Karl

I do not 'easily call people inhuman' I make the specific argument that they have chosen to act in a wholly irrationally out of a deliberate choice to do so. You have to make the judgement call, none of us are immune. We must judge if a person presents a clear and present danger to our values and in what respect and what opposing force to utilise. That you name someone criminal is a cop out. A criminal in the eyes of the law is someone who breaks an arbitrary speed limit, has homosexual relationships or doesn't pay their taxes. That isn't what ISIS is. They are a direct threat to life. I may be true that your own Government also represents some degree of danger, but then you must judge if that degree of danger is of greater risk than a terrorist organisation prepared to kill themselves and take your life along with theirs. No such dark potential exists unless you choose it Lerner. That you would be prepared to use force in defence of your own life or values is not irrational behaviour. As long as you intend to claim no value by that action except to conserve the values you have honestly and rationally earned. That's why I said, judge and be prepared to be judged. I have no issue determining one from the other, but as I said, it won't be an easy choice for those who regard animals as having rights. I would expect that you would react similarly to irrationally acting human animals.

No different to an irrational human. You won't know they are irrational actors until their actions confirm it. If you went around killing humans because you thought they were irrational, not because their actions confirmed that they were, then you would be acting irrationally.

I don't think you have thought it through. I'm specifying the intentional and voluntary choosing of the suspension of reasoned thought. You do not accept that ISIS hold knives to the throat of innocent, peaceful people ? You believe they are exercising rational thought when they engage in suicide bombing and mass suicides. That it isn't you or your family is fortunate. ISIS are subhuman, they are animals. It isn't a bad habit to regard them as such. Did you excuse those who flew passenger jets into the twin towers. Do you think this was the behaviour of rational humans or irrational animals? These aren't straw man arguments. These are real examples of irrational humans which pose a serious danger to the lives of the innocent. Of course that's only if you regard the West as being more pro life than those that oppose it, you have to accept that you must take a view.

Really. So your values extend to allowing someone who has given up rationality voluntarily to do whatever they want to you and anyone you care for ? Well, you argue well enough when you don't believe a thing, I wonder what happens when what you believe becomes a physical reality intent on snuffing you out ? You don't agree with locking up those who do not respect life ? Or ending the life of those who casually end the lives of others ?

Told you it was a tough. Of course when some psychopath is in your house with a big knife threatening your family, you will preach love and good wishes at them ? Nah, you will fight for your values. You will leave all those thoughts of bliss, peace and sacrifice in the gutter and use whatever you have to hand to bludgeon the attacker to death. You peaceniks are all the same until reality comes calling. It is the total opposite to evil. It is to judge and to be judged. Not to go initiating violence, but to defend against it. To defend life against death.

I'm getting there. Never been very natural with an instrument, but I enjoy the effort of trying to master it.

Trying to learn the terrific 5 minute outro solo on this piece by Camel-Ice

There is a great paragraph in Peikoffs book on Objectivism that says that when man refuses to act rationally from choice, then he has given up responsibility for his actions and hence all his human rights, including freedom and life. As such he can be regarded as nothing more than an animal and not a human being-this is a difficult thing for those who believe that animals have rights to accept-and thus must be dealt with by cage or bullet.

Pretty much how I predict the results. Although, initially something like 80/20 for stay, I suspect it might end up 60/40. Unlike the more optimistic, I have little faith in the mass of people to make the right decision. Most of them buy lottery cards, read horoscopes and believe in socialism. A win for the remain side might well have very unexpected repurcussions for those who are no longer contented to operate within a system which Is repressive collectivism. I think this might be reflected in a similar way in the USA if Clinton gets in. In Britain, the middle earners (of which I was one) are taxed at over 60% when all types of taxes are taken into consideration. It's actually better to earn a lower wage than a middle wage and then get it topped up by the Government. The Government always sides with big crony businesses-many of which have high numbers of low paid on their books-but ignore the small businesses which employ a vast section of the workforce. With the 'living wage', EU red tape and high taxes on the small businessman, it may well make them consider quitting. The result would effectively be that ALL businesses were effectively crony corporations and thus government monopolies in which price setting would be by regulation. That really is just communism. A mass of low paid serfs, stagnant growth, fixed prices and authoritarianism.

I came across Basinski several years ago. I can't listen to much of it as it sounds very melancholy to me. It seems to mirror the decay in the Western world.

Have you heard the disintegration loops by William Basinski ?

And smart uniforms. I'm warming to the idea.

Never a big fan of his music, though I do have SOTT and PR. Lot of talent dying this year. Brings it home. I can remember seeing PR the film at a time we were late teens. We went because we/I thought it was a motorcycle film. I didn't believe he was a serious musician, more a Michael Jackson Parody. He was too 'cool' for my tastes-but my mate wanted to emulate him. Later on I was surprised to find he made good music. 57! Blimey. I lost two mates last year in their early 60s and our Queen of comedy (Vic Woods) has died at 65. Get ye back grim reaper.

Do you get hassled with post card sellers ? Is there a beach ?

LOL :-)

Even if it is physiological it's just part of something that has to be managed.

There you go, you don't really have vertigo. It's hard to argue you have it when you do that. What you have is a general fear of exposure which is very common. My wife struggles to walk over a footbridge if she can see through the boards.

Walls can be fun, but outdoors is better on a natural crag. It's very-excuse the esoteric-grounding to get hands on natural rock and work out the route for hands and feet. Bouldering-how I mean it- is more gymnastics than climbing. Very useful for that parkour training.

I didn't call it nihilistic depression Steve. I called it nihilistic. To wit, the desire for bodily, or intellectual death. Death of the ego in one or both forms. If you believe you are not doing this then let go of the attachment to the idea of it, otherwise set to with rope and tree branch. There is no 'getting to'. What is, is. You can do that, or do another thing. Use meditation as a method of dropping the whirling mind stuff-which includes things like emptiness, clarity and effortlessness. Drop attachment to those things and then see where you are. You are never more than one thought from where you think you should be. It's that one thought that prevents you seeing it.

I recognise no such law :-) What's North Korea like in September ? Edit: new thought. Anyone who invokes Godwin's law is subject to Karl's law, which states anyone who Invokes Godwin's law to win an argument loses the argument.

Have you seen what this mad fucker has done to his own people ? He has sent tanks and artillery to a couple of cities that now look as if they are part of the Syrian war. Then he shot down that Russian plane whilst it is rumoured, his family was exploiting oil via ISIL and supplying arms. There is a fair amount of proof that the Syrian chemical weapon attacks were perpetrated by Turkish funded militia using gas derived from Turkey. Then Merkl is cow towing over the German comedian who is going to be prosecuted for satire. Meanwhile we are being held to ransom over the Syrian refugees. Not to mention the arrest of any Turkish press which opposes him. This is like doing business with Hitler. We have a holiday booked this year and I'm considering cancelling. I don't think we should be spending money in a country ruled by a corrupt dictator.

300 feet up and a lot of chunks of sharp limestone betwixt me and the floor-mats wouldn't help. I used to solo above ground, but only bouldering where the moves were more difficult but the drop was less, or on easier climbs- up to the old severe standard which is still pretty airy. I couldn't do that now without getting back leading. If your Father has the problem I suspect it's learned behaviour which is more difficult than trauma to eradicate-after all it has kept you perfectly safe all these years :-) and your living doesn't depend on standing on high places. Have you ever abseiled ? I'm thinking that you might find somewhere local like a climbing wall, structure, quarry or building to hook up with a few climbers who can get you to start to feel comfortable from the safety of a rope. For the blindfold thing, I was thinking back to the time when there was a cave that I wanted to do, but it was horribly tight. Basically a body sized tube with right angled turns in which a stream if water flowed. It was rated extremely difficult and for pipe cleaner size people only. I knew it would be very claustrophobic as it was next to impossible to reverse out if I got stuck and it went on for 400 yards. I trained for this during a job I was on. It was an underground valve chamber with a network of pipes close to the wall and it was pitch black. I forced myself behind the pipes and turned off the light. Then I imagined myself stuck. After several minutes I began to wonder if I was actually stuck and had to work to control the rising panic. After several longer and longer sessions I was able to confront the cave. I didn't make it, I did get stuck and I did begin to panic, but the training allowed me to overcome it and reverse, painfully-back out.

And good again. :-)

You did well here.

They don't want to do anything, it's more of the same idealism that led to the EU in the first place. Like any form of aquisiton or merger, there are certain protocol that must be followed in order to complete it. Like Boris said, unfortunately there is no one actually responsible, because in such a federation there is no interest in taking responsibility. Instead they leave it up to comittees full of fat arsed bureaucrats that haven't done a days work in their lives. A mini cab with a driver speaking pigeon English with a wonky satnav. To be fair to Eurocrats we can't really pretend we are any better. It's why the EU is only of benefit to the US as a potential sop for their foreign policies and as a place to establish a broader corpocracy. If a crisis hits the EU will just fluster and jabber, then hope the US sorts it out for them. It's a corrupt, failing and incompetent. I'm reminded of the pre-war Austrians where it was all about pomp, circumstance and showiness. The EU might well prove to be the very thing it was intended to prevent- especially should Turkey become a member-the catalyst for a Third World War.