Karl

You stick with that old fogey because that is exactly how it should be. Children are naturally curious and love to learn as long as the environment encourages it. How many have had their aspirations drowned and their dreams burned in attempt to make them fit into a bell curve ?

Hence the reason we should end state schooling as soon as possible. I can't remember this being the case in my own school, but it appears from anecdotal evidence that things have been getting progressively worse.

Pretty much ties up with my thoughts, but I don't think Clinton does consider an air war in Syria as viable. She is sabre rattling as neither Russia nor the USA are going to start slinging nuclear weapons around. If she was really that crazy I could see a mutiny by the generals. She is engaged in a verbal war which is now an MSN narrative with the intention of trying to look strong/ competent whilst deflecting as much wiki leaks and health concerns as she can. She couldn't care less about the Syrians, she just wants to front up Putin with warlike rhetoric to get her elected.

WTF ! I don't give a toss why it is some women don't choose it, they just don't and you think this a problem ? There is no equality except the equality of rights, you are measuring fucking rainbows. How did you get that lodged in your brain ? I cannot believe what I'm hearing, I thought this was just myth. I've seen young people talking like this like they just came out of a re-education camp. The number of women in any field is not a sign of 'gender inequality' whether it is the result of a historical/cultural patriarchy-which is what you are implying. Stop looking for correlation where there is none to be found. if you want to start going down this stupid path, then perhaps you should stop off at the bit in history where men were expected to go to war to fight and die and women gave the white feather to men who refused. History shows women to have had a very nice time of things whilst the man worked himself into an early grave - men's lifespan was significantly shorter than women due to the expectation that they were bread winner in peace time and defender in war. Men were also entirely responsible for the debt of their wives. We have equality of rights and then an awful lot of special privilege for women which appears to be some kind of perverted compensation that they are due because of some mythical history which has nothing to do with the men of today's world who are getting punished for these sins of the past.

You keep talking about truth, but what truth exactly ? It's not a 'carefully constructed worldview'. I don't champion laissez faire capitalism on a whim. It is simply the only moral political system because it removes the shackles that are stopping rapid innovation, increased wealth, lower prices, greater abundance and the most efficient use of scarce resources. It is all about people freely trading value for value and there is nothing that can replace that. Any attempt to interfere is to reduce freedom by force. Force is anti-reason, a gun is not an argument. As our minds are our only tool of survival and reason is our only absolute, then to use force to limit freedom is to remove the freedom for people to survive by their own efforts. No man can better tell another man how he must live. I have omitted the law here, but it's necessary in all trading and human societies to protect the right to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness and this is what necessitates a delimited and objective Government.

What customs. If women want to code there is absolutely nothing stopping them from doing so. There are no limits on education nor on jobs. I've never heard anything so ridiculous. We had women engineers when I was at uni back in '85. There is no equality difference in the UK at least which is what we are talking about. There are no limits on anything for women, not even the army or airforce. There will never be equality in the sense of everyone acting like clones, indeed this would make it impossible to choose those who had some spark, or talent to push a business forward, or create fantastic art. We would end up with a completely grey world of sexless, clone creatures. Yuk.

Channel 4 was playing this out as 'crazy trump' and his 'Alex Jones' conspiracy club connection. Apparently, the newsreader said with a laugh of disbelief and a shaking of his head, that's the mainstream media had it in for Trump and were rigging it for Clinton ! How could MSM be anything other than pure unbiased story presenters ? Gosh golly it's unthinkable - well except for the propagandist RT of course :-/

There is an emotive accent to 'gap'. In marketing it is said "perhaps there is a gap in the market, but is there a market in the gap" This sums up the idea of 'gap' based thinking. Is there a 'gap' in longshore fisherman, deep sea divers, plant maintenance, scaffolders and roofers ? Of course there isn't. There is sufficient proof to show that men and women prefer different kinds of productive activity, it is the feminists activist political influencers that drive the idea of gender gaps in order to suggest 'more must be done'. I mentioned this in another thread. It's a bit like UKIP in many ways. Once the work of leaving the EU has been completed then UKIP are redundant. However, those groups that have similarly completed rights equality want to remain in power and must ferret out ever more ludicrous 'equality gaps' to repair. It's the silent 'equality' that precedes 'gaps' in order that people don't catch on to the game being played.

I try not to. If my life depended on it I could do so. It doesn't and I don't.

It's like any good fictional good drama, but this ones real. Hillarys lead suddenly collapsed back to 4 points yesterday in the latest liars poll. That's within the bounds of polling error, which means they are neck and neck. The prolitariat that 'are kept compliant and ignorant' appear to be biting their reins.

Why not teach seed drilling, hand riveting or horse shoeing ? These were all vital skills in the 1800s. Coding isn't a high level skill, it does not engage cognitive development. Coding is no use without a product that needs to be coded. It isn't a stand alone skill. I don't know how old you are, but I lived through the ICT revolution from its very beginnings. I have seen how quickly the skills change to the extent that learning one kind of thing is pretty much useless for any other kind of thing. We need entrepreneurs and that cannot be taught. Education should not be about turning out shovel ready workers, but adults that can learn new skills from the basics. Programming is related to language, maths and science. It is a good grounding in those subjects that is required, with an opportunity to take up skills as they appear but not necessarily at school itself.

There are plenty of online coding courses without waiting for the Government to introduce them. In my experience the state education system is so slow at changing that the things taught will be so out of date. It's also likely that there won't be any need for coding after all that education. We should be educating young adults how to educate themselves then offering external pathways for their particular interests. This battery hen style system doesn't work.

You are incorrect, they simply don't want to do it, it's fucking boring. I worked in that industry for industrial automation selling the equipment. We had access to PLC programme training. I fell asleep and that's rare for me. I tried coding my own website but completely lost the will to live after six weeks. My brother, by contrast, loves it, but then he is very geeky. Coding isn't a long term career, it will shortly be automated to the point that very few coders are needed and those that are will likely be cheaper Chinese engineering types.

A gender gap ? You mean women don't particularly like coding and engineering ? There's a gender gap in nursery schools too, because guys don't particularly like looking after children. We can easily outsource coding and engineering - just wait until the new generation deluge of highly technically educated engineers from China are released onto the world. The problem in the UK is too much Government strategy trying to create certain types of industry and labour whilst sidelining others. We have too much regulation and a pathetic, over expensive paper qualification system that has meant changes in skilling for a changing employment environment is prohibitively expensive and time consuming. We have a housing market bubble which makes it difficult for youngsters to find cheap accommodation close to areas where they are needed. Our taxes, employment laws, welfare system and wage fixing are destroying entrepreneurship and the creation of new jobs. The increasing number of years youngsters are stuck in schools reduces the non academics life chances of 'on the job learning' in a technical/production environment. Minimum wages, taxes, regulations make it impossible for business to train and employ them. The Government is flashing tax payers cash on useless apprentice schemes instead of allowing this to naturally occur by leaving school earlier.

I will eat the best I can afford to eat thanks.

I took it a while ago, but I got the impression it was something like that. I was only curious. I'm as bright as I am no matter how bright that is.

I did not suggest you had to conform with anything in particular, I made the observation that you lack sufficient moral courage for me to trust you. If you are happy with how you are that's fine, we can halt further discussion.

Do you find yourself to be confusing and mercurial ? Laughing at errors is one thing, but laughing at yourself generally is a form of moral cowardice. I would wonder if I could trust you because you are flakey. Like a staircase which suddenly collapses under foot. A loose nail, or a creak is fine, but I wouldn't wish to be buried under a pile of rotten wood. I find this to annoying in a person, I wonder if they can't take themselves seriously, then why the hell should I ? Is this something in which you feel pride ?

Then you wish to laugh at yourself ? Not for some occasional foolish act, but for your own philosophy, for your virtues and values you hold ? Well don't let me stop you. If you wish to denigrate yourself then go right ahead.

Polite hahaha. We are both being 'polite', but one of us is being dishonest to themselves. Aren't you just a teensy weensy bit mad at me BES ? Go on and admit it here, write it here and then observe the effect it has on your disposition. You aren't really annoyed by me, you are annoyed at your dishonesty in being unable to admit it.

:-) I have several years ago but only online - not sure if it counts ? I was invited to submit my score to Mensa, but I was only doing it out of curiosity and had a sneaking suspicion there was cash involved.

The very fact that you have felt the need to reply defensively should reveal the reality being denied. It's fine for me to be defensive because I don't hold to the premise that my mind requires/is silent therefore who is kidding themselves here ? All I have to do is give you a little jolt and off you go. The silent mind is gone in a flash and BES comes out fighting. You can ignore my comments, but you cannot evade your own mind. Reality will blow down your little refuge at some point and your reply is proof enough that it is onl straw. This feels in a sense like I'm having a go, I'm really not, I should really just keep my nose out of your life because it is your life, but I'm an inveterate fiddler that just cant stop until I've put something straight. It's OCD of a kind. If you stop posting nonsense you will do me a favour :-) just close the bar and stop serving me mental alcohol :-)

Should I point out the obvious ? "I stopped analysing" - :laugh: you can run but you can't hide BES. You just analysed that you stopped analysing. We have to choose to reason it isn't automatic, evading doesn't make the crap go away that's inside your mind, it gives you a sense that by giving up that it has vanished. You got to sor out the loft, the mess doesn't get better because you dropped the hatch. I'm telling you this so because I've been there. For a while, perhaps years, it is possible to evade and try and put emphasis on the tightrope as it appears in front of you. It's a distraction, a hypnotic device to focus upon. One day reality will re-enter and the loft lid will be torn away and there will be that whole mess you had ignored. It isn't easy to start putting it right, but why not start before the inevitable happens ? It's your choice, you can rant at me if you want, but ultimately don't you know anyway without my saying so. I know I'm putting a finger in a wound and I cannot avoid the verbal missiles that get thrown as a result. Just think about it.

What were you analysing ?