Karl

As long as it's consistent, Im just being careful not to fall foul of the off topic rule.

Where would you like me to put that ? Can we make it a sticky ? Would that make you feel better ? You appear to be confusing ego, reasoning and logic. Ego is individual identity and the values and thoughts that are separate to everyone and anything else. Reasoning is the higher faculty with which concepts are understood and integrated Logic is a tool of reasoning which can be developed.

Let it not be said that I didn't draw the line in the sand then :-) I got the feeling it was unacceptable to go off topic from the last few threads that got split and moved so for consistencies sake and all that, but if it's fine to carry on then I won't let it stop me :-)

Can we hack this thread beginning at #115 It's turned into a pointless argument that is miles off topic and has zero value to anyone but the idiots arguing with each other ?

Some do certainly say that. Some say a great deal worse than that.

Hope you realise we are clocking up 'off topic' post counts that got the last thread moved ? Mind you it has languished unloved since the ball got taken away. I'm ok with you on the path and experiencing those results. Is it that you would like to be respected more for your self achievement ?

Well there you are commonality at last.

Doctor ? Where did I say that. Just around the corner from me we have therapist that do Angel healing, Tarot reading, phrenology and all manner of new age stuff. They seem to do pretty well at it and none have degrees in those particular skills. I've met plenty of licensed practitioners I wouldn't trust with the most basic things either. A don't trust licenses or qualifications to guarantee anything. Several of our mass murder cases were perpetrated by those in white coats.

I'm not sure I had any 'knowledge' beyond what I had learned through AYP and various books on the subject. It's all interpretation after all. Well I was a very young beginner in psychology because of a mildly dysfunctional family, so I was studying TA when I was 14. I had read most of Castenedas books by the time I was 13. Life without a TV has its benefits and one is to develop a healthy appetite for reading. As I said it was anecdotal that's all. I leave psychiatry to the psychiatrists. All I know for certain is what I can glean about myself directly, I don't purport to be a specialist. I know the basics of rocketry, but I couldn't design a space craft to save my life. I know my ego, because it's me so I'm relatively well qualified to give anecdotal evidence on that aspect of myself. I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to drop in that you had used Jung to cure your neurosis, perhaps you just didn't like that I marginalised his work when you found it an effective cure ? I don't suppose you are a qualified psychiatrist/therapist either, but that didn't stop you dabbling and espousing the jungian philosophy. Pretty much then we are both charlatans :-) snake oil salesman and worse :-)

Nope, you can set up and practice with nothing more than public liability insurance. Why should that be a surprise, you are learning cultivation by people who also held no degrees or licences to do so, but you haven't queried that facet of your learning.

Was a therapist. There is no requirement for a license or degree to be a therapist and I wasn't-and would never-deal with clients that had severe trauma, clinically diagnosed depression or who were taking prescribed anti depressant drugs. I practised for around 2 years as part of my duties as a business adviser. Can you could point out where I was 'anything and everything'. I've had a varied career it is true to say, but it doesn't encompass universals. Neither is it necessary to 'impress' anyone, it was only by way of anecdotal evidence. In fact I have very few qualifications at all beyond rudimentary school and technical education. Told you before-thick as a brick. Not cut out for an academic life, fodder only for a career as a craftsman. No matter how much you keep at this it won't make the slightest difference to me, you might as well try and slice air. I've had far better and more manipulative practitioners of that trade to deal with than you have had hot dinners. Regardless, I don't blame you and continue to offer you friendship and will happily remove the thorn from your paw if chance ever allows. So growl, roar, scratch and bite if you must.

"If someday humans are flying around, walking on water and passing through walls, my guess is that the baby would have the ability to do these things from birth, although it would have to learn how. Maybe we all come into the world with default, factory settings, to make it easier on our parents, because babies floating, swimming and walking through walls could present a problem..." That's why we made Aeroplanes, Ships and doors. So much easier than looking stupid hitting the floor at 120mph, drowning or hospitalising yourself for numerous lacerations, broken bones and general wall induced trauma.

That wasn't anything to do with private sector funding. The trouble with the NHS is its impossibility. Just like all socialist ideals predicated on force, they crumble and collapse. Private sector involvement is very low. A handful of percent. The crimes-and they were crimes against humanity-were committed by hospital staff, the state regulators and those we supposedly trust to keep us safe. Much of that money goes to voluntary and third sector groups. Now we are going to get crony corporatism eventually, that is the natural progression for such systems. We will pay out taxes, a crony corporate will deliver the service and the state will wash its hands of any responsibility. It's had to go that way because no one will consider the alternative. They prefer crony corporations, taxation and state regulation to the free market. Blair simply got with the programme that previous, more socialist governments, had not wanted to accept. That eventually the NHS would have to be tackled because the ramifications are that eventually 100% of GDP would have to be spent on its up keep. The seed of its destruction was sowed at its inception-nothing is free and everything has a price. The answer for the state is of course to hand it to their pet cronies in return for trinkets and power. The voters will just accept this as the necessary condition to keep a 'free at the point of use' health industry functioning.

For Bindi: I think this best sums up what I'm about. The sound is pretty awful, but bare with it. John had a bad stroke a couple of years back and is a bit slurred - remarkable as the stroke affected his speech centres and they thought he might never speak again. It's on Western Spirituality. We segue between these things during discussions but John puts it so beautifully and with such wit that I could never do it justice. It dovetails with Marshall Rosenbergs work.

If you discover a successful natural cure there are millions of people desperate to know about it. I don't have full on rheinaulds, but I feel a lot of pain during colder conditions, in fact I won't ride my motorcycle if temperatures are lower than 12 degrees as it is painful and unsafe. On a secondary note, excuse the pun, musical instruments really are a pain in the neck......hands, back, feet, fingers :-) I play drums and have had many minor ailments which age has not helped. Recovery is longer and a lot of warm up time, gentle practice and accurate seat up are now crucial to avoid long bouts of pain.

Well, if we get the language right then perhaps we can get closer agreement. what do you mean by 'transcend' ? If you mean by that, to escape from cognitive conditioning then I agree. If you mean it to be 'go beyond' then I do not. Neither do I believe it's necessary to use Eastern Philosophies per se-some of their ideas are designed by early practitioners as a means of cognitive control and thus add to the problem and not end it. If people have no way of identifying the useful parts from the more control oriented parts then this becomes all but an impossible task. Our society is built on a platonic hierarchy of control and obedience and it is a highly refined methodology which gained additional insights through the works of Freud and Jung. The task of state education is to pull the claws and teeth of critical thinking from the pupils and prepare them (US) for a life within this structure. As such, attempts to rid ourselves of the cognitive condition are in effect a scattergun action. We can hit on some technique that works purely by accident, but equally we can fall for the same ancient rhetoric which utilised mystery as its key control element. Can we say the ego has been damaged, constrained and controlled in some sense and that its this damage that must be repaired in order for the individual to flourish as a beautiful, strong and resourceful individual living In voluntary cooperation and without the need for violent thought, words or actions ? I have linked to the Marshall Rosenberg YouTube training on Non violent communication which, in the first 20 minutes or so explains this. The rest of the training is worthwhile if you have not come across this method of resolution. I will post a link to John Taylor Gattos interviews which gets into the nitty gritty of how and why. Marshall is more concerned with overcoming what he describes as 'the static language' I have alluded to previously ( I actually hadn't heard this training material prior to posting it here and I found he had concluded that ideas such as; right, wrong, good, bad, reward and punishment are pivotal in the current state of education.

Well we have a marvellous socialised health care system which caused suffering and misery in one hospital in Staffordshire. The estimates of deaths caused by neglect and abuse is quoted as being as high as 1500 patients in that one hospital and the commission discovered it was far from being the only one. The socialist health minister at the time-Andy Burnham tried to influence the timing of the report for political reasons. Socialism at its best. Corrupt, murderous and ineffective. Selected commentary below thanks to the Guardian Newspaper: Let’s remember how, as Health Secretary, Burnham and his deputy allegedly told the Care Quality Commission to “tone down” a report into hospital deaths because it would be too “political” before an election. This is from the Guardian’s write up at the time: “Burnham, then health secretary, had questioned why he had heard “graphic details” about Basildon hospital’s treatment of patients on Sky News before he had been briefed about it in December 2009. The agreed protocol was that his department was told in advance of such reports and CQC officials were told he was “furious” about the breach. Two months later with an election looming, Burnham’s deputy Mike O’Brien also cautioned the regulator that “anything you do is going to be political whether you intend it to be or not. And of course once we reach March (2010), purdah, whenever that starts, you can’t publish anything”. Perhaps most damaging is the CQC’s own interpretation of ministerial wishes. Following the meeting with O’Brien a former non-executive director Martin Marshall at the CQC discusses the publication of the 2010 State of Care report, which summarised of the regulator’s findings in health and social care during the year. In an email to former chief executive Cynthia Bower and her deputy Jill Finney a few months before the 2010 general election, he warns about “the politics”. “It is really important that we get this report absolutely right before sending anything to the department … The DH will go through this with a toothcomb and it is naive to think that they will really only do a factual check”. Marshall said there was a need to be “careful about language” and suggests “being hard-hitting without presenting critical data will … be more politically acceptable than criticising with evidence”.”

Is it rainaulds ?( sorry, don't know the spelling). I'm in the same boat and need heated gloves for cool conditions. The right hand is furthest from the heart which is why it is colder than the left. I don't know about natural cures, but the gloves certainly are a practical help. At one time a few years back I was taking guitar lessons and during winter I would have to cancel, as it took so long to get my right hand functioning, it was a wasted hour.

Nowhere is it suggested amongst any of that text, the necessity you 'kill' the ego. It says to remove blocks and other unhelpful beliefs and to 'strengthen' the ego first. I would agree, that is my own experience. I worked for a time as a therapist with some degree of success-overcoming irrational fears and psychological blocks using a wide range of tools. I think mainly, people just want their needs to be heard and they have a hard time vocalising them because they are taught to distrust the motives of other people through consistent exposure to betrayal, judgement and analysis. Therapy provides a non threatening series of quack techniques which people tend to feel more confident in partaking in. It's also less traumatic for the therapist because it removes the close empathetic ties and hence the therapists own fears being brought to the surface. That's just my 2 cent opinion and not intended as a catch all, or accurate analysis, purely an opinion based on my experiences in that field.

Good analogy.

It's called an example. I could have used many examples but it's the kind of thing most people have experienced. My posts count appears to play havoc with your ego, or whatever it is you believe is left over.

Didn't work for what ? Its just meditation, if you want to make a big deal about it fine, but Yogani-for all his 'advanced' ideology-is promoting just ordinary sitting with eyes closed. The mantra is a useful method of keeping the mind occupied. If you think it's important to concentrate on a particular bit of the mantra, well then that's your business and you do that. I didn't really get involved with AYP after the first couple of years. I did the meditation and worked with SRMs self inquiry and other mindful techniques that were not part of AYP. It seemed important at the time, but not now. I've said all I will say on AYP under that particular topic and that warning applies to all practices equally. I didn't find the answer I wanted in AYP anyway, or in any of the other practices. It was just part of the process, stuff moves on like a stream.

Nothing has intrinsic value and so we can agree at least on that point. Clearly, the way you agitate and converse reveals your ego to be very much alive and kicking, beyond that I'm not prepared to guess. I would say that if you really believe your ego is is dead then this is an issue that should be resolved.

Makes almost perfect sense except the fear part. Fear doesn't necessarily cause suffering, it's just a response. Irrational fear can cause suffering, but then is it always fear ? Hard to say, there are shades. If you get to your holiday destination and the area is not as expected then disappointment can cause suffering. It isn't the fact that it's just unpleasant and is naturally disliked, but it's the mind talk 'this should not have happened to me' 'I've been a fool to trust that holiday company' etc. Then, if you happen to be in the way of seeking Zen you may add 'I shouldn't be thinking these thoughts' or 'I should be happy with what I have'. All of these thoughts conflict with reality and the self of worth. The impact is then on the Ego.

Neurosis is quite right. If you are saying its a mental issue then I agree. Ego is not separated in psychology, it's self worth. No attempt s made to 'kill' the ego. Go see a clinical psychologist and tell them that is your intention and see how they view it.