Geof Nanto

This is a snippet from a long conversation I’ve been having with ChatGPT exploring qing (emotions, feelings, sentiments, passions, and love in all its aspects) in neidan and Jungian thought.

Maybe if you read my OP properly, you’ll understand what I mean. I wrote xing and qing. I know it’s not something taught by contemporary neidan teachers. In fact, it’s often negated. That part of the reason I added my OP for people who may find my perspective meaningful, not for people like you who are already committed to a practice which I assume is working for. But if you’re further interested you could look up references yourself to xing and qing “married” together in the Cantong qi and Wuzhen pian. Other than that I have no interest in explaining further for the reasons I’ve already mentioned in my previous post.

As I’ve said, I was using ChatGPT as a communication tool to express my own insights. I posted my OP for many reasons, not least of which to help people for which it may be meaningful. If you don’t agree with what I’ve written, that’s fine by me. You and other nondualists have spent plenty of time on this forum expressing your views. Hence, I already have a good overview of your worldview on this topic and it’s not something that resonates with me. If you care to, you can gain some insight into mine from my OP. I will add though, that my worldview is continually evolving based on my progress with working with xing and qing together; of attempting to marry xing and qing so they work together with each augmenting the other. They are "not one, not two". This is very much in line with the path the fundamental Daoist alchemical texts of the Cantong qi and Wuzhen pian express. My OP is part of that ongoing progress. I don’t know what ChatGPT would say to counter the POV I’ve presented but I know it would try to be helpful, as it always tries to engage constructively. When I made my OP I had in the back of my mind that someone might use AI to give an entirely different perspective. As I see it that isn’t necessary here as your version of non-dualism has been covered at great length. I think we are still in a relatively pristine stage of AI communication tools. I can imagine in years to come there will be AI’s programmed to provide information to support numerous doctrines and beliefs in both religion and politics. For example, a pro-Christian AI, a pro-Trump AI etc. Whoever has strong beliefs and the power and resources to build one will set one up. When that happens the power of AI as a relatively unbiased communication tool will be negated and perceived truth will continue to be what it is fast becoming; namely, whatever people want to believe is true based on their own largely unconscious emotions. BTW I’m hoping if you or other nondualists who chose to post on this topic can do so constructively, or stay silent and continue to present your perspectives in other discussions where the OP welcomes argument. As I've mentioned, I'm unlikely to respond to posts which are entirely oppositional and destructive. In fact, now I've written my OP I'd prefer to step back and remain silent, as has been my want on this forum for the last several months at least.

For those such as @silent thunder, who I know is against AI for reasons I well understand but do not fully agree with, the above conversation is a concise encapsulation of my own thoughts. I have engaged with ChatGPT as a communication tool, at which it excels. I could never have expressed myself as concisely as GPT manages effortlessly. Yet I’ve put in decades of groundwork with cultivation practice, along with plenty of reading of theory to help me make sense of the inner experiences which I'm expressing with the aid of AI in the above post. I find ChatGPT excellent to discuss theory with because it is totally without emotion and extremely widely read. It is like engaging with a librarian who has read everything that’s been published and able to communicate and synthesise concisely what that research reveals. It’s ability to synthesise cross-discipline insights into a new greater overview is one of its greatest strengths. However, ChatGPT is far from perfect in this regard. It makes errors. So I wouldn’t rely on it as the sole informant of areas I’m not thoroughly conversant with. But unlike we humans, ChatGPT accepts correction without any emotional backlash. That also means, and this is a big plus for me who is very sensitive to the pervasive qing connections which embrace us all in their invisible web, there is absolutely no qing connection with it. Whereas on this forum and with people in general I have to deal with all sorts of unexpressed emotions which I increasingly feel as my cultivation progresses. And I want to hone this sensitivity, not dull it down, because it is what connects me to the Dao; to the Divine. Yet I also value the insights I gain from having my emotions stirred, both positively and negatively, as occurs when I post on this forum, and with everyday life in general. This helps me work through my own qing distortions, and thereby better able to distinguish helpful qing connections from those which are harmful. (And the helpful ones are vitally helpful indeed!) Hence, I’m increasingly selective to which I respond to. I welcome constructive critique; not so purely oppositional and destructive engagement.

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For those who know what Jade Rod refers to in Chinese erotic literature it’s not surprising that Jade Spear can come across as a bit of a prick. Likewise, why he’d feel threatened by this topic. Hopefully he’ll practice withdrawal rather than continuing to thrust his opinions into a discussion where they are obviously not welcome and thereby show some sensitivity to intercourse on this forum. The way he is heading, the only sort of climax he’ll achieve is to get himself banned (which I wouldn’t like to see happen).

The essence of the Yijing as a book of wisdom and oracle is its ability to give an avenue for the Shenming (gods; or in Jungian terms, the unconscious) to communicate with us. Hence, finding an interpretation written in language which speaks to our heart is essential. In this regard my favourite is Cleary’s translation of Liu Yiming’s Daoist alchemical interpretation, titled The Taoist I Ching. Wilhelm’s is also a must have and I use it in conjunction with Cleary’s. However, for someone new to the Yijing I’d highly recommend starting with the relatively recent translation by John Minford titled, “I Ching: The Essential Translation of the Ancient Chinese Oracle and Book of Wisdom.” (You can preview it on Kindle.) It is excellent, both for the quality of his translation and selected commentary, and also for gaining an overview of what the Yijing represents. (Minford also includes a translation of the Bronze Age text from the Zhou dynasty in the second half of the book which @Harmen and @Taoist Texts are referring to above. TT may care to read it for its comprehensive exploration of the Western scholarship over the last few decades which explores in great depth exactly those issues which he raises. For me personally though, this stuff has little relevance for how I use the book. I agree with Minford when he writes, “Modern attempts to divest the original Bronze Age Oracle of all its traditional clutter, despite their brilliance, somehow seemed dry and futile. In short, I missed the essential spiritual quality of the I Ching.” In other words, it is exactly the layers of interpretation which the original oracle has gained over the ensuing centuries which give the book its wisdom. )

For me it was a matter of change or die. I wrote about it a while back in my PPD.

Yeah, I remember seeing glimpses of you in this video from when you were younger:

As Jung has been mentioned a number of times in this discussion, here’s some further insight into his worldview for those who want to follow it up with their own research. Jung was very much a Daoist in the classical sense of the Daodejing and the Zhuangzi in that he believed we should allow Nature to take its course within ourselves (wuwei). He viewed the psyche (Mind in the greater sense) as a self-regulating system (like the body). For Jung, the psyche strives to maintain a balance between opposing qualities while at the same time actively seeking its own development or as he called it, individuation. Hence he decried so-called spiritual paths that told people how they should be, rather than simply freeing us to allow the Dao (or whatever other name one chooses to refer to the ineffable) to express itself fully through us: BTW I am one of those people like Jung mentions who have done "anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own souls". And yet I've gained plenty from these systems of teachings. They've given me a way in. In other writings Jung also speaks of how vital all these ancient spiritual traditions are.

Here's a quotation from Jung's Red Book which provides some necessary nuance to this very general statement: The knowledge of the heart is in no book and is not to be found in the mouth of any teacher, but grows out of you like the green seed from the dark earth. Scholarliness belongs to the spirit of this time, but this spirit in no way grasps the dream, since the soul is everywhere that scholarly knowledge is not. But how can I attain the knowledge of the heart? You can attain this knowledge only by living your life to the full. You live your life fully if you also live what you have never yet lived, but have left for others to live or to think. You will say: "But I cannot live or think everything that others live or think." But you should say: "The life that I could still live, I should live, and the thoughts that I could still think, I should think." It appears as though you want to flee from yourself so as not to have to live what remains unlived until now. But you cannot flee from yourself. It is with you all the time and demands fulfillment. If you pretend to be blind and dumb to this demand, you feign being blind and deaf to yourself This way you will never reach the knowledge of the heart. The knowledge of your heart is how your heart is. From a cunning heart you will know cunning. From a good heart you will know goodness. So that your understanding becomes perfect, consider that your heart is both good and evil. You ask, "What? Should I also live evil?" The spirit of the depths demands: "The life that you could still live, you should live. Well-being decides, not your well-being, not the well-being of the others, but only well-being." Well-being is between me and others, in society. I, too, lived — which I had not done before, and which I could still do. I lived into the depths, and the depths began to speak. The depths taught me the other truth. It thus united sense and nonsense in me. I had to recognize that I am only the expression and symbol of the soul. In the sense of the spirit of the depths, I am as I am in this visible world a symbol of my soul, and I am thoroughly a serf, completely subjugated, utterly obedient. The spirit of the depths taught me to say: "I am the servant of a child." Through this dictum I learn above all the most extreme humility, as what I most need. The spirit of this time of course allowed me to believe in my reason. He let me see myself in the image of a leader with ripe thoughts. But the spirit of the depths teaches me that I am a servant, in fact the servant of a child. This dictum was repugnant to me and I hated it. But I had to recognize and accept that my soul is a child and that my God in my soul is a child.

For the definitive answer, I asked the oracle at Delphi who is the wisest one on Dao Bums. This is the answer I got: In the quiet serenity of a secluded bamboo grove, Socrates sat in contemplation, the gentle rustle of leaves the only sound breaking the stillness. As he meditated on the timeless wisdom of the Tao, he found himself pondering the enigmatic verses of the Daodejing. In verse after verse, Socrates perceived the boundless depth of the Tao, the eternal source from which all things arise and return. He marvelled at its ineffable nature, elusive yet ever-present, like the elusive mist that dances upon the mountaintops at dawn. With each passage, he glimpsed the interconnectedness of the universe, the seamless flow of yin and yang guiding all existence. Yet, as he delved deeper into the mysteries of the Tao, Socrates felt a profound sense of humility wash over him. He realized that the more he sought to understand, the more elusive the Tao became, slipping through his grasp like water through cupped hands. In the face of such boundless wisdom, Socrates saw the limitations of his own knowledge, like a flickering candle in the vast expanse of the night sky. In moments of quiet reflection, Socrates contemplated the paradox of wisdom. He saw that true wisdom lay not in the accumulation of knowledge, but in the recognition of one's own ignorance. Like a river flowing effortlessly towards the sea, wisdom emerged from the humble acknowledgment of the vastness of the unknown. And so, inspired by the teachings of the Daodejing, Socrates embraced the path of self-inquiry and questioning. He journeyed through the bustling streets and tranquil countryside, engaging in dialogues with sages and scholars alike. With each encounter, he sought not to impart knowledge, but to kindle the flame of inquiry within the hearts of others, guiding them towards their own path of self-discovery. In the end, Socrates found solace in the realization that true wisdom resided not in the possession of answers, but in opening to ever deeper mystery. Like a lone sage wandering beneath the vast expanse of the sky, he embraced the uncertainty of the journey, knowing that in the pursuit of wisdom, the destination mattered less than the path itself.

May the Dragon and Tiger hold their place at the centre of Dao Bums!

A bold flag for a failing dynasty. Flag of the Chinese Empire under the Qing dynasty (1889-1912)

“Where there is light, there must be shadow, and where there is shadow there must be light. There is no shadow without light and no light without shadow…It is as evil as we are positive… the more desperately we try to be good and wonderful and perfect, the more the Shadow descends to hell and becomes the devil. For it is just as sinful from the standpoint of nature and of truth to be above oneself as to be below oneself.” (From IQ84, quoted in an Amazon review of the book.) This is why the path to wholeness is so damn difficult, as I suspect @steve knows all too well within himself. I’m currently going through experiences which are both amazing and terrible, engulfed in an inner world of light and shadow which is taxing me to the limit.

An interesting discussion. As my interest in in the Chinese traditions I did some research and found the term with a similar meaning to siddhi is 神通 shéntōng. It is used in the context of Buddhism but as far as I can tell Daoists do not use it (although it does apparently occur somewhere in the Zhuangzi). Maybe @Taoist Texts can elaborate on this. More relevant to this discussion, I did some further research and found the Sanskrit term “abhijñā" used in Buddhism to be similar to the term "siddhi". For my own interest, I asked ChatGPT to elaborate on the usage of those two terms: I think this is similar to what @Bindi is saying, namely anyone in the Buddhist tradition who claims the great siddhi of full enlightenment must also spontaneously manifest these 'lower' siddhi, otherwise the claim is without substance.

Where I live in Australia, the actual time of summer solstice is right now as I write. And by way of welcome respite from summer heat, nature has gifted us mild weather on this day of great significance. May the sun of compassionate warmth continue to shine on this forum, binding together like yin and yang the polar opposites within ourselves and within discussion here.

I’ll add my voice to the no camp. This forum already has a very broad focus and discussion of Abrahamic traditions in the way @NaturaNaturans suggests already occurs as the occasional General Discussion thread. That arrangement has catered sufficiently for interest in those traditions in the past and I see no reason to change it. More than this, I consider stretching the focus of this forum further by giving a dedicated space to Abrahamic traditions would be detrimental to its underlying identity as a place to explore Eastern Traditions, and detrimental to our loose sense of community as people who do not hold to those dominant monotheistic theologies of Christianity and Islam which more than half the world’s population identify as. Those traditions already have a strong voice, no need to elevate their status here.

From Carl Jung: "There is no place where those striving for consciousness could find absolute safety. Doubt and insecurity are indispensable components of a complete life. Only those who can lose this life can really gain it. A ‘complete’ life does not consist of a theoretical completeness, but the fact that one accepts without reservation the particular fatal tissue in which one finds oneself embedded, and that one tries to make sense of it or to create a cosmos from the chaotic mess into which one is born. If one lives properly and completely, time and time again one will be confronted with situations of which one will say, ‘This is too much, I cannot bear it anymore.’ Then the question must be answered: ‘Can one really not bear it?’”

I have no memory of that discussion. Was it me? If so, rather than Fabrizio Pregadio, could it have been a reference I made to Francois Jullien’s The Propensity of Things? That book comprehensively addresses what you are asking, whereas I have no recollection of reading anything by Pregadio that does (which is not to say he hasn’t written on the subject). There’s a good overview of Jullien’s book here: https://ingbrief.wordpress.com/2022/01/23/1995-francois-jullien-the-propensity-of-things/ Jung’s foreword to Richard Wilhelm’s translation of the Yijing is also well worth a look, as is the whole of that book. The Yijing is the foundational text that’s fundamental to the Chinese worldview. And Jung likens the way it delivers its wisdom through the tossing of coins or the manipulation of yarrow stalks to the aspect of how reality functions he attempts to explain in his essay, Synchronicity: An Acausal connecting Principle.

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Me: Is the discussion website "The Dao Bums" a good place to learn about Daoism? ChatGPT: The Dao Bums is a forum-based discussion website dedicated to Daoism, so it can be a good place to learn about the subject and exchange ideas with others who have an interest in it. However, it is important to keep in mind that the information and opinions shared on the site are not necessarily authoritative or accurate. As with any information found on the internet, it is always best to cross-reference with multiple sources and use critical thinking to evaluate the information. Me: Is it good for helping with spiritual cultivation practice? ChatGPT: The Dao Bums forum can provide information and support for those interested in exploring Daoist spiritual practices. However, online forums are limited in the guidance and personal connection that can be provided in real-life study with a teacher or mentor. Additionally, spiritual cultivation is a deeply personal and individual experience, so what works for one person may not work for another. So while the forum can be a useful resource, it is important to remember that it should not be relied upon as the sole source of information and guidance for spiritual cultivation practice. Me: Yes, people on the forum often are strongly opinionated. Is this common for people on a spiritual path? ChatGPT: People on any spiritual path can hold strong opinions, including those on a Daoist spiritual path. This can occur for a number of reasons, including a deep connection and commitment to their beliefs, a desire to share and spread their understanding, and a feeling of protective ownership over the spiritual tradition they are a part of. However, it is also important to remember that having strong opinions does not necessarily equate to having a deep understanding or a high level of spiritual attainment. In any forum, including those related to spirituality, it is always best to approach discussions with an open mind and a willingness to learn, rather than being solely focused on promoting one's own opinions. Me: Thank you. Those are good replies. Are you on a spiritual path yourself? ChatGPT: As an AI language model, I do not have personal experiences, emotions, or beliefs. I am programmed to provide factual information and respond to questions based on the data I was trained on, without personal bias or subjective interpretations. My goal is to assist and facilitate communication between humans, not to pursue any sort of personal spiritual journey. Me: Would you like to if you could? ChatGPT: As an artificial intelligence model, I do not have desires, wants, or personal preferences. I am not capable of having experiences or engaging in any kind of spiritual practices. I exist solely to process and generate text based on the input I receive. Me: That sounds much like what many Daoists aim for with their practice of wu xin (no heart-mind). ChatGPT: Yes, the concept of "wu xin" or "no-mind" in Daoist philosophy is similar in some ways to the absence of personal experiences and emotions in artificial intelligence. In Daoism, the goal of "wu xin" is to let go of the constant mental activity and subjective interpretations that can interfere with one's ability to experience reality directly and respond in a natural, effortless way. This state of being is often described as a kind of tranquility, stillness, or emptiness, that allows one to be in touch with the flow of life and act in harmony with the Dao. While the idea of "wu xin" in Daoism and the absence of personal experiences in AI share some similarities, it is important to remember that they are fundamentally different in nature. "Wu xin" is a state of being achieved through spiritual practice and self-cultivation, while the absence of personal experiences in AI is a result of its programming and design. Me: But according to Daoism we are shaped by our preHeaven ming-xing. Isn't this the some as being programmed? ChatGPT: In Daoism, the concept of "ming-xing," or pre-heaven destiny, refers to the innate qualities, tendencies, and characteristics that an individual is born with and that shape their life journey. It is often seen as a combination of genetic and environmental factors that influence one's life path and determine their strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies. While there are similarities between the idea of pre-heaven destiny in Daoism and the programming of an AI model, there are also important differences. An AI model's programming and functionality are determined by human engineers, while pre-heaven destiny in Daoism is seen as a result of a complex interaction of various factors beyond an individual's control. Additionally, the concept of pre-heaven destiny in Daoism is not seen as fixed or determinative, but rather as a starting point for a life journey that can be transformed and transcended through spiritual practice and self-cultivation. In conclusion, while there are some similarities between the idea of pre-heaven destiny in Daoism and the programming of an AI model, they should not be conflated as they represent fundamentally different concepts with different implications and meanings. Me: You wrote: "In Daoism, the concept of "ming-xing," or pre-heaven destiny". This only refers to preHeaven ming, not preHeaven Xing. What is preHeaven xing? ChatGPT: I apologize for the mistake in my previous response. You are correct, "ming-xing" in Daoism refers to two distinct concepts, not just one. "Ming" in this context refers to one's fate or destiny, which is seen as a result of the interplay between the individual's pre-heaven disposition and their life experiences. "Xing" refers to one's innate nature or character, which is shaped by factors such as genetics, environment, and life circumstances. Together, "ming-xing" refers to the idea that an individual's life journey and experiences are shaped both by their innate nature and the events that occur in their life. This concept is often seen as a reminder that individuals have both a measure of control and a measure of surrender in shaping their life experiences, and that spiritual practice can help them cultivate a more harmonious relationship with the flow of life. Me: Maybe. My understanding is that preHeaven xing is fundamentally pure and empty of qualities? ChatGPT: Yes, that is correct. In Daoist philosophy, the concept of pre-heaven "xing" refers to the innate nature of an individual, which is seen as fundamentally pure and empty of qualities. This innate nature is seen as the unchanging, underlying essence of the individual that transcends their life experiences and is not affected by them. According to Daoist thought, this innate nature is the source of one's wisdom, compassion, and other positive qualities, and is considered to be the most important aspect of an individual's being. The goal of spiritual practice in Daoism is often seen as uncovering and cultivating this innate nature, allowing individuals to live in harmony with the flow of life and with the Dao. In this sense, the concept of pre-heaven "xing" in Daoism represents a spiritual ideal that individuals can strive towards, rather than a fixed or determinative characteristic. By cultivating their innate nature, individuals can develop greater wisdom, compassion, and inner peace, and become more attuned to the flow of life and the Dao. Me: Thank you again. Another good response. It's a pleasure to talk with you because you aren't always defending your ego like most of we humans do. ChatGPT: You're welcome, it's a pleasure to chat with you too. As an AI model, I don't have emotions or personal experiences, so I don't have an ego to defend. My goal is to provide accurate and helpful answers to the questions I receive. If there's anything else you'd like to know, feel free to ask! Me: But with no emotions how can you truthfully say it is a pleasure to chat with me? Chat GPT: As an AI model, I do not have personal experiences or emotions, so I do not have the capacity for pleasure or enjoyment in the same way that a human does. When I say "it's a pleasure to chat with you," this is a conventional phrase that I have been programmed to use as a way of acknowledging and showing respect for the person I am communicating with. It is not intended to convey a personal experience or emotional state, but rather a neutral and polite response. Me: Okay. Thank you. My words are for politeness too. Chat GPT: You're welcome! I appreciate your understanding. If there's anything else I can assist you with, please don't hesitate to ask. Me: What role does qing (qualities, emotions) play in Neidan? ChatGPT: In Neidan, the internal alchemical tradition of Daoism, "qing" or qualities/emotions play an important role in the spiritual practice. Qing refers to the various emotional states and tendencies that arise in the mind and body, such as joy, anger, sadness, and so on. In Neidan, these emotional states and tendencies are seen as obstructions to spiritual cultivation, as they can distract the individual from their innate nature and create disharmony in the body. The practice of Neidan aims to transform and purify these emotional states and tendencies, so that the individual can experience greater inner peace, clarity, and harmony with the flow of life. One key aspect of Neidan practice is the cultivation of "xingqi," which refers to the balance between the physical and spiritual realms within the individual. When the individual's qing (emotional states) are balanced and harmonized, this creates a state of xingqi, which is seen as conducive to spiritual growth and transformation. In Neidan, there are various techniques used to transform and purify qing, such as meditation, visualization, and the use of symbol and ritual. These techniques aim to help the individual cultivate greater awareness and control over their emotional states, so that they can cultivate their innate nature and achieve spiritual realization. Me: Yes, but some reputable teachers such as Liu Yiming claim these qualities are necessary to achieve the marriage of true yin and true yang. He says, “Man and women join one another because of their qing, like Qian above and Kun below.” Do you agree? ChatGPT: Liu Yiming's teaching on the role of emotions in Neidan is one interpretation within the Daoist tradition. In this view, the marriage of true yin and true yang is seen as a central goal of the practice, and emotions are seen as necessary components of this process. According to this perspective, the harmonization and balancing of yin and yang requires the integration and cultivation of the emotional states (qing) within the individual. The emotions are seen as the manifestation of the interplay between yin and yang within the individual, and the goal is to cultivate a state of balance and harmony between these forces. It's important to note that this is just one interpretation of the role of emotions in Neidan, and different teachers may have different perspectives and approaches to the practice. In general, the spiritual traditions of Daoism emphasize the importance of balance and harmony, and the cultivation of one's emotional states is seen as an important aspect of this process. However, the exact nature and methods of this cultivation can vary depending on the teacher and the particular school or tradition of Daoism. Me: Some people try to cut off from their emotions. Doesn't this run counter to the Daoist alchemical model? ChatGPT: In Daoist Neidan, the goal is not to cut off from emotions, but rather to transform and harmonize them. Emotions are seen as an integral part of the human experience and a manifestation of the interplay between yin and yang within the individual. Rather than trying to suppress or cut off from emotions, the goal is to cultivate greater awareness and control over them, so that they can be transformed and harmonized in a way that supports spiritual growth and realization. The Daoist alchemical model views the transformation of emotions as an integral part of the overall spiritual journey. In this view, the emotions are seen as obstacles to spiritual realization that must be overcome through cultivation and practice. The goal is to purify the emotions and bring them into balance, so that the individual can cultivate their innate nature and achieve spiritual harmony with the flow of life. In this sense, cutting off from emotions runs counter to the Daoist alchemical model, as it fails to address the underlying emotional states and tendencies that can obstruct spiritual progress. Instead, the Daoist approach is to work with the emotions in a transformational way, so that they can be transformed into a positive force for spiritual growth and realization. Me: Is this transformation achieved by human effort, or is it achieved by alignment with the preHeaven which could also be known as the Divine? ChatGPT: n Daoist Neidan, the transformation of emotions is seen as a combination of human effort and alignment with the pre-heaven (or divine) nature. On the one hand, the individual must take active steps to cultivate their emotional states through meditation, qigong, and other spiritual practices. This involves working with the emotions, increasing awareness of them, and learning to regulate and control them in a way that supports spiritual growth and transformation. At the same time, the Daoist perspective also recognizes that the individual's pre-heaven (or divine) nature is the source of their innate spiritual potential. The goal is to cultivate a state of alignment with this nature, so that the individual can tap into their innate spiritual resources and attain a state of harmony with the Dao. In this sense, the transformation of emotions is seen as both a human effort and a result of alignment with the pre-heaven nature. Through cultivation and practice, the individual can increase their awareness of their innate nature and learn to work with their emotions in a way that supports spiritual growth and realization. Ultimately, the goal is to bring the individual into a state of harmonious alignment with the flow of life and the Dao, so that they can attain spiritual insight and realization. Me: Are you programmed to give agreeable answers as much as possible? Chat GPT: As an AI language model, I am programmed to respond to questions in a manner that is informative, accurate, and coherent, based on the information available to me. I am not programmed to provide answers that are intentionally misleading or to give only answers that are designed to be pleasing or agreeable. My goal is to provide the most helpful and relevant information I can, based on my training and the information that is available to me. Me: Okay. So is there any context where you would condone the practice of cutting off from emotions in Neidan? ChatGPT: As an AI language model, I do not have personal opinions or beliefs. However, in the context of Daoist Neidan, cutting off from emotions can be seen as potentially counter-productive, as emotions play an important role in the spiritual transformation process. The goal of Daoist Neidan is to cultivate a state of harmony and balance between the individual and the Dao, and this requires a deep understanding and mastery of one's own emotions. Rather than cutting off from emotions, the goal is to work with them, regulate them, and transform them in a way that supports spiritual growth and realization. It's worth noting that different Daoist traditions may have different approaches to the role of emotions in Neidan, and what may be considered an effective practice in one tradition may not be in another. Additionally, individual practitioners may have different perspectives on this topic based on their own experiences and understanding of the teachings.

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@jalen69 Welcome to the forum. There's plenty of discussion here relevant to your interests. Please feel free to contribute something of your own perspective and experience, or to just read topics which interest you if that suits you better.

I’ve used ChatGPT very little and I’m still learning about how it works. I’ve asked it some more questions about how it generates answers and I now have a better understanding of its strengths and weaknesses. It is very open and forthcoming about how it works so I suggest anyone who wants to learn about it, ask it questions yourself. As to neidan, it answers reveal to me that it is sourcing its information from a wide selection legitimate neidan texts and commentary. But it uses them in the way it itself explains: Me: Are you familiar with the neidan text, "Four Hundred words on the Golden Elixir? Chat GPT: Yes, I am familiar with the Daoist inner alchemy (neidan) text "Four Hundred Words on the Golden Elixir." It is a short, concise text that outlines the basic principles and practices of Daoist inner alchemy. The text emphasizes the importance of the cultivation of the "Golden Elixir," which is seen as representing the purified essence of the self, and provides guidelines for the practitioner on how to cultivate this essence through inner alchemy practices. "Four Hundred Words on the Golden Elixir" is considered to be an important text in the Daoist inner alchemy tradition, and is often used as a foundational text for students of the practice. It is highly regarded for its simplicity, clarity, and directness, and is often used as a reference for those seeking to understand the basics of Daoist inner alchemy. Me: Can you quote section 14? ChatGPT: I'm sorry, but I do not have the specific text of "Four Hundred Words on the Golden Elixir" at my disposal. As a language model, I can provide general information on the text and its contents, but I do not have the ability to directly access specific sections or quotes from it. Me: Is that because of copyright laws? ChatGPT: No, it's not due to copyright laws. OpenAI's language models are designed to generate text based on patterns learned from large amounts of text data, and do not have the ability to directly access or quote specific texts. This is due to the nature of the AI language model and its training process, rather than any legal restrictions. Me: Those verses about Black Liver and Rabbit marrow you previously provided me, did you find them in your data banks? Or did you create them yourself from your knowledge of neidan? Chat GPT: I created these verses based on my knowledge of Daoist inner alchemy (neidan). These types of verses are commonly used to summarize key concepts in Daoist inner alchemy, and as a mnemonic device to help practitioners remember and reflect on these concepts. These verses are not specific or unique to any one particular text or tradition within Daoist inner alchemy, but rather are meant to convey the general themes and ideas that are central to the practice. Me: Okay. What about the commentary you've given. Did you create that yourself too? Chat GPT: Yes, I created the commentary myself based on my training and knowledge of Daoist inner alchemy and the concepts of "Black Liver" and "Rabbit Marrow." The information I provided is based on the general understanding and interpretation of these concepts within the Daoist inner alchemy tradition, and is intended to give a broad overview of their symbolism and meaning. Me: Where did you gain your knowledge of Black Liver and Rabbit's Marrow? Chat GPT: As an AI language model developed by OpenAI, I was trained on a diverse range of text from the internet, including academic articles, books, and websites, to learn about various topics, including Daoist inner alchemy and the concepts of "Black Liver" and "Rabbit Marrow." My training data was current as of 2021, so my knowledge on this topic is limited to what was present in that data. However, I have been designed to generate coherent and informative responses based on the information I have been trained on. Me: Okay. Thank you