Jonesboy

Sounds good. Should I say that what he has described is not ones True Nature to me? Just a stage along the path is all. Also, to you Steve is a True Realized Guru?

But they help one know where another is along the process Having experienced everything Steve has mentioned is me trying to figure out where he is at and with his Buddhist background equate that to Buddhist thought. For instance, the gap between thoughts is not emptiness, Rigpa is not the Witness and Form/Light is more than just something we feel or reside in. Not everything is scary, bad or a trap 3bob.

Hi Mark, No, concentration is not something that I have to work on. As described earlier, concentration practices would be a preliminary practice. I have found the Dao to be real and not a concept and when looking for others, I look within. What is not me or within me? I was hoping for a description of ones True Nature as experienced by members here. I have found that what is ones True Nature can be another's muddled mind. Kinda like the arguments that have gone on about how the Witness is Rigpa in other threads. All the best, Tom

Thank you both. May I ask you to go into more detail on these aspects. "I rest in the spaciousness, stillness, and silence that remains. Luminous, immediate, and vivid, yet utterly clear and transparent." As well as... " Like painting figures in air, the sky is untouched. Clear presence aware of its empty nature remains." That sounds more like one has touched deep silence or is this also where thoughts don't matter as they just float on by un-attaching. Is there anything more than silence? Also, does ones empty nature include ones body as you go about your day?

Hi Steve, I haven’t meditated in years. More meditation and life are one and the same. It’s all about being at this point. Please feel free to describe what ones True Nature as you have experienced it is like within any tradition or mixture that you wish. Mark, I would love your input as well. Thank you both.

What is ones true nature that even a newbie can experience? I have seen true nature mentioned many times. Do you mind describing it for me?

Dwai isn't talking about dreams. More he is talking about something you can experience now, or anytime.

I think we are up to 66 now. 66. Jesus said, "Show me the stone that the builders rejected: that is the keystone."

You have no facts. Also, nothing is idealistic, that is a concept. What has been offered in demonstrable anytime to anyone. Which would move it from a concept to a realization, a demonstrable realization that others can experience. That is, if they are not afraid that Jesus or Shiva will incinerate them o.O

3bob, As someone that has never merged with such a being I would ask that you please stop with the fear mongering. Telling people that connecting or merging to the divine might lead you to explode or be incinerated is a little rich The Divine are there to help and have natural compassion. They are not there to set people on fire.

Hi virtue, Very interesting comment about "Some of them require more initial dedication and "effort" to realize the original state" as that also goes along with earlier posts about non meditation and Dzogchen. It is my understanding that one of the practices that is taught by Dzogchen Master Norbu is Shine. In his book Dzogchen: The Practice of Contemplation the first thing he teaches is Shine with Object. The goal of shine with object is to experience silence and to be able to maintain this silence for hours. When one has accomplished shine with object they then move to Shine without Object. The goal here is to loosen up the concentration just enough to feel the movement of thoughts as energy. Not to get lost in the thoughts but to feel thoughts as movement of energy. It can feel like the wind flowing through your brain. Like the twirling of a fan or like a raging river within you. When one is able to maintain that flow of energy first in sitting practice and then in daily life one has realized Natural Shine and it is at this point where one is no longer meditating because it is more a state of being. It is also at this stage where Norbu say's one is truly ready for Dzogchen. Ready, I would assume for the pointing out instructions. Is this what you are referring to with regard to some needing more effort? It's seems like you have to realize gyuwa before you can realize Rigpa or else any pointing out instructions would be lost. Is this what you are familiar with?

Thank you Mark for your very nice reply. No, I am not talking about some contact high from being around an advanced being. Though I am aware of that happening a lot with people. More, I have seen with such contacts people with kundalini issues being cured, people with nightly panic attacks that would last for hours have them go away within days. I have seen people with such social phobia that going into a chat room was to much for them completely change and teach people. I have seen people that don't meditate or do any practices feel love from an open heart, feel energy from those around them, open their 3rd eye and more. I have seen people who are upset, lost in the mind with the help of the guru have the mind calmed, space given to allow the person to get past the upset. I have seen people who have never experienced silence be awash in it in daily life, people who have never experienced Rigpa, be introduced and reside in it. That is the type of stuff I am use to without even talking about divine beings and people feeling anything from peace to boundless love. It is all real, it is all possible and more. In my experience. .

To me, introducing someone to deeper levels of silence seems very guru yoga related.

I guess to keep things simple. How about a mind/body that is not experiencing silence or energy experiencing silence and or energy by the direct introduction from another?

So your answer is no.

Maybe we can move away from the topic of merging for a few. How about this. Is it possible for one person to directly introduce another to deeper states of being? Not through instructions but by directly touching another's mindstream for instance.

So you could say that with enough clarity and depth one can find all beings within themselves and connect to them?

I know Apech. Thank you

Because it takes some that long to progress. It isn't about being able to handle greater voltages, it is realizing you are that energy.

Sorry, I am really under the weather and shouldn't be typing, posting or doing much of anything at the moment.

3bob, That is a lot of speculation about see monsters and space ships. If you are still in the astral you are far from doing anything like merging. Seeing is not the same as being. Also, per your one essence... How can you realize you are the ocean if you are afraid to leave the wading pool? Eventually you have to realize that all such fears are of the mind.

Then why do any sort of meditation or system of practices if it is “already just as it is”? Because they help us realize deeper and deeper what that really means.

I would agree. Any such desire is exactly what will stop you from achieving the siddhi. I think anyone who meditates could relate.

With regard to A helping B and working with Divine Beings a couple of ways can be used. The first is to connect the student to his deity of choice. It is a powerful connection that is felt with the divine being. Another method is for A to directly merge the divine being to B. Another means is for B to use his connection to A to merge into the divine being. Typically this results in a connection rather than a merge for B, but it is a means for B to directly access the divine in a much more powerful way than he could on his own and without A doing it for him. With all of the above methods one can experience bliss, ecstasy, silence, energy in them, as them or around them. As well as love, tears of joy and a whole host of emotions and sensations. There are other ways of A helping B but I think that gives us enough meat on the bone to chew on. I would also agree that what I am describing is in no way Yidam Deity practices as described in any Buddhist texts. Yet the insights and the results are the same. Dharma is Dharma just some of the means may be different.

That is true, nothing does exist that isn't within me or as me. How can you become one if you think otherwise? Yet we are not just aspects of one being. We share an essence that is everything but even Buddhas are different from one another. That difference is powerful and the depth of clarity from me to a Buddha that I am connecting to within me can be amazing. A merge isn't a going outside of oneself, a looking in the astral. It is all within.