Karl

Yes, what we don't know now, we don't know yet, or can't know ever.

Absolutely not. I assume no power because I seek none and have none. If someone positions an argument I simply try and show where the fallacies are. Indeed Brian showed a fallacy in my own argument regarding the Trivium method and the classical Trivium. I found this enlightening and subsequently used logic to remove the fallacious statement from my argument. This is why I'm here. It's pointless going somewhere where my own understandings remain unchallenged. Isn't that really why you are here ? Surely it isn't to have your own biases confirmed ? Aren't you here to discover, as best you can, what is true ? I don't have 'a problem' anymore than a baby has a problem when it bites an object in order to define what that object is and how it relates to itself. This, to me, human discourse and idea swapping, is just an advanced form of that behaviour. The other reason I'm here is that we are headed for a disaster and the pilot is either asleep at the controls, or is so psychopathic he is intending to fly us all into the mountain. Most of the passengers are oblivious of the danger, only those who are uncomfortable with themselves know something isn't quite right, but they are busy trying to convince themselves that the discomfort they feel is entirely self generated.

I want to like that statement because it suggests something simple, 'we know what we can know and don't yet know what we don't yet know or will never know'. That everyone from practising Buddhist guru to the spiritually disconnected can equally know this to be true. Indeed those who require no spiritual practice may likely be less troubled with that understanding than the cleverest philosopher. As Jesus said "a camel may pass through the eye of the needle with less effort than the richest man".

There is no 'solution'. I don't offer logic as a solution to any problem because there must first be a problem-which there isn't. Logic simply helps to iron out the conflict in two statements to reach a conclusion. Where you see a need for a solution I see no such problem which requires one. I'm not in a loop because I have no requirement to solve a dichotomy in the first place. I don't have two conflicting statements to resolve. This is what you appear to misunderstand. You have made an assumption that I have the same conflict you are trying to resolve and am attempting to use logic to solve it. The fact is, logic made the dichotomy unnecessary. I'm simply using logic to show how the same arguments I had also once had are actually mind made creations. You can call these thoughts false self/ ego if you like, but I would just call them self defeating thoughts that are specifically ill formed by design in order to keep going around a track to avoid some part of reality (maybe responsibility)-it isn't any different to drug taking.

You are your mind, it is the same thing and yet you talk about separation of objects being unreal. It is here that you have created separation and it should be seen clearly that you have created an entirely separate mind from self. That's what Buddah realised was the cause of suffering. You have created a false dichotomy and immediately there is conflict and suffering.

Being the 'thought' is quite obviously not who you are. Why would you use that as an argument. Thoughts tumble about inside the mind like a washing machine which we are aware of that's all. The primary thought 'I' is all that is necessary, the rest is mind built memories. There is no conflict with your ideology. However if you try and dispel the 'I' thought you are wishing yourself dead. You can put an end to ignorance by constantly seeking to know reality. It is an ongoing exploration in which you will always be ignorant of something just as you will always be hungry. There is no omniscient primal knowing beyond 'I am that I am'. I am alive, consciously aware and seeking to know what is. To have the thought you are not what you are is to conflict with reality and increase ignorance by trying to erase the only tool you have to dispel it. You cannot slake a thirst by sewing up your mouth to prevent drinking.

You misunderstand the word 'identity'. It simply means separate thing that maybe identified as such. It does not mean that material or mental states are not changing. A corpse has separate identity from a chair, yet a corpse is not aware-it is not self identified, but it remains an item with individual identity never the less regardless of any conscious entity being aware of it. What you are saying is nothing has separate identity and all arises from conscious awareness, but if that was so there would only be consciousness and that cannot be because consciousness needs to be conscious of something. Therefore something must exist prior to consciousness. It shows your argument to be flawed. If you produced everything from consciousness how did you know what the things were that you were creating. You had knowledge of reality by exploring the world first and not the reverse. Where could you ever have dreamed up sky, bodies, self, animals, trees, shoes if there was no reality to explore ? Existence exists and it exists even when you are not conscious of it.

You are using your mind to suggest you have no mind, or you have gone beyond mind. This is is the primary loop which you have created for yourself. I did the same for about 3 years. You are no different to anybody else here in that we all have conscious awareness by which we identify as self. You can play head games with yourself, but you cannot evade what is an it ereducible part. You think therefore you are. Everything you think about, regardless of the way in which you twist and turn those thoughts, will always ultimately rest in this self same identified awareness. It's ironic that you are attached/identified with your thoughts of what reality is and not in attempting to contemplate reality directly. This is attachment to a belief and exactly what Buddah warned about. This is why he rejected Austerities and extended deep meditation because these were attachments to the ideology of 'no mind' either directly by extended sessions of 'no mind' meditation or physically, by austerities rejecting material reality.

Give yourself a kick up the backside. This isn't a spiritual thing, it's a practical choice that you can do something about. Time to get tough and take some risks.

We are have seperate identity in material and thought form as individual and distinct entities. Each person is unique in their assemblage and thoughts.

Each thing you add is yet another delusion Bud. This should be obvious. You have created your own logic loop which is piling one after another thoughts on top of the next. You aren't finding reality, but going in the opposite direction. It's strange to see this happening to another person because I must have gone through this same thing. You are believing reality is a different thing to what you directly experience as reality. It's like Russian dolls.

It's not necessary to find awareness or identity, it is what it is and is an irreducible axiom. It is bound up with the material of the body. It's not possible to discover the receiving part of a transistor radio either, but it remains a function of all its components and materials that it can receive a signal and produce a sound. If we throw the components arbitrarily on a desktop the radio will not function, it has to be assembled in a specific order.

@steve You are an active identified and consciously aware being, trying to convince yourself that is not that. For what purpose do you wish yourself away ? One must first have identity to be in a position to refute the idea of identity.

Awareness is bound up in the material of individual identity.

Nah. We have separate and individual identity, it's only our characters change as we gain more experience and age. We aren't part of a great cosmic whole except on the level of the material from which we are composed.

What about those having the thought of delusions about the thought of delusions ? There is no end to that game Bud. Reality is reality. Any thoughts about reality are simply what they are-thoughts about reality.

Stop posting this crap. It's made by climate alarmists who are defining terms as they go along. The Earth was an Alien planet at the time of the dinosaurs-it wasn't a time of 'global warming'. It was a time when the Earth was warmer than it is now and cooler than when it was a molten ball of rock. Saul Alinsky "he who controls the words controls the masses". The activists playbook.

Personally it's one of the only ways to get fruit into me. Never been a big fan.

Yet you still appear to be very keen to keep on using those 'game pieces' and the reasoning that goes with them to try and prove what you think reality is. Kind of hard to reach for a cup of tea if you have no limbs.

Most things that come out of politicians are warm and sticky. I like it better when there is Ketchup or the muffled sound of drowning.

I thought it was just a conspiracy theory for a long time. It's all part of this fourth world/wilderness/unesco/club of Rome/EU/Fabian sect. At one time they had worked the 'global warming' into the population that it just seemed normal, but since the Kyoto treaty collapsed it's easy to pick the politicians who are clearly working for this agenda. Milliband, Junker and Obama have recently tried promoting it as the most important threat of our time, but people have had enough of global threats when they get ISIS and economic meltdown. The feminist movement continues, but even that feels like it might now be in trouble. Ever looked at this: it's right good fun. Just click on the subjects and it takes you to the interconnects. Taomeow should like it. https://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain/6FBA86B0-0C57-9FCA-5CF9-D742DA541AAA Sent from my iPad

Well at least you can listen to what is been said and make an informed choice. It might just be a bit of stress related anxiety, but until you get a diagnosis you will be in the dark.

At least it's possible to do both at the moment. Later that choice might contract.

I have somebody in the family who began having problems in a similar way to the one you are describing. She had smoked some strong skunk which started things off. Prior to that she had been completely stable, popular, easy going and a high achiever. The drugs cooked something off and her personality became rapidly unstable until she had a serious breakdown. I hope that isn't your situation, but rather than wait for things to reach that point it would be better to seek medical advice earlier than later.

The good thing is that the whole TTIP package has eventually made the left realise that membership of the EU is part of a corporate and not a people's club. The situation in Greece has highlighted that the EU/ECB/IMF were never about supporting a new USSEU. At least there is more likely hood of opening a debate which Cameron has been trying to close down. I imagine this will occupy 'Mr slippery' as a major threat to his fiefdom. He also doesn't want any more interventionism in other countries which IMO is a good thing and will annoy the NeoCons and their rich backers. As a double bonus we can likely wave goodbye to the Green Party as 'environmentalists' does not form a central tenant in Corbinite policy. I watched an interview with the deposed leader Mr 'Wallace' milliband who is touting his two main areas of concern as 'fairness' and 'climate change'. That's most certainly wearing 'Agenda 21' on his sleeve- a Fabian first and foremost.