Jonesboy

Thank you for the advise.

Hi Bindi, I find your quote very interesting. The Gospel of Thomas is accepted as the oldest teachings of Jesus. It has been acknowledged as the original teachings and is much older than the writings of Paul. So your response was this. So the argument is to say that Paul, who never met Jesus and sent a letter "Galatians" is now the source for GOT? If anything it would seem that Christian teaching is a re-interpretation of Gnostic teachings as that quote shows.

That is very correct Bindi. The goal is non-attachment. If you are a attached, need or desire a thing in order to be happy you are barking up the wrong tree. It means you have work to do. I am not attached to it. Just saying it is a level of non-attachment many of us have achieved. I use it to help people and only to help people.

That is what I am calling merging. You become one. The difference being that we don't use offering or use visualization. Thank you for that.

We find truths in all of them or haven't you been paying attention?

Please show me a reference in physiology where it references merging? Then show me how it is even close to vajrayana deity practice.

I see a lot of value in it. You can see why I hope.

Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche explains the importance of the yidam: When we consider all the great masters of the Indian and Tibetan traditions, we find that in every case, their accomplishment came about through their practice of a yidam. They chose a deity and guarded that practice like their very life force, and on the basis of that complete commitment to the path of deity yoga, they practised the stage of generation, the stage of completion, and integrated these arriving at their final realisation of complete accomplishment and enlightenment. But nowadays there are people who say, “Oh, what a lot of bother! Deities and mantra, I hate all that. I’m just going to meditate.” And they sit there, and close their eyes, and that’s what they call practice. They say, “I just want to do effortless meditation.” But as Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche said, “Although there are people like that, I’ve not seen them gaining any sign of attainment.” In one of the texts of Ratna Lingpa’s cycle of Vajrakilaya practice, there is a passage which recounts how on one occasion Yeshe Tsogyal asked Guru Rinpoche about the nature of kyérim practice. “Do we really need a yidam deity?”, she questioned. Guru Rinpoche replied, “If there is no yidam, where is the source of siddhis? Without siddhi, how could there be enlightenment?” In fact, if we look at the great masters of the Indian and Tibetan traditions of Vajrayana practice, we find there is no-one who did not meditate upon a yidam deity. http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Yidam

And yet Bindi I and others are able to do the following: Yoga Sutras of Patanjali: http://www.swamij.com/yoga-sutras-33949.htm 3.39 By loosening or letting go of the causes of bondage and attachment, and by following the knowledge of how to go forth into the passages of the mind, there comes the ability to enter into another body. (bandha karana shaithilyat prachara samvedanat cha chittasya para sharira aveshah) [Note: In some renditions this is sutra 3.37 or 3.38] bandha = bondage, attachment karana = cause shaithilyat = relaxation, letting go, loosening prachara = passages, means of going forth, moving through samvedanat = by knowledge of cha = and chittasya = of the consciousness of the mind-field para = another, other sharira = body aveshah = entering into Entering another body: By loosening or letting go of the causes of bondage and attachment, and by following the knowledge of how to go forth into the passages of the mind, there comes the ability to enter into another body. The advanced yogi may use this power to operate through another body in service of others, such as for guiding sincere students of meditation. Because I know there is no difference between you and I. I know there is no seperation between me and a diety like Jesus or chenzirig for example. Because I know there is no seperation between me and you and Jesus I am able to merge others to Divine beings. Jeff, me and other's do this daily. We have demonstrated this here and at our site. Is it beneficial? The following is respectfully quoted from “Dakini Teachings” by Padmasambhava as translated by Erik Pema Kunsang: Lady Tsogyal asked the master: If a master himself has not been conferred empowerments and he gives them to others, will they receive empowerments or not? The master replied: Although you may be appointed by a charlatan to the rank of minister thus entrusted with power, you will only meet with misfortune. Likewise, although you may have an empowerment conferred upon you by a master who himself has not received it, your mind will be ruined. Moreover you will destroy the minds of others and go to the lower realms like cattle yoked together falling into an abyss. Carried away within an iron box with no exits, you will be sent to the bottom of hell. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Isn’t the offering of a gift when receiving empowerment just something you yourself have invented? The master replied: All the teachings and tantras explain that at this present time when you have obtained the fortune of a human body after being on errant paths for innumerable aeons, you should, free from the three spheres of concepts, offer your body, life, and spouse to the master who shows the path of unexcelled enlightenment. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: How severe is the misdeed of breaking the master’s command? The master replied: The misdeeds of the three levels of existence do not match even a fraction of the evil of breaking the command of your master. Through this you will take rebirth in the Unceasing Vajra Hell and find no liberation. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: How should we regard the master possessing the oral instructions from whom we request teachings? The master replied in verse: You should know that the master is more important Than the buddhas of a hundred thousand aeons, Because all the buddhas of the aeons Appeared through following masters. There will never be any buddhas Who have not followed a master. The master is the Buddha, the master is the Dharma. Likewise the master is also the Sangha. He is the embodiment of all buddhas. He is the nature of Vajradhara. He is the root of the Three Jewels. Keep the command of your vajra master Without breaking even a fraction of his words. If you break the command of your vajra master, You will fall into Unceasing Vajra Hell From which there will be no chance for liberation. By serving your master you will receive the blessings. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Which is more important, the master or the yidam deity? The master replied: Do not regard the master and the yidam as different, because it is the master who introduces the yidam to you. By always venerating the master at the crown of your head you will be blessed and your obstacles will be cleared away. If you regard the master and yidam as being different in quality or importance you are holding misconceptions. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Why is it important to practice the yidam deity? The master replied: It is essential to practice a yidam deity because through that you will attain siddhis, your obstacles will be removed, you will obtain powers, receive blessings, and give rise to realization. Since all qualities result from practicing the yidam deity, then without the yidam deity you will just be an ordinary person. By practicing the yidam deity you attain the siddhis, so the yidam deity is essential. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: When practicing a yidam deity, how should we meditate and practice in order to attain accomplishment? The master replied: Since means and knowledge are to practice the spontaneously present body, speech and mind through the method of yoga sadhana, they will be accomplished no matter how you carry out the sadhana aspects endowed with body, speech, and mind. They will be accomplished when the sadhana and the recitation are practiced in a sufficient amount. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: How should we approach the sugata yidam deity? The master replied: Realize that you and the yidam deity are not two and that there is no yidam deity apart from yourself. You approach the yidam deity when you realize that your nature is the state of nonarising dharmakaya. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Which yidam deity is better to practice, a peaceful or wrathful one? The master replied: Since means and knowledge are practicing the spontaneously present body, speech, and mind through the method of yoga sadhana, all the countless sugatas, peaceful and wrathful, chief figures and retinues, manifest in accordance with those to be tamed in whatever way is necessary–as peaceful and wrathful, chief figures and retinues. But as they are all one taste in the state of dharmakaya, each person can practice whichever yidam he feels inclined toward. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: If we practice one yidam deity, will that be the same as practicing all sugatas? The master replied: The body, speech, and mind of all deities are manifested by the three mayas in accordance with the perception of those to be tamed. In fact, no matter how they appear, if you practice one you will be practicing them all. If you accomplish one you will have accomplished them all. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Is there any fault in practicing one yidam deity and then practicing another? The master replied: Although the sugatas manifest as various kinds of families and forms, out of skillful means to tame beings, they are in actuality inseparable, the state of equality. If you were able to practice all the buddhas with this realization of their inseparability, your merit would be most eminent. But if you were to do so while regarding the yidam deities as having different qualities which should be either accepted or rejected, you would be immeasurably obscured. It is inappropriate to regard the yidams as good or bad, and to accept or reject them. If you do not regard them like that, it will be excellent no matter how you practice. Lady Tsogyal asked the master: Through performing the approach to one tathagata, will we accomplish the mind of all sugatas? The master replied: By practicing with a vast view and remaining in the nature, you will attain stability in a yidam deity. When you complete the recitation, you will accomplish the activities of all the victorious ones without exception by simply commencing them. Lady Tsogyal asked the Master: If one’s view is high, is it permissible to dispense with the yidam deity? The master replied: If you attain confidence in the correct view then that itself is the yidam deity. Do not regard the yidam deity as a form body. Once you realize the nature of dharmakaya you will have accomplished the yidam deity http://www.tibetanbuddhistaltar.org/the-vajra-master-from-dakini-teachings-by-padmasambhava/

Hi Bindi, It is always different and sight isn't what matters. An example for you: A very advanced friend of mine and I were talking and he asked me to take a look at him. He looked like a robed figure from Assassins Greed and in his right hand was a bar of light. He reach out to give me the light and the next thing I know I am him standing on a window ledge overlooking a city. I am standing amazed at what this is and then I notice thoughts but they are not my thoughts. I come out of that vision and my mind is blown with the silence. My entire body is feeling the energy. I now think of a friend and I become that person. Seeing what they are seeing. I walk outside and I feel like as I walk I am one with everything around me. That feeling as strong as it was for me lasted for that day but it started a process or you could say it helped to speed up the clearing away of the dust. My description is not doing the experience justice. A true light transmission feels like lightning is going through you. It is a very powerful blessing. Now Bindi let me ask you this. How important in all this was my buddy who I saw as a game character? Ps. My friend was In a tall building sitting by the window overlooking a large city. This was a very powerful transmission. A normal transmission you may see a beach or mountains or people or places or anything to be honest. You begin to realize how your depth or even the person you are working withs depth can affect ones sight. As one progresses you also notice your sight getting less and less as I have said before and so forth. I hope that helps, Tom

I was saying that I learned that what I saw for chakras was inaccurate compared to knowing. I said I use knowing and I am not saying I am an expert on that either. One way of looking at this is about surrender to the Father. With complete surrender and trust in the father one does not need sight to have faith. One does not need sight to put God first. Remember Bindi. I am working at sweeping away the dust that keeps me separate from that which is. We could say the Father if that makes you happy. I am not trying to build upon things like a mountain toreach him. Instead I am trying to clear away the things that keep me separated from him. I have said I don't see those things and that I don't play in the astral. That means that I am more heart based than sight based is all. I do see things, I just don't rely on it for my knowledge.

Unicorns and playgrounds and auras are all the same thing. You are using the same method to see all of it. Nope, I don't see auras or chakras or what is inside of a person. I have told you that already. It holds you back in the way that you think you need it. That you desire it like you desire ecstatic energy or whatever you may want. As you progress you will notice how what you see will change over time as you progress. The fact that it has changed shows how your sight is influenced and unreliable. At your current depth it will seem completely accurate which is the danger.

Hi Bindi, That is 3rd eye sight that I am talking about. It is not fantasy or illusion. It is what people are seeing with there sight. Do you consider Aura's or chakras an illusion? If they were to see wings and then see an entity the next moment were they both illusions? It is all self arising remember. The reason no tradition talks about the astral is because it encourages separation. Lucid dreaming teaches you that your reality is self arising. With in dreams you can change your reality to be whatever you want. You can fly around on bbq wings if you wish. As with the people who see wings on their backs. Ones sight is influenced by ones depth and clarity. They will tell you it is as real as the shoes on your feet and damn you for trying to tell them stuff you have no idea about. Light workers have wings. Some have two, some have four and size does matter. It is what they see because it is self arising and influenced by there depth and clarity. I know of no other way of getting this point across. All of my chakras are open. Being partial or fully opened doesn't really matter. The clearing of the chakras are never really done. There is always more depth one can achieve.

Hi 3Bob, When you merge into that which is. Which one are you then?

Many times I have shown that ones depth and clarity can effect what one perceives. The first thing that will occur is sight and we see tons of that. I would encourage everyone to look at the spirituality forums. You will see people who are light workers and they have wings (size matters with wings). You will find people who are unicorns. You will find a lot of things and playgrounds that people get lost in because of sight. In everyday life we all know a group of people can all see the same thing happen but each will describe it in different ways. They will see it differently. The courts are very familiar with this. The spiritual path to me is one of letting go. Letting go of attachments. Sight is an attachment. I am not the only one to have experienced this. As one progresses sight becomes less and less. Knowing and feeling becomes more and more. As you progress and become more and more one with things so to is the knowing. If I am one with the tree I am not seeing the tree because I am the tree. Knowing is the true goal, not seeing. If you are seeing it is separation and you are not that.

Hi CT, Thank you very much for the information about those practices. I have never looked into them so that was very informative. I must have said something wrong. I was not trying to compare any practice that I do to any particular Dzogchen practice. I was more giving respect to the Dzogchen view on things.

Hi Jetsun, One day I was surfing the web and the next thing I know I found my guru. It is all done by the grace of the guru. Maybe to make everyone happy I will just call him my friend As far as any specific tradition. I have found some traditions do talk about it but that is it. It is very hard to find real good information about the light body and what it is like within any tradition. Personally I have found Dzogchen to be accurate as to the spiritual development one will experience. I would not associate achieving the light body with "awakening" if awakening is the big enlightenment. Some would say that The Witness is an awakening so I am not sure of the term being used. With that being said. I did not experience Rigpa and all that on day one of going light. If I remember correctly the first thing I noticed going light was that energy was flowing through me all day long. I could feel the obstructions within me and feel them being removed. I could feel when someone was looking at me and I could send energy to people. I could quite a mind or do shaktipat. Most of all right from the start, emotions and issues were easier to let go of. It was like the light that was shining through me now and I was able to help me let go of my emotional upsets. That is my experience. I know others who have experienced oneness, emptiness can feel others emotions and a whole bunch of things upon going light. The going light and awakening is a tough question. You can see that I didn't have the big one that everyone talks about when I went light. I was also still next to the guru. Still being pulled along. I have been told that if you were to go out on your own after going light. One would stabilize and be the classic enlightened dude. So yes and no...

I never said I don't have visions. I said I don't depend on sight. For instance.. I can try to see how many chakras you have open.. but knowing which is beyond seeing is better and more reliable.

I really don't know about the Great Rainbow Body. Yes I have opened all 7 chakras. I know of quite a few people who have achieved the light body. Forgive me for not going into detail. Many of the things that Jeff has demonstrated in Chat I and others are also able to do. I have also assisted people in many of the same ways in chat here and at LU. I have said before, I am always willing to share presence and help where I can.

From my understanding the Rainbow body is what one achieves at death. Not dead so I am not working on it No I don't do Dzogchen trekchö and thögal. I don't do any of those type of energy practices anymore. Yes Bindi, That is what Jeff and I have been talking about for awhile now. Once you open the main 7 up they unify and create the light body. Every single person who has achieved this that I know of. Experiences this as a mental and physiological experience. Every single person has also developed siddhis from becoming light. Which is why I say that if you think you have achieved light but are still stuck in the local mind and unable to help send energy to others. Well.. you tell me.

Sorry for the confusion on the embryo and the body. I get nothing golden.. People who can see in the astral might see a golden body. I don't see anyone with any type of aura or body around them No I am not saying I have 6 chakras open. I was saying that most people who say they have achieved the "Golden Body" that I know of are seeing astral and have not achieved a real light body. I am doing well Bindi. Thank you for asking.

Here you go. None of this is really fast but the methods do work and they are powerful. http://thedaobums.com/topic/39271-practical-ways-to-let-go-of-attachment/?p=646786 Hope this helps, Tom

Hi Ti, I would disagree on that most schools have a path to the rainbow body. Most schools laugh at the idea. None of these paths lead to a rainbow body... None of these schools even hint at such a thing. Again it is because their are many different paths. Some lead to cessation others to an Arhat, and others to immortals and so forth. Now TI, I know where you got that post from. I am just not sure that in yoga the Anandamaya kosha is the same thing as the Vajra body. All the best, Tom

Hi Bindi, No I can't. I have never ran across the term Golden Body in my research of any tradition. I have seen people who are very visual, they have the 3rd eye open. That talk about the Golden Body. I know people who will tell me they have the Golden Body and 12/13 chakra's opened. They can travel through time and all sorts of fun stuff. I get them with 6 chakra's open. Every bit of it and they will admit it is astral what they are doing. Now they still believe they are very advanced and really have achieved those heights. It is about how we spend our daily life. They don't talk about silence or oneness. They have no clue about emptiness or any of the things that really matter. That has been the extent of my research into the Golden Body and what I have found so far. That would include your paper on Merging with Shiva. The term Golden is because that is what people will "SEE". If a person has achieved the Golden/light body one would be able to feel there presence in a very strong way that is beyond seeing. The person would be able to do things outside of the astral as well.