Karl

Neither first nor last.

The very action of posting an argument necessitates the use of reason.

Lovely photo. We got fog. I had a hankering to do a bit of AP a few years ago when I bought the Dob, but I could see how easy it would be to end up as a gear head. Got a few blurred pictures of the Orion Nebula, the rings of Saturn and Juipiters moons by sticking the Camera to the eyepiece, but it really needs one of those fancy camera mounts, or a web cam/laptop/image registration software....and the patience of Jove, a tolerance for cold and no need of sleep.

I learned in my days as a therapist that mostly you just work on yourself anyway regardless of the client, but you keep right on if it brings you joy, or whatever :-) Body is in far more need. I'm going to run out of body before I run into wisdom. No good putting the best oil in an engine in which the bearings have already failed.

It's very wacky for an amateur logician. I even tried to convert it into a working syllogism for a bit of fun, but it wouldn't turn into one no matter how much screwing around I did. Peikoff might do it, but not me. You don't seem very joyful, but then I'm not a good judge of Internet mood :-) If you were stuck in one state consistently how would you know what joy was ? Surely you have to have an alternative like sorrow to contrast it with. Sounds very boring. Like a monochrome room or music with one note. What makes you think I have anything to realise ? I take reality as it is, in whatever way it is, in all its unique and marvellous forms. I do not look for greater emotional satisfaction than I already have. I'm contented with whatever comfort I have at whatever time I have it. What will you offer a man who has exactly the right amount of happiness and joy ? It would be nice to have my bodily youth back and my eyesight, but not at the expense of wisdom. Can you offer me that ?

Well I don't intend to do it for very long so maybe that makes it easier to accept that I wouldn't have all these jhanas and siddhis (but then I don't need or want any ) :-) Awareness cant be aware of itself. Meditation without an object. Well just to approach meditation you must already be an object able to perform the action of meditation.

Wacky ;-)

You just used reasoning, to reason that reasoning isn't necessary. See the obvious logical flaw ?

1. An emotion which we label pleasurable 2. Because we are in tune with the universe 3. An experience, either direct perception or a recalled memory, sometimes both. 4. Like music, there must be dynamics. If there was always joy it would be like a monotone frequency.

interesting.

There is nothing beyond reality, but first you must know how to know reality. Knowing how to know is the basis for all occulted knowledge. One who does not know how to know is like an illiterate in a library. He may see the books, he may be as close to touching, or to let his eyes roam over the symbols, but he is unable to extract anything.

Minds eye. Inner vision, altered consciousness. DMT was the drug of choice-chemicals have resonance as does everything else-but mushrooms are the quickest way. I tried to get a Peruvian Shamen to get me the drugs, but he wouldn't. He told me I would be extremely ill having never built up a tolerance of the effects. DMT is a naturally occurring chemical in the spine/ brain stem which is perhaps where the idea of Kundalini comes from ? The mushrooms grow symbiotically on the roots of pine trees and have been used in tribes for millennia. It's rumoured that this is the source of our tradition of Christmas trees and decoration. Collectors of the mushrooms would often line the branches of the trees with them when out foraging in order they dry in the sun which made carrying them easier. First Christmas ornaments were edible and it's interesting to find some ornaments are mushroom shaped or have mushroom designs.

Poor reasoning might cause destruction, or emotion with the control of reason, but not reason itself. Even Kant understood reason was the only cause of morality. We bare the burden of free will and reason is the only filter. Therefore be careful to develop correct reasoning. I don't think you have yet reached the stage where your emotions and thoughts are clearly identified. If you had, then you would instantly see the connections that bind them together. It's seems to me you have a misconception about reason. Perhaps it's too much exposure to Star Trek and the character of Spock ? I'm not joking here, because you did post it. Is this your definition ? A cold, logic bound, unfeeling alien struggling to keep things under control and acting more like a computer ? It really isn't at all that way :-) it's perfect unity. The Yin and Yang in balance. Compassion becomes practical compassion that can do some firm corrective action, love becomes a deep, abiding flow that stems from reason and not lust or ownership. Openness is no longer naivety but true open mindedness seated in wisdom. If someone was driving you down a dangerous, busy road. Would you prefer emotion or reason at the wheel. When reason and emotion work together in unity you can have fun and be responsible. That's the blend to aim for. When the going gets tough you really don't want a 'flapper' or the 'positive minded' who will simply accept things without acting.

No. Just expanding. https://howthebrainlearns.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/6-major-parts-of-the-brain-and-how-they-work/ the above might help. I can't comment on the accuracy of the work, but the general idea is there.

DMT will do it. Mushrooms man. :-)

As I said you wouldn't. So we are no further forward despite all that nostril breathing malarkey. Sure glad I didn't do three hours.

That's a lot of words to expound a fairly simple argument which I have heard many times. Of course words are conceptual keys. Their make up doesn't matter-but we will come back to that. You have picked English words, you could pick Chinese and I wouldn't initially have a clue as to the meaning or concept of the symbols. First find the definition and agree on it. So, in any integration of concepts one must accurately define the words used. The same with any argumentation. If the words of the premise cannot be accurately defined then there is zero chance of a succesful integration. now back to why the make up of words matter because you obviously know we are forming sounds. I think you have an inkling about the great song of the universe. The OM sound and all that good stuff. Have you ever wondered how we come to choose the sounds and words we use to represent reality ? Does the penny drop ? For me it was more an atom bomb than a penny. Words are the song of the universe into minds which are the ears of the universe. Here then is reality, if you listen. Once the song is transcribed accurately then reality is revealed. All the universe from the golden cut-the great OM.

All reasoning must begin with something that was not reasoned and the no reasoning can prove the first principles of reasoning. I'm not going to discuss ethics as it would take too long. Emotion is an effect. We are born with both cognitive and emotive faculty. Then we have to integrate them in the correct order. when we are young there is little reasoning and a much emotion. At first we are wired in series. Our minds can then absorb vast amounts of experience. We aren't reasoning much as yet and our emotions are given free reign. As we reach puberty our brains begin a rewiring process into parallel. Now the confusion begins as experience, reason and emotion begin to radically effect each other. A man can be at the mercy of pure emotion if he is not sufficiently mature. This should come as no surprise. It is the age of lust and ego building. We fight to impress and to win sexual mates. This is why it is said "there are no rules in love and war". Reason is secondary to emotion. At around the age of 55 (give or take). Reason has begun its golden age in those who have nurtured it. Emotion becomes a guide, but no longer a driving force. It is the beginning of wisdom, the lessening of the egoic nature and the blossoming of a deeper rational loving. The earlier reasoning is developed the better. However, our modern education system, the political system and the media are predicated on the emotional responses because emotional is controllable. If the educator/politician/media can manipulate the child into handing decision making over to an authority-the state, then it can use Pavlovian response techniques of pleasure/pain response and reward to control the actions of the subject. So, the question is not so simple as you had put it. If you are immature then you will experience emotions without applying rationality. The less reasoning-even as an adult-the more your actions will be controlled by emotion and then those actions will be rationalised. Love will be an expansive emotion with little connection to reason. You should know what you are feeling and what is making you feel that way. These are the subtle areas of witnessing beyond noticing thoughts one should notice moods. Develop reason sufficiently and you are no longer a prisoner of emotion, instead it works for you to provide joy and pleasure in the world instead of suffering and confusion.

The illiterate of the future will not be the person who cannot read. It will be the person who does not know how to learn. -- Alvin Toffler

Where do you derive morals and values if not through reason ? All the qualities of a man are the product of reason. Love, connection, compassion, openness are all the result of moral values derived by reasoning. As you say, you have a path you wish to follow. Best wishes.

It isn't me who is asking about me now, is it ? :-) It's you that claims you have third eyes, triangulation and wisdom of inner essence. When it's tested it breaks down into egoic defence very quickly. It is not my mind which requires opening. If you wish to shut down the discussion you should ask your inner wisdom why that is. As in Johns poem-see the contradiction and ask what it is telling you.

I've deliberately avoided going into detail, it isn't necessary.

Higher reasoning IS spirituality. Its what sets us apart from all other animals.

It isn't an either/ or sort of thing, it's an integral and inseparable faculty. There are automatic functions of the body which don't need intellect. An animal is a good example of an entirely automatic, non reasoning instinctive animal. Perception is everything to an animal. It doesn't need higher level reasoning to survive, eat, fight and mate. An ecosystem is an organic development, there is no intelligence behind it. It's the same way the free market works (or would do if we would refrain from trying to control it). It's in effect a self organising and self balancing organism. If you look at what we have created you can see that one man, or one group is incapable of creating something as simple as a pencil. Even a chicken sandwich would be an immense feat for a single household to create and yet we can pop into any high street cafe, pub, supermarket, vending machine, or garage and purchase one for a tiny sum of cash. I digress.

Single pointed mind without disturbance. For as long as I choose.