Karl

I did not imply more than I wrote.

Because it's impossible. Nike's slogan isn't a philosophy. We have to plan ahead because we are reasoning animals, we aren't simple perceptual operators in the way animals are.

You are an absolute.

:-) A is A, a thing is a thing, we can know reality directly. That there are 'other views' suggests there is no one view which is correct. There are two ways to look at that. One is the absolute, the other is man made. It's important that you define which one you are using. For instance, it is absolutely true that if you do not receive oxygen then you will die, it is not absolutely true that the price of an item on a supermarket shelf is anything but a human creation. What would it be for you to know the absolute ? I cannot say what will happen, but I can know that something will happen and I can know that it will happen with direct reference with reality. So, I can know that I cannot have my cake and eat it, I cannot magic 2 cakes out of one, the cake remains a cake and does not change into a melon because I think it can, nor can the cake appear out of thin air-it must be created by productive effort. If you can understand absolutes-what is-from man made, then you can begin to see things that you had not seen before. With regards to a man made 'view' well that is a prediction if it is predicated on other human action. An enrepreneur-which we all must be-must try and see what the future will bring, but it must always be connected to reality. Listening to 'other views' which are predictions can be informative, but absolutes are absolutes. One is not the other.

I couldn't tell you anything you wouldn't accept. ;-)

Mankind is part of the universe, there is no ultimate origin of man, as there is no origin of the universe, the origin of man is the universe. However, as I know you won't, don't ever take my word for it. ;-)

It's very simplistic because it fails to point out what the problem is. Some of the implications are correct, but only in the sense that at the the top of every mountain, the only way is down. The lack of depth is understandable if you haven't been taught Austrian economics and Objectivism. In effect the world is seen by people through a pragmatic prism and Keynesian economics and big Government is seen as the way the world must operate. Let me give a different view: The world has a centralised, monetary system controlled by central banks and Governments. They have been arranging the world to their liking, but this world is an illusion, the market has vaporised and capitalism has been rendered impotent. The result is debt fuelled production. An attempt to steal production from the future without ever creating the means of production in the present. To concretise; it is pure theft perpetrated by fraudsters who have promised their victims that the theft is really an investment that will one day multiply and shower the victim with wealth. Over the last 100 years the pace of this theft as increased because it is a Ponzi scheme. This Ponzi scheme relies on the confidence of the people on the necessity and effectiveness of the institutions, plus the people must believe that reality is not reality as they perceive it. If they are told that Government spending creates wealth, or that low interest rates and inflation are good things, then they must totally believe these things are true. As such, the world is in a horrible financial mess and central planners are reaching their end game. People have begun to see something isn't quite right. There is the beginnings of a feeling that something is wrong and they have begun to seek the cause. In Britain, as in the rest of Europe, the magic spell has been unwinding. The elite have had to work harder and harder to try and convince the people that they are better off sticking with the elites structures and planning. Yet it is increasingly clear that the promises being made are now failing to materialise. Britain has a weak economy, it has massive structural problems and an economy built on the same Ponzi scheme the rest of the world is running, but, unlike the EU it has one difference-it can print its own money. Whilst the EU has been attempting to fix its structural weakness country to country (let's exclude the Brussels gravy train technocrats for now as it confuses the picture), Britain has been pretending that it has been fixing the structural problems. It has been pretending and extending. It has partially managed this by levering of its EU membership. It has had a guarantor in the EU block which has helped it to hide its profiligacy. It's important to understand where we are in order to understand why we are here and where we are going. The reason immigrants are pouring into the UK is because Britain has tricked the world into believing it's bullshit about having a strong economy created by a fiscally responsible Government. The game being played is a confidence trick in a world which is based on confidence tricks. However, reality is reality, X is X and a thing is a thing. You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but eventually that settles the fooled into two camps. One camp is shrinking in number, but has a very good life, whilst the other camp is expanding and seeing its wealth collapse. There comes a tipping point and the EU referendum is the result. If the elite cannot find a way to convince the people to continue trusting them, then the whole thing begins to unwind. We see this in Greece who are now told to accept their position by force. They no longer believe what they are told and the troika has resorted to the old fashioned method of imposing its will by the use of threats and potential violence. If we leave the EU-and it's by no means certain that we will-then we will have chosen a path of discovery. The thing we will discover will be that lie told by the Government about the strength of our economy. We will discover that we paid into a Ponzi scheme that won't ever pay out. The immigrants will discover that there aren't any real jobs, or the money to pay for them. When that happens they will begin returning home. Britains pretend economy will begin to unwind with ever increasing velocity and then the Government will be forced to cut back on its size and its regulatory control. This will all come as an unpleasant shock for those who had come to depend on the lie in order to live. The better the living standards enjoyed, the more Ponzi money, jobs, welfare utilised, the more pain will be suffered. Britain will have independently accepted what no part of the western world has been prepared to accept-the truth. Once we have swallowed the bitter pill things can begin turning around for us and the rest of the world will eventually face the same truth. He fact is that believing something does not make it so; that demand cannot be sustained without supply, that free market capitalism is the only known way to increase wealth honestly, that there are no free meals-there are borrowed meals that eventually must be paid back. The referendum result might be the beginning of a whole new kind of world, or it might all just collapse into anarchy, war and violence. Whatever happens the people on the bottom of the ladder have woken up and the Government does not have the means to placate them. It may yet convince them to accept the pain, it may do so as was done to the Greeks by force. It may even find a way of pretending and extending in order to throw some booty to those who are dissatisfied. The people may decide they are better sleeping. Any of these things, or a mixture of them may occur, yet one thing is certain, no one can stop an idea which has come into being. The EU has already launched an attack on our markets-this was expected, they will attempt to extract a reversal, or a compromise. However their ammunition is very limited and we are also a player in the roundabout money scheme. The EU will need to prop up its banking sector with ever greater bailouts if it is to continue the attack. The European won't accept that situation for any length of time.

My concern is the 'no rush' comment. That we need a negotiating team when clearly we would be negotiating from a position of still being members. Why ? I can only think that it means an attempt to hold Europe to ransom but to remain members. I have written to my local labour MP requesting that they ensure our departure is undertaken immediately and not delayed by Camerons departure.

http://www.stopbite.com/ Interesting thing my sister sent me today. She tends to buy natural products and has always bought the above product for her camping trips to Scotland. Have a look at the first line of writing at the top of the page. This company have been forced to stop selling their popular product because of EU rules. Big business wins again with EU backing. She has found this to been the case with many natural products such as colloidal silver.

Hardly. He does go through a lot of hats though. Paddy is a bluffer and thinks shouting over the top of his opponent is logical argument.

Call it as I see it. He is a very unimpressive intellect.

Completely pro-eu and a dumbo.

Not the brightest light on the tree.

"Nowt to do with me, I'm only here for the champagne and nibbles" It amazes me that he can just quit after being voted in to serve a term. After saying he would remain whatever happened he unilaterally decides to act like a fucking caretaker who doesn't want to do a damned thing but create a long delay. All this 'steadying the ship' nonsense is just code for fancying about at tax payers expense. Then George-the part time chancellor-has vanished.

We don't seem to be getting any guidance. Instead the parties are squabbling amongst themselves. Fucking politicians, let's stack them in a pile and set a fire. If anyone had any doubts to the complete useless, incompetent power grabbers prior to the referendum, then they surely can't have any left. This was the most important decision for generations and the kids are chucking their toys out of the sand pit. George can't be found, Cameron the quitter doesn't want to do the hard work, the Tories and Labour are tearing themselves apart trying to find a culprit for the electorates inability to follow a simple command to vote remain.

As Bloomberg reports… Britain’s 15 wealthiest citizens had $5.5 billion erased from their collective fortune Friday after the country voted to leave the European Union. Britain’s richest person, Gerald Grosvenor, led the decline with a loss of $1 billion, according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. He was followed by Topshop owner Philip Green, fellow land baron Charles Cadogan and Bruno Schroder, majority shareholder of money manager Schroders Plc. * * * So – to summarize – the two main parties who were pushing for Britain to stay in The EU (The wealthy elite and The EU itself) are the biggest losers of the British vote for self-determination.

Yep, because, as we know from the media, politicians and Facebook bubble: leavers are backward looking, old, thick, bigoted, uneducated morons who don't know any better and should never have been allowed a vote. Remainers are of course highly educated, globally minded enlightened who should decide what is in the best interests of those too stupid to understand what they were doing. Maybe we put our cross in the wrong place eh Chang ? I'm sure I saw some leavers holding the pencils upside down.

There is no one left from that era dude. We grew up in the horrors of the 60s/70s which I assure you were anything but good. We really want to take back control for ourselves, not to determine your futures, or dictate what your future should be. We do not mean 'take back control' as meaning to go back in history, we are talking about the future way forward. No more diktats, no more nanny state, no more idiotic regulations and laws. Let everyone have an opportunity without the blanket of authoritarianism that is smothering us. We aren't 'rose tinted' in any sense, we are looking to a brave new world, somewhere we haven't been.

What does it matter, it's a democracy, everyone gets one vote. If the vote had gone the other way then I wouldn't have blamed it on the young. We all got a vote and we are all entitled to decide the best outcome old, young, black or white. I'm trying to open your eyes to what you are saying. I was young when my parents voted on the EU, I didn't blame them. We are all, by degrees, old and young. That a young person believes they are 'entitled' because they are young is what is wrong with our society. As it is the workforce is filling up with 55+ and 65+ that are returning to work because many have been paying out for their children and coupled with depleted pensions and savings due to low interest rates- supposedly to help the young afford homes. Ironically of course, the 65+ group have been prevented from automatic retirement by EU law. Of course there is mounting resentment, but the young directing it at the old are being sold a dummy. The old will prosper less out of the referendum result than the young. We have given you a chance, one day you might realise it. You are blaming a group for voting to leave the EU, when your real beef is high house costs, crappy jobs, high prices, debt and low wages. The EU hasn't helped in any way to make things better, it has increased prices, destroyed jobs, raised taxes and made starter jobs difficult to come by and at very low pay. House prices have increased because of high demand due to immigration and low interest rates.

What's this, another referendum re-run. You know exactly what I want, I've made it plain enough. Others may not know precisely what they want, but they have had enough with what they don't. They aren't interested in another Tory/Labour government. They don't want EU unelected bureaucrats. Politicians have fucked up their lives to the point that there isn't anything left to fuck up. Trade is trade, it doesn't require a political union, or even a political dimension. We already comply with all the EU regulations and if they imposed a tarriff then so would we. As they buy more from us, then this would harm them in the long run, so, realistically we will have full access to the single market without any Tarriffs. I don't know what you mean by 'decide on everything' ? We do decide on everything. Trade is about mutual gain. You buy a car from me with your wine and cheese. We decide on whether it's a good deal and how much wine and cheese the car is valued at by negotiation. You and I are transacting like this many times a day. We decide, because only we can. Arent we all just people trying to live our lives the best we can ? Why are you blaming one group ? That they 'won't have to live very long' is equal to 'they are blacks, they don't need the same things white need'. It isn't a legitimate argument unless you are in favour of the Nazi party which said the same thing about the Jews as you are saying for old people. It's pretty disgusting.

Again, you don't get it. This isn't about who runs the Tory party, or who is PM. Boris is a non-entity in regard to the vote. People understood what they were voting for, but they all have varied ideas about the cause of the issues. Some say immigration, others the EU cost, regulation or the politicians. It isn't going away. It can't be brushed under the carpet anymore. There is a class divide and it's no good pretending it isn't there. If Boris or anyone else do not provide speedy answers and visible change then they will be removed.

You aren't listening, you are re-hashing the arguments we already had, we made our decision. This is about the people taking back control in the only peaceful way they can make the argument. You think this is about these single issues because that's been the way politics have worked for so long-just fix this, or make a law about that-this is about repealing that kind of politics completely. It doesn't work anymore-the jig is up. I'm sure many don't know what the problem is, or what the answer might be, but they know something isn't working for them and that successive parties have promised to fix it-we got tired waiting.

Sounds ageist to me. If you sad that about blacks, gays or Muslims you would be called a race hating Nazi. Yet because it's just 'old people' you feel you are perfectly within your rights to act like the bigots you despise. Nice eh ? It is the EUrophiles and little Londoners that aren't waking up to the global changes that have occured. The elite tried to frighten us with pension threats, security risks, world wars and financial catastrophe if we dared to leave the nest. Well, we weren't frightened, us older generation are made of tougher stuff. We relish the wider world which we were forced to abandon when we became introverted and inward looking. You got your vote, we all made our decisions, it's a democracy. Suck it up.

Peter Hitchens latest blog is very pertinent to understanding these referendum results, because people are trying to treat them like its some kind of big mistake by the great unwashed: They shouldn’t have tried to scare us. It is a sign of how little the Remainers understand or know about Britain, and above all about England, that they thought that would work. I do sometimes wonder if these odd denatured shiny types, who actively prefer foreign rule to their own, ever visit their own country. Confined to glossy multicultural London neighbourhoods for most of the year, they then hurry abroad. Most of them are more familiar with Florence or Barcelona than they are with the equal glory of Lincoln Cathedral, whose history, beauties and significance are alike unknown to them. Well, they should have tried harder to visit Britain. They might also have learned to like it, its unspectacular difference from anywhere else in the world (I know, I’ve visited 57 other countries), its gruff reserve that masks much deeper feelings, and its ancient dislike of being pushed around. Immigrant workers are pictured working the fields near Boston in Lincolnshire. The town voted 75.5 per cent in favour of Leave The Remainers’ snobbery was their undoing. They believed they were superior to their fellow countrymen and women, when they were just luckier and richer. Judging from their response to the referendum result, many of them still do. For instance, they refused to be aware of the quiet seething resentment about mass migration that I found in Boston four summers ago. The established parties ignored this, and the liberal thought police tried to claim it was bigotry. But it was real, and this was reflected on Thursday night in a 77.27 per cent turnout and a 75.5 per cent vote to leave in that town. I do not see how these people could be clearer about their discontent over the enforced transformation of their lives. I am amazed at their patience. I strongly advise against ignoring them any longer. Of course, it’s not just about immigration. A wonderful alliance, which I have long hoped for, has been forged in this campaign. It has brought together two groups who had never really met before. The first group are the social and moral conservatives, whose views the Blairised Tory Party despised, while it still relied on their money and their votes. The second are the working-class families whose votes the Blairised Labour Party relied on, while it dismissed and ignored their concerns. It is not just mass migration that worries them. They are also distressed about the decline in their standard of living, the pressure to get into debt, the way good state schools are reserved for the rich and cunning, the shrivelling of opportunities for the young, the unchecked spread of crime and disorder, the ridiculous cost of housing, and the general overcrowding of everything from roads to hospitals. If it weren’t for old tribal party labels, these two groups would long ago have realised they were friends and allies. They would have combined in a mutiny against the PR men and hedge-fund types who lounge arrogantly on the upper deck of politics, claiming that none of these problems exist – because they don’t experience them themselves. For instance I, and millions of Tory voters, have far more in common with excellent Labour MPs such as Kate Hoey or Frank Field than I do with David Cameron and the weird, obedient, meaningless quacking robots with which he has filled the Cabinet Room and the Tory benches in the House of Commons. But the ossified party system kept them apart until now. They could not and did not combine to defeat their common enemy. And so at Election after Election, those who merely wanted to live their lives much as they had always lived them, and were baffled and pained by the unending changes imposed on them, had nowhere to turn. The parties they thought of as their own were in fact in an alliance against them. Blair became Cameron and Cameron became Blair, and after a while it was impossible to tell which was which. It’s not just me saying this. As Janan Ganesh, a writer in the Financial Times, recently noted: ‘Conservatives and moderate adherents to the Labour cause share more with each other than with the rest of their own parties… Against them in this referendum is a party in all but name… drawn from the Tory Right and the Labour Left and incubated in the Leave campaign. These politicians are conservative and anti-establishment at the same time.’ Noting that people such as Labour’s Ed Balls and Chancellor George Osborne have much more in common than they like to pretend, Mr Ganesh says: ‘These politicians have the same basic orientation.’ He believes it would be ‘myopic’ for them to ‘remain separate out of fealty to a party system that was forged in the industrial age for an empire nation’. And he adds: ‘I hear the Tory and Labour moderates newly mingling in the Remain offices rather get on.’ I bet they do. That is why I don’t care who fills David Cameron’s place at the head of a Tory Party that long ago outlived its usefulness. There shouldn’t be any more David Camerons, thanks very much. In future, people like him should stand openly as what they are, globalist pro-migration Blairite liberals, and not call themselves Conservatives. So the important thing is that we do not miss this great moment when the people have joined together against a discredited and failed elite. 'Remainers refused to be aware of the quiet seething resentment about mass migration that I found in Boston four summers ago. The established parties ignored this, and the liberal thought police tried to claim it was bigotry' What we need is for the Tory Party and the Labour Party to collapse and split and be replaced by two new parties that properly reflect the real divisions in the country. Since both the old parties are empty and decrepit, with few active members and reliant on state support and dodgy billionaires, the collapsing and splitting bit should not be too hard. The replacement is up to us, the British people, who have now demonstrated our power if we unite. But it can only happen if the next stage is a General Election, which is much more urgent than a Tory (or Labour) leadership contest. Thursday’s vote shows that the House of Commons is hopelessly unrepresentative. The concerns and hopes of those who voted to leave the EU – 51.9 per cent of the highest poll since 1992 – are reliably supported by fewer than a quarter of MPs, if that. Ludicrously, neither of the big parties agrees with a proven majority of the electorate – and neither shows any sign of changing its policies as a result. If we do nothing about this scandal, for it is a scandal, then how can we be sure we will get out of the EU at all? The elite is rallying and whimpering that the minority must be treated ‘with respect’– more than they would have done had they won. Parliament is pro-EU. The Civil Service is pro-EU, the judiciary is pro-EU, the BBC is pro-EU and is now returning to its old bad habits after an admittedly creditable attempt at balance. Its 6am radio news bulletin on Friday said, falsely and dangerously, that the pound had ‘collapsed’ following the result and there will be a lot more of this foolish panic-mongering in days to come. We have had only half a revolution. If we do not now complete it, we will have missed an unequalled opportunity to reclaim what is and always was ours.

Are you deaf and blind ? This isn't about bread and circuses anymore, if people had wanted the status quo they would have voted for it. This is about taking back control-not just from the EU. This is a roar from the quiet people who no longer see any relevance in the political elite and their vacuous schemes and policies. It is neither a vote in support of the Tories or Labour, it's the opposite, we don't want them any more. We don't require any more political shape shifting, inclusivity or social engineering, we want freedom from all of that. We are sick of it bcause it has made people poorer and destroyed ambition and life chances. The EU is the very essence of that kind of Neo aristocratic authoritarian social sculpting and that is what people are objecting to.