Jonesboy

Anyone interested in continuing? 34: Jesus said, "If a blind person leads a blind person, both of them will fall into a hole."

Hi RT, Is it a method or a technique or the true reality of all things? If we look at Form=Emptiness and Emptiness=Form... (Yes I replaced void with emptiness...) Then we can understand that the true nature of all things is emptiness.. or emptiness gives rise to the Ten Thousand things because it is those things. I look at all things as light, like the rainbow reflection of the sun through glass it creates images but it is empty. The Buddha talks about it like this in The Lankavatara Sutra http://buddhasutra.com/files/lankavatara_sutra.htm Forgive me for the length but I thought this was some good stuff

Forgive me.. it wouldn't let me post it here...

John 10:23–38 23 Jesus was walking in the temple, hin the colonnade of Solomon. 24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are ithe Christ, jtell us plainly.” 25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. kThe works that I do lin my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27 nMy sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will [pluck] them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,1 is greater than all, and no one is able to [pluck] them out of tthe Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 vThe Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be abroken— 36 do you say of him whom bthe Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 eIf I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me; 38 but if I do them, feven though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that gthe Father is in me and I am in the Father. http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jn%2010.23-38 I also like how Saint Symeon talks about being a God. Let no one deceive you! God is light (11) and to those who have entered into union with Him He imparts of His own brightness to the extent that they have been purified. When the lamp of the soul, that is the mind, has been kindled, then it knows that a divine fire has taken hold of it and inflamed it. How great a marvel! Man is united to God spiritually and physically, since the soul is not separated from the mind, neither the body from the soul… It is evident that just as the Father abides in His own Son (12) and the Son in His Father’s bosom (13) by nature, so those who have been born anew through the divine Spirit (14) and by His gift have become the brothers of Christ our God and sons of God and gods by adoption, by grace abide in God and God in them (15).” St Symeon The New Theologian And Messalianism Any thoughts? .

Sounds like Bodhichitta to me. Also, just for clarification.. I am not aspiring to be a God. All the best to you.

AYP has a lot of positives and some negatives. As a place to start to learn the importance of a system and to get some nice knowledge on a lot of issues AYP is great. I think mantra meditation is very good starting off and speeding someone along but over time I do think it is limited. Spinal Breathing Pranayama, I think something is wrong with it. Many people have mentioned how it is not a properly grounded technique. I would agree with them. Others have mentioned how one should not even do pranayama like is taught at AYP unless under supervision. Samyama I think is very good technique for teaching someone how to let go of a thought. With all that being said. I did it for about 1.5 yrs. I had some great results, overloaded a lot and have since moved on.

All I can say is that is what it feels like. He does an excellent job of describing it to be honest. Now everyone's experience is a little different some experience other aspects not described by Symeon. Just one of those things that has to be experienced and once experienced there is now doubt. I respect your views on the issue. All the best, Tom

Hi Bindi, By Jesus and Symeon saying you are a God they are discrediting the belief that Jesus was the only Son of God and that there is only One God. It is just like saying we all have the potential to be Buddha's or that we are already in the truest sense. In Truth Symeon is talking about what I have called Merging with Divine Beings. . Here is an excellent description of talking about merging up to ones depth or "to the extent that they have been purified." . I would think that on a site where people experience amazing things on a daily basis.. it would be far from discredited as false mysticism. Instead it is an example of the truth and what is possible if one looks within. dawei is talking about his experience with Gaia here. http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/41078-the-goddessmother-earthgaia/ “He who said, ‘Let there be light’ and immediately there was What then do you think, if He shines spiritually in a heart Or in a mind as a bright flash of light or as a great sun What is He not able to accomplish in a soul, completely Immersed in the light? Will He not illumine this soul And make it experience Himself in an accurate knowledge Of Who He really is? Yes, this is really what so happens.” St Symeon The New Theologian And Messalianism http://www.orthodoxnet.com/orthodoxy/papers/Kotsonis_Saint_Symeon_Messalianism_2.doc All the best. .

Maybe Here is some more: “We become members of Christ - and Christ becomes our members, Christ becomes my hand, Christ my miserable foot; And I, unhappy one, am Christ’s hand, Christ’s foot! …Living with God at the same time, we shall become gods, …Made completely like Christ in our whole body” St. Symeon. Symeon The New Theologian “By what boundless mercy, my Savior, have you allowed me to become a member of your body? Me, the unclean, the defiled, the prodigal. How is it that you have clothed me in the brilliant garment, radiant with the splendor of immortality, that turns all my members into light? Your body, immaculate and divine, is all radiant with the fire of your divinity, with which it is ineffably joined and combined. This is the gift you have given me, my God: that this mortal and shabby frame has become one with your immaculate body and that my blood has mingled with your blood.” (8) “I thank you that you have become one spirit with me, without confusion, without mutation, without transformation, you the God of all; and that you have become everything for me, inexpressible and perfectly gratuitous nourishment, which ever flows to the lips of my soul and gushes out into the fountain of my heart, dazzling garment which burns the demons, purification which bathes me with these imperishable and holy tears, that your presence brings to those whom you visit. I give you thanks that for me you have become unsetting light and non-declining sun…” (9) 8. Johannes Koder: Hymnes; Vol 156 (1-15), 1969; Vol 174 (16-40), 1971; Vol 196 (41-58), 1973 9. Saint Symeon the New Theologian And Orthodox Tradition, by Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev, Oxford University Press 2000 As we ascend to that which is more perfect, He who is without form or shape comes no longer without form or without shape. Nor does He cause His light to come to us and be present with us in silence. But how? He comes in a definite form indeed, though it is a divine one. Yet God does not show Himself in a particular pattern or likeness, but in simplicity, and takes the form of an incomprehensible, inaccessible, and formless light. We cannot possibly say or express more than this; still He appears clearly and is consciously known and clearly seen, though He is invisible. He sees and hears invisibly and, just as friend speaks to friend face to face (cf. Ex. 33:11), so He who by nature is God speaks to those whom by grace He has begotten as gods. He loves like a father, and in turn He is fervently loved by His sons. Quote n° 3433 : Saint Symeon the New Theologian , (949 - 1022), Christianity, Orthodoxy Source : The Discourses, p. 365, Trans. C.J. de Catanzaro. Ramsey, N.J.: Paulist Press, 1980.

I think it depends. In Buddhism there are Gods, Bodhisattvas,, Buddhas and a whole host of beings. I found this interesting

Hi Roger, I agree with what you are saying. Everyone believes in what makes since to them so how can anyone know? That is why I added the post by Saint Symeon. Eventually one gets to a depth where it isn't about philosophy but about being, becoming one with. I believe Saint Symeon knew. I believe Neem Karoli Baba knew as well when he said to meditate like Jesus. It is about being one with the father that is within and without. Not thinking and finding the truth in thoughts. Just my take.

I agree that he is admonishing the priests. He did that a lot. He is also to me saying we can all be Gods/Buddhas. Just something to think about. If this was a Buddhist master saying look at the miracles done through me by the light. By the surrender to the guru. I am just showing you what is possible for everyone when they have realized the Dao.

Here is a copy and paste from a post I wrote about thoughts, emptiness and Atman. Confusion arises because people make statements that thoughts, emotions and sensations are not us. They come and go but are not us. I know I have said that many times myself and in a way it is true but not really The first stage most people are taught is the Witness/Mindfulness. That there is separation between us and our thoughts, that they are fleeting unless we cling to them just like you said. In Dzogchen they use the term Rigpa and say that we are all those thoughts, sensations and emotions and call this movement. It is all energy/light. So first we get to the point of separation from our thoughts. It is like we can see them float on by, they no longer attach to us and we find freedom. With increased depth the thoughts become less and less and the silence grows from within. We feel the movement of the thoughts within the silence. We know this because it is like the waves hitting the beach. We experience it like the waves coming in and then we are back to being lost in thoughts as the waves reside. Over time just like the tide the water gets deeper and deeper until we are that movement, until we are that silence. Now outside of our thinking we also have this body. Within the body, when people start to work with energy practices/pranayama techniques they first will notice a little energy within them. Over time this energy increases in depth and people start to feel energy hitting upon obstructions and that is when it becomes ecstatic. With still more depth one will notice that there body is energy. That the body is no different than our thoughts which is energy/light. So our thoughts, emotions, sensations and our body are all energy/light. Just like a cloud each has form but in truth it is empty. It's true nature just like light or as science has shown atoms to be is emptiness. The belief in an Atman, a soul according to Buddhism is not possible because a soul is a "thing" that "exists". In Buddhism the true nature of all things is emptiness. Because of that there is no soul that is made up of things residing in some place. So who or what are we then? Often when people first experience the light they are blinded by it. It is bright and it is all they can see. With increased depth you start to notice that the light is made up of individual streams of light. In Buddhism these are called Mind Streams. A post was made in a thread asking if all Buddhas are the same. I think this will help explain some things. Do Buddha now all have different individual personalities? I was always taught that there is no difference between Buddha's and the only reason they have individual names is because we gave them different names to distinguish one Buddha manifestation from another, but to view them as different "Buddha's" is to create a duality in Enlightenment. There are no differences between one Buddha and another in terms of realization; there are differences in terms of aspirations, and so on., which give rise to differences in sentient beings karmic connections with this buddhafield and that, and so on. In short, everyone who becomes a Buddha starts out as a sentient being, and there is a unique rosary of clarity that continues from the time of being a sentient being through the attainment of Vajradhara which forms the relative basis for Buddhahood. Loppon Malcom So we are each these mind streams that are made up of light that's true nature is emptiness. Each mind stream has unique karmic connections that the light hits upon that gives us our individuality. I hope this helps, Tom Quote Edit Options

When working with certain energy practices one can do to much. The energy hits on emotional issues and can bring up some serious emotional upsets that you can have trouble letting go of. Also, energy practices have been known to give one an internal sunburn if done for too long or if you are not ready for them. AYP doesn't have a lot of fans here but it does a great job of talking about "overloading" if you would like further research.

I believe they are one and the same. Void=form is the same as saying the Dao is the mother of the Ten Thousand Things.

I see a very advanced guy/Buddha telling people how to achieve oneness and the light/rainbow/vajra body using the words of his culture. I would encourage you to read The Gospel of Thomas. I have found many similarities to the teachings of Hinduism, Daoism and Buddhism. All the best, Tom

Would that be where void=form and form=void comes into play 3bob? Void and form/light could seem dualistic until one realizes they are one and the same. Like Jesus said in GOT: 3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty." .

“Let no one deceive you! God is light (11) and to those who have entered into union with Him He imparts of His own brightness to the extent that they have been purified. When the lamp of the soul, that is the mind, has been kindled, then it knows that a divine fire has taken hold of it and inflamed it. How great a marvel! Man is united to God spiritually and physically, since the soul is not separated from the mind, neither the body from the soul… It is evident that just as the Father abides in His own Son (12) and the Son in His Father’s bosom (13) by nature, so those who have been born anew through the divine Spirit (14) and by His gift have become the brothers of Christ our God and sons of God and gods by adoption, by grace abide in God and God in them (15).” St Symeon The New Theologian And Messalianism .

Hi Veezel, I believe the term is in reference to being in the present moment. A child doesn't dwell in the past nor is the child lost in daydreams of the future. If startled by an upset it is able to let it go and return to the present. So be like a child and learn to let go and be in the present moment. All the best, Tom

When I think of inner nature I think of the Buddhist concept of universal mind. Here is an excellent sutra explaining this. Lankavatara Sutra http://zen-ua.org/wp-content/uploads/lankavatara_sutra_english.pdf

Hi Orion, I think you already nailed it. Squats don't just work the legs they work the entire body. Deadlifts are the same way, they work the back ,legs, core and put a lot of stress over the entire body. Other leg excercise tend to be more isolated in nature. This is really one of the best articles on lifting I have ever read. Fuckarounditis http://www.leangains.com/2011/09/fuckarounditis.html?m=1

I would say you are going to over train. The peak for muscle growth is every 48hrs. Squats are a great exercise but it also puts a lots of stress on the CNS. That is a positive and why squats are recommended because it works more than just the legs. Yet, working your legs with squats so often seems a bit extreme and can put to much stress on your CNS. I know professional bodybuilders who use this program. I have really liked it and found amazing results. HST is based on the science of how muscles grow. http://www.hypertrophyspecific.com/hst_index.html If you don't like that then you should study up on Mike Mentzer and Arthur Jones. Two people who really started the training to failure and the science behind that. Even with this type of method it is get in, get out, do a warm up, hit failure and done. Another option that I like along with the diet is lean gains. Here is a great article on lifting. http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Training All the best, Tom

While not a translation it is a supposed guru explaining the TTC.

I am a huge fan of Michael Brown and TPP. After going through TPP I felt like I really grew spiritually. Through the process I had my first waking visual. I felt energy flowing through me and my body as ecstatic energy. It was also after finishing TPP that I experienced The Witness for the first time. I will say that TPP is not easy. I would recommend you do it chapter by chapter and have a group in this thread to talk to, who is also going through it. It was the first time I had really worked with the emotions, with the energy of emotions instead of always trying to suppress them and it scared me to death. This is not easy but it is so worth it. The lessons I still use today and are extremely valuable. Here is a link to a thread at AYP that I started about TPP where many others have shared there experience going through it. http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13230&SearchTerms=process If you are reading this thread and want to get an idea of what TPP is like. Here is one of his writings that I share often with valuable lessons on how to integrate emotional upsets. http://www.thepresenceprocessportal.com/resources/Landing%20Out%20Of%20The%20Mental%20Plane.htm All the best, Tom