Fate

Yes I've noticed it, you can talk around the Tao for ages and divide something an infinite number of times and label all the things. I also notice all the people that just practice, just do, and don't post. But you can't see them if you're looking with your eyes or mind. There will always exist all the variants, just ignore the noise.

"Do your work, and let go"

I am unable to edit on my phone and wanted to clarify that the journeying technique I use is sonic driving with drumming and Michael Harner's books. I've had powerful enough experiences with just marijuana and hash oil, and all this has come naturally without any need to seek out plant use. Thank you for the timely response. Foundation a good emphasis and the car metaphor is beautiful (having experienced trying to go 200 mph without any preparation)

@Jdn: interesting, I wonder if their approach is to master or to see their part in the greater whole? Or to go beyond ego and see that there is no "me" that masters, only complete harmony. When in harmony one gets to a play a part sometimes metaphysically over the universe

Very helpful thread, always something learned and many things in the back pocket. I'm wondering what you think of Shamanic practices Spotless and how this fits into the Rabbit and Turtle ways? For cultivation I like to think Stillness-Movement is a turtle path, awareness on LDT and move into stillness for spotatenous movement. But I also use Shamanic work as a means for doing the "inner work" of going through my unconscious, retrieving parts of my soul, power animals that help understand patterns in my life. But from your posts it seems like this is mostly trance work, which is a shortcut stuff to siddhis? Yet I also understand the value of my individual path and journeying being one of those "outside" things like a partner that make it unique. Was just curious as to how it fits in with non-doing

Deserving of a bump. Now the question arises of why one can never seem to get others to stop, and has to watch life stop them (or try). More and more I find that you can slow down in other's precence and possibly it is infectious, but this is just a hope at this point.

When you stare at the Moon, the Moon also stares into you

I was talking about a book that helped me and I felt an energetic download from, called "Discovering your Psychic type" that helped me a lot after awakening to the spiritual dimension You seem very advanced though, and you've already found a teacher. The cosmic joke should make everything sail.... Well somethings are easier and some harder still

Had a novice Zen priest explain the first precept as "Aversion to Change" which I like quite a bit deal more than "life is suffering" because the latter seems very contrary to Daoist thought and the former is quite in line with it. I've stopped trying to draw lines between the two schools, I think the advice of work with what's closest to you is probably sound. I gravitated more toward Daoism because the DDJ sort of fell into my lap when I was younger, it wasn't something I sought out, so I figured there's a connection going on there. From what I've seen and has been mentioned Daoist methods emphasize Physical+Energy body cultivation whereas the majority of Buddhist schools I've seen are purely working on the mind/spirit level. Tibetan and other esoteric schools undoubtedly get into Energy body stuff as well.

So I've recently come to discover that due to cosmic rotations, all of our astrology is completely out of date. So we're not in Leo, and the New Age isn't Aquarius it is actually Capricorn? I'm here to get a larger opinion base, it doesn't seem like something so clear and precise could be based on falsehoods. I've refrained from sharing this discovery with my friends who still use their horoscopes and star charts to understand and map their lives, but that's more because I want to understand what's going on below the surface. I know my sign-Cancer had a lot of truths that resonated with me, especially as a contrast to my brother's sign Leo. Our 'planets' were the Moon and Sun respectively, and it is just a perfect representation of our dynamic and respective personas. Very interested in what long-term esoteric practitioners have to say about this

so you plead not guilty and walked away?

Bumped because this is just awesome

Everything is interconnected so, of course. "To the Sage, every moment brings enlightenment" -TTJ

I'm surprised no one has mentioned dynamic meditation yet. No one said meditation had to be sitting quietly in Zazen, this is a very Yin form of meditation that allows you to deepen into stillness. I personally went this route and for about 6 months was building from 5 minutes to 20 to sometimes doing an hour (when I cheat and use music). I don't know if the foundation I built with this contributed, but when I shifted to doing Chi Kung and Taiji, I found myself being much more relaxed and my mind being calmer (I then incorporated sitting meditation after these practices for greater results). Other options are Yoga, Sufi dancing, etc. All of this thought comes from Osho and he has a few guided dynamic meditations described for free on his foundation's website. There are as many people as stars in the sky, so there will be as many methods too. Open your mind to what meditation really is. If you're just trying to build mindfulness or relax the mind, then there are plenty of options available (here's a hint on the path: Eventually everything you do becomes a meditation).

Last time I had entered the world of Qi Gong and TCM, I eventually strayed from this path for something as simple as how they categorize the elemental forces in this world. For me, I felt like I had some sort of mission to "remind the world of wind" because we lived in a world that was full of "metal" energy, money, structure, etc. Now I've come to realize that Wood in Wu Xing is about the same as Air, so I've made my peace with that. Still, can Metal be equated to Aryuvedic/Tibetan Buddhist equivalent of Void/Sky/Ether? I'm all about synthesizing systems for their core truths, but I just haven't been able to work the parallels of these two Elemental Systems. Are they talking about completely different level of energetics? There's definite link between Chakras and Meridians, so I'm hoping the Elements can be linked as well.

I like what you said about workers and professionals. Have you heard of the light workers community? Understanding your gifts and psychic type will go a long way to walking a path where you don't feel energy is being wasted

I'm glad you survived your experience and did not let the fears and labels of others diminish the beauty of the process.

One of my instructor is an excellent practitioner, but he was trained in Structural Integration. It is just a different school of the Rolfing technique really. He continues to be an amazing role model for me, and really goes in depth with his approach. He was able to do "posture readings" of people where he could tell a lot, and I mean A LOT about their history/spiritual blockages in life just from the way they held their bodies. Fascia work is a very effective bodywork, and is conducive to people who need something to "focus on" while being worked, as there is plenty of feeling and it can be pretty intense. I'd only recommend it if you are able to successfully calm your mind, and have masted relaxing your muscles. This is from my own background in training as a Trager practitioner, where muscle tension and "holding patterns" are all held in the mind. So the unconscious mind is what is targeted to break up those patterns and reset the gamma neurons that hold your tension when you are not consciously using a muscle. Another thing to note from my work is that I've found people actually would benefit from stepping outside their comfort zone. I.e. I think my friend would highly benefit from Trager, because it would help her "let go" and sink into the feeling of her body rather than giving her intense sensations to focus on. Likewise I have sought out an intense form of bodywork so that I can work on increasing my presence in the moment, and be able to breathe more fully in the now to reduce the "pain" to sensations. Even though I much rather receive a Trager session and just veg out for 75 minutes... So if you don't mind giving me more information on where you're at and what you're seeking, I can better serve your needs here. "objectively" speaking Rolfing and other bodywork dealing with fascia need to be approached with an open mind to allow real shifts to occur.

Hello, that does clear some things up. Puts it into better terms what was floating around my mind, the idea of energetic patterns in one's life etc.

That's a fine interpretation, but what happens when people see the same energies/phenomenon? Mass hallucination?

I practice Shamanism and also actually have a book called "The Druid Shaman" by Danu Forest, since there is so much crossover. I will echo the sentiments here though, through my studies I have learned you definitely do not want to 'claim' to be a Shaman. There was one South American man who said you'd have to be crazy to call yourself a shaman, he was simply one who 'worked with spirits.' From my understanding, a shaman is "chosen" by the spirits, and I've heard that the two paths are either extreme physical illness (usually very close to death) or the 'path of madness' which can last up to 7 years I've heard. This is one way of initiation. Another is that you do your shamanic practice, and enough people have benefited from your work that THEY call you shaman, so you sort of "earn your role" in the village sort to speak. Its awesome the experience you've hard with spirit animals. What I've learned about Fox medicine though is that Fox prefers to work from behind the scenes! Sort of like a ninja, it is better if people don't know Fox is your spirit because you're trying to hide mask your intention until the time is right. Ted Andrews wrote a great book that goes in depth on working with spirit allies (not so much plants). I'd pick up "Way of the Shaman" by Michael Harner and check out all the articles on Shamanism.org. They describe it as the 'path of spiritual freedom' so it really is beyond calling it 'druidry' or 'paganism' and trying to get a handle on it. You simply work like a scientist, going off your experience in the Spirit world and with your guides. What I do know that is distinct about shamanism is that it usually is a path described as Healer or Sage. There isn't much to do with acquiring personal power, the spirits are the power, and that sort of sorcery (like the kind Don Juan talked about) is a different spiritual practice.

As a massage therapist I've learned that tendons can be changed/strengthened/repaired over time. As a structure they take a lot longer to heal than muscular issues (which more and more I'm beginning to find is rooted simply in unconscious holding patterns held in the mind) or scar tissue adhesion. So you can affect your tendons through practice. Also through my own dietary change to a plant-based diet I've noticed that my joints are a LOT more flexible and loose. Though I'd say my results are a combination of commitment to lifestyle change in diet, qi gong, etc. That said, if you are experiencing tendinitis there is probably a root cause in muscular issues, for example in the knee join we tend to over our quadricep group (leading to hypertonicity), and have chronic tight hamstrings. This leads to the joint being pulled on by both sides, which leads to inflammation and deterioration of the joint. Do you have/what is your exercise routine? Your Mind-body practice to relax?

Thank you for the thread SotG! I have a feeling I'll be joining your forum sooner rather than later. A few questions, as my background is in Shamanism and working with Nature "Entities." All I've learned is actually journeying to meet them, and asking them if they want to cross back over when I return. Also Michael Harner basically teaches to use "intent" to call in and merge with a power animal, not so formal and 'mapped' as your description here. Curious how the magick you practice has parallels with this practice. Further questions: 1. What are Metal Elementals useful for? 2. As a Shaman with the Elemental map of the world being 'Earth, Air, Water, Fire' do you have experience with Air elementals? Or are they just Wood elementals in your system? I am also familiar with making a 'stance' or mudra for each element, from self-study of the spiritual practices of Ninjas (books by Ross Heaven and Ashida Kim). From this path I've come to realize each finger is associated with one of the five elements... in the Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Void scheme however. Starting from pinky to thumb respectively. Has this rung true at the higher levels? And does it correspond to Wu Xing?

*loads rifle of love* "'Surrender brings perfection' The crooked become straight The empty become full The worn become new" Taoism is filled with paradox, which is why it is so easy to misinterpret and confuse. E.g. through giving up on others, a Sage comes to help all beings. As Nikolai illustrates, its that concept of mutual arising. All this "control" and "mastery over elements" and what not arises with the transcendence of using such things for one's own gain and any control. Buddhists and Taoists really aren't that different. The more I see and learn about other paths, the less difference I see. Its all just so many words... Siddhartha didn't attain enlightenment until he gave up "the very idea of work." The Middle Way is exactly the same as Taoism.