Jonesboy

John 10:23–38 23 Jesus was walking in the temple, hin the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are ithe Christ, jtell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. kThe works that I do lin my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but myou do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 nMy sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 oI give them eternal life, and pthey will never perish, and qno one will [pluck] them out of my hand. 29 My Father, rwho has given them to me,1 sis greater than all, and no one is able to [pluck] them out of tthe Father’s hand. 30 uI and the Father are one.” 31 vThe Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but wfor blasphemy, because you, being a man, xmake yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in yyour Law, z‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be abroken— 36 do you say of him whom bthe Father consecrated and csent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because dI said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 eIf I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, feven though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that gthe Father is in me and I am in the Father. http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jn%2010.23-38 Exodus 7:1 1And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Is void the same as emptiness?

Do you mind sharing then what Non dual or self actualization is like for you?

I would agree that is a nice description of the One. Remember emptiness is not a thing. If you can feel or experience a thing it is not emptiness. It goes back to Jeff's question. Again, I see emptiness as beyond all such things, even the One. Just my take. All the best.

I agree the direct experience is much more. Once experienced does one need to understand a fire needs wood and oxygen? Becomes kind of silly at that point. With your definition then nothing is different from the ultimate realization of a Buddha and the realization of being One like Siva. Yet the traditions like for instance the TTC talks about that which came before the light or as Jesus would say where the light came into being. The Dao to me is that which is beyond the light of consciousness. Not just that the light is empty. Which is why the Buddha said he is beyond Vishnu, beyond Brahma. Such concepts of the light is a limitation, emptiness is beyond all such things.

Thanks Apech, Paths may be different as well as the end result. I am just saying that Buddhism goes further up the mountain. A Buddha is different than being One like Siva.

Thank you Apech, I am well aware of those differences. To me Jeff's question was more about Ultimate Emptiness rather than the more intellectual dependent origination. KS does talk about emptiness, how could it not with the realization of the light and Universal Mind? The question to me was in KS there is nothing more than that light, than Universal Consciousness. Buddhism would say that beyond that is emptiness, that emptiness of Universal Consciousness is what makes a Buddha.

Thank you

I guess that would be the difference between KS and Buddhism.

How is void and form dependents? Also what is void and Void to you?

A nice step by step to the non dual.

Thank you, I would disagree that such residing in the movement is a conceptualized meditation. At that point it is more a being. To me it is dualistic because you and the flows, that movement is perceived as separate from you. You are resting in the movement, in the flow. You have not realized yet that you are that.

Do you mind sharing why you think it is dualistic?

If, instead, while observing my state I notice thoughts, such as for example: "Here, now I am in the calm state" or "Here, now a thoughts is arising", there is a way in which I can be present 'in' the thought itself without engaging the mechanisms of judgment. If I had to say or explain what is happening in that moment, on the one hand it is utterly impossible for me to find the words, but on the other hand I retain a precise memory of it. This presence of awareness is very important, it must not be lacking, otherwise the practice of Shine ends up sinking into a sleepy state. 2. A natural state of total spontaneity. This is what is called rigpa, the recognition of pure presence. Presence can be recognized above all in the condition where there are thoughts, that is, in the condition of 'movement'. When during practice there are more thoughts (that is, 'more fish are leaping') there is also the opportunity to recognize presence as the manifestation of wisdom, and, at the same time, together with the movement of thoughts one can also recognize the presence of the state of calm, nepa. You must understand that fundamentally all three states are at the same level: the state of calm, nepa, is movement, the state of movement itself, gyuwa, is calm, and rigpa is pure recognition of your own state, that is present in both. https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/43943-rigpa/ I would consider this definition to be dualistic.

Void is only half of the equation. When one realizes void=form then they rest in wuwei if you ask me.

It is all energy, one and the same. It is only the local mind, our obstructions that create such separation.

Here is a very nice article going over the differences. http://www.shaivism.net/articles/11.html There is much more but a brief example: Three important observations to highlight the differences in the manifestation philosophies of Vendana and Kashmir Shaivism are: a) Purusha While the Purusha of Vedanta is a Universal soul (God-like), He is atmen (pure spirit). In contrast, in Kashmir Shaivism it is bound soul – a jiva, nara, pashu or anu – a limited soul. Prakriti Prakriti in Vedanta is involved in manifestation as an independent element. It is a cosmic substance that is termed as perennial impulse in nature (like Shakti tattva). But the Prakriti of the Kashmir Shaivism deals with limited jiva only. c) Maya Maya in the Vedanta is the means of operation. It is not an element. It is force that creates the illusion of non-perception in nature. It has no reality. It is only the appearance of fleeting forms which are all unreal and like mirage vanishes when the knowledge of reality draws. In contrast, in Kashmir Shaivism maya is a tattva. It is real. It is the power of contraction or limiting the nature of five universal modes of consciousness. It cannot be separated from Absolute Reality – Parmshiva. 5. Three Gunas (attributes) Vedanta describes Prakriti as a combination of three Gunas – Satvic, Rajas, and Tamas. Further it describes the nature of these gunas. Thus Satva is enlightenment and pleasure; Rajas is turbulence and pain; and Tamas is ignorance and lethargy. It does not explain the source of the nature of these gunas. Kashmir Shaivism has examined this issue. In their view, Paramshiva possesses limitless power to know, to do, and to diversify. These powers are known as jnana, kriya, and maya. By the limitations brought about by maya, the Infinite Consciousness is reduced to finite consciousness – purusha (the limited being, anu or pashu).Here they view these experiences as pleasure, pain, and ignorance.

Basically that is nonsense and has nothing to do with finding heaven or the light within.

That seems to be the general view. Your doing something, we don't know what or how but there must be something wrong with it in someway. Again it was just a general question and not specific to any practice or tradition.

You either felt something or you didn’t. It’s no big deal and was just a general question to people. Whatever anyone felt or didn’t feel is a good answer. No reason to make fun of anyone for their response as both are valid.

The Tao is emptiness. To name it is to name a “thing” and emptiness isn’t a “thing.” So any experience or feeling or state of being is something you can name. All names reference “things.” Which is why he said. “ The Tao that can be named is not the true Tao.” Just my thinking on it. .

It seems that you could say the energy is clearer or seemed to take everything higher and now it seems the clearing away of issues to reside at those new higher levels are underway or being felt by many. My two cents anyways

Stop worrying about what is written in the past or what you think I am and pay attention to what I am teaching you. Kinda like that is old covenant stuff I am teaching new stuff.

Thank you for showing me the way.

Oh no I am saying no such thing. Forgive me for implying it. Just a bad joke is all.