughan), Euphrates, 1655) "Everybody knows how to cook water in the fire, however, if they would know how to cook our FIRE in our WATER, then their Knowledge of Nature would rise above that of the cooks." - (Thomas Vaughan, Aula Lucis, 1651) “You call the human being Microcosmum, and this is the proper name, but you never fully understood this. You should therefore understand us as we interpret the Microcosmum. In the same way as Heaven is constellated by herself, with all her Firmament, so is the human being constellated and ruled by himself. As little as the firmament in Heaven is ruled by a creature is the firmament in human beings ruled by other creatures, but it is instead, by itself, a might, a free firmament, without any commitment.” - (Paracelsus, Volume Paramirum) "The most high and kind God has the Evestrum mysteriale, in which his Nature and his Attributes can be seen, and through the Evestrum mysteriale, all the good and enlightenment can be recognized. Even the one who is damned has his Evestrum in this World, in which evil and everything is recognized. That is how fragile the Laws of Nature are." - (Paracelsus) "In all three Kingdoms, no creature can be without this Sulphur [speaking on the Light Body or Soul, the Microcosm, the Materia Proxima hidden in the Materia Secunda]; he is not the Life-Balsam, but virtually the glue with which the body is being kept together, and also the magnet which attracts the heavenly Sulphur or the Life-Balsam for the maintenance of the Creatures." - (Georg von Welling, Opus Mago-Cabbalisticum et Theosophocum, 1735) “Between the Animal-Kingdom and the inhabitants of the Lightworld beyond, stands the Human Being, half Animal and half Angel. When the Human Being turns towards the animal, it then devours the Angel. Should the Human Being nourish (sustain) himself with the nourishment of the heavenly Spirit, the Angel conquers the Animal, and the Human Being enters into the Temple of the eternal Light.” - (Johannes Helmond, Alchemy Unveiled, 1991) "The true Mumial body is drawn internally, artfully, out from its coarse quasiquidum [as indeed?] cover! x...X is the Denarius, that means, the true Arcanum" - (Johannes Helmond, Alchemy Unveiled, 1991) as an interpretation of Michael Maier who wrote the following in 1618, Themis Aurea: “The knowledge of the Arcanum should be the key. I will give you the secret: t. tmmb. id. i. a. ofi. c. qqc. x Open if you can!" "The tincture or the Soul of Sulphur cannot be new-born in her own impure body [soul of Salt?], she must leave the earthly dark house and take on a new pure body before she can unite herself with the heavenly Light." - (Eugenius Philalethes (Thomas Vaughan), Euphrates, 1655) “For when Hermes says that the separation of the ancient philosophers is made upon Water, dividing into four substances, that it is not the common elementated water to which he alludes; any more than did Thales when he said that all things were generated from thence, or Moses when he taught that the Spirit of God moved creatively upon the face of the same. This water they speak of is not the fluid with which in this life we are conversant, either as dew, or of clouds, or air condensed in caverns of the earth, or artificially distilled in a receiver out of sea fountains, either of pits, or rivers, as the empirical chemists formerly imagined --- but it is the ethereal body of life and light which they profess to have discovered, --- a certain tortured water, having suffered alteration by art and becomes corporified. O how wonderful, exclaims the Arabian, is that thing which has in itself all things which we seek, to which we add nothing different or extract, only in the separation removing superfluities.” - (Mary Anne Atwood, A Suggestive Inquiry, 1850) “For the imperfect body is converted into the first matter, and those waters being conjoined with our water do make one pure and clear water, purifying all things and yet containing in itself all necessary things. And this water of which and with which our magistery is effected, is both dear and cheap, for it dissolveth bodies not with common solution as the ignorant report, which converts the body into cloud water, but by the true philosophical solution, in which the body is changed into its first water of which it hath been from the beginning this self same body. That is, the water transforms bodies into Ashes. But know this, that the Art of Alchemy is a gift of the Holy Ghost and know that in our days we have had Master Arnold de Villa Nova in the Roman Court, a great Physician and Divine, who hath also been a notable Alchimist, who made small wedges of gold which wedges he granted to be put to any trial.” - (Alphidius, Rosarium Philosophorum) “It is plain that outwardly we see nothing but what is gross - for example earth, water, stones … All these things have a lumpish, ineffectual outside, but inwardly they are full of a subtle luminosity, impregnated with fire; and this Nature makes use of in generation. Therefore we call it the sperm.” - (Eugenius Philalethes (Thomas Vaughan), Aula Lucis, 1655) “That is why Human Beings alone enjoy this honour, they partake in everything, work together with everything, and they are in contact with everything. They share in the materia of their own subject; when it comes to the elements through their fourfold body; when it comes to the plants through the vegetative energy; when it comes to the animals through the sensory life; when it comes to Heaven through the etheric Spirit and the influence of the upper parts upon the lower parts; when it comes to the Angels through their reason and wisdom; when it comes to God through the personification of All. Human Beings associate with God and the Intelligences through Belief and Wisdom, with Heaven and the heavenly through reason and speech and with all the lower things through the sensory life.” - (Cornelius Agrippa, Occult Philosophy) So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being;" the last Adam a life-giving spirit. - (1 Corinthians 15:45)

If you believe in absolute reason; if you desire truth and justice before all things, you will have no occasion to fear anyone, and you will love those only who are deserving of love. Your natural light will repel instinctively that of the wicked, because it will be ruled by your will. Thus, even poisonous substances, if such are administered to you, will not affect your intelligence; ill indeed they may make you, but never criminal. - Eliphas Levi

To preserve ourselves against influences, the first condition is to forbid excitement to the imagination. All who are prone to exaltation are more or less mad, and a maniac is ever governed by his mania. Place yourself therefore above puer- ile fears and vague desires; believe in supreme wisdom and be assured that this wisdom, having given you understanding as the means of knowledge, cannot seek to lay snares for your intelligence or reason. - Eliphas Levi

The phenomena you experience in life (memories and feelings), it is not the powers you awaken through practice (The Siddhis) not is any sort of dogma, doctrine or faith (anything that tickles your cognitive capabilities whether Christianity, Islam or Thelema), so then, what is it?

I think its worth mentioning when I speak of contacting godhead or supernal, I am really speaking about a particular depth and quality of mind (after-all, where else would we find Godhead?) which is by nature; a Unity - so practically speaking, it like establishing a repertoire with this quality/depth of mind and consciously re-integrating this state into our waking conscious (and vice-versa).

Thats interesting.

I think this is an important subject to bring up, I would imagine part of being a true initiate, would be the ability to properly follow the protocol of the inner worlds and ensure you are dealing with the highest form of the specified inner contact possible, this would involve the ability to properly question and scan the intelligence one is dealing with, that is thinking like an initiate with the energy of intiate - which is not possible without a conscious link to the Supenal Triad, Godhead, HGA, whatever term one may choose - so the first line of business for the intelligent initiate would be to establish and solidify this contact before soliciting ones soul to god knows what , and as far as I can tell most youtube teachers and so-called 'magick' training course seem to not have the slightest clue of how to do neither do they have the what or why of doing so.

Ah gee wiz, thank you, the variety for freedom bit I picked up from somewhere or someone although worded differently, the rest is my doing :-)

Its a fascinating topic, many streams, one ocean. Especially liked UFAs, a breaking down of the current, base mental constructs of emotion and cognition, to allow the rebirth of a new one, which confers upon the initiate a new understanding of mundane reality which is more than intellectual, and I would imagine that it is an infinite process. I am weary of 'group initiations' via ritual, seems like that offers more of a peak experience, which if not reinforced will quickly fade. It seems like the inner route is more substantive. Another sure fire, clear definition imo, is 'something' that cracks within, psychosomaticly speaking, that is encompassing both mind and thought which cannot be turned off, its as if once crossing a certain line, the process cannot be reversed although it may stagnate.

i know the terms and definitions vary in the western traditions, all the way from egypt to sufism to abramelin to jung. But is there a rough general equivalency in Daosim? Like an overself or totality of te individual that surpasses time and space?

Yes! I think we can agree, placebo will only go so far yet is still powerful in its own right?

I know this to be false.

Well yeah, but its not technology in the modern sense of the word. Occultism is a science but it is not scientific, ultimately the currents we utilize cannot be measured by lab equipment. Edit: This is a great question because it got me thinking, as such: I can shine a laser pointer at an undiscovered tribe in the amazon and they would believe it is 'magic' and probably believe I am a God, but that is hardly what we are talking about. A laser beam, as a light wave can be measured by our modern equipment, that is, our cognitive abilities can grasp it's mathematical properties through our tools of measurement (which are really just extensions of our basic 5 senses) Talismanic magic is more akin to hitting the lottery on a consistent basis. there is pattern there that can be tracked but its source cannot be quantified.

Yo

From my limited understanding, the Perfect Man/Sage in Daoism, is still the man, or the time-space ego 'perfected' - meaning, it is a very practical ideal, it does not require a sort of surrender to a higher plane but simply requires work and discipline. It is easy to grasp, ie. "The perfect man uses his mind like a mirror". It seems the western percept would be that the Higher Self is the mirror (God>Higher Self>Me), which makes things a bit more abstract. Ie. The Theugist discovers his ego is being 'used' by his Higher Self/Angel much like a puppet to gather information from time space and return that information to timelessness, a concept I am not entirely comfortable with nor should anyone be (its creepy isnt it, thats the resitance of initiation). Although, the end result for the ego here in the world would be the same as that of the Sage, that is, "It is only the perfect man (sage) who is able to enjoy himself in the world and not be deflected from the right, to accommodate himself to others and not lose himself." - tao te ching edit: horrendous spelling oversights :-)