Karl

Not when on the road, there are too many hazards to act automatically.

I specifically said that you should believe all you see. What you see is what you see and belief has nothing to do with it. It's our conceptual capacity that is engaged after perception.

I was a Labour voter when he took over. After the mess he left and his obsession with gaining the post of PM I stopped voting completely. I suppose it's fair to say he was the cause of my embarking on a great deal of investigation and learning.

The man who blew up our economy after telling us 'no more boom and bust' and who gave away all our gold at a knock down price, then bailed out the bankers. I give him points for not taking us into the Euro. At least at that time he must have realised what a heap of crap it was. That was of course before he found euro religion as an advisor to TWEF known as DAVOS and got himself appointed to PIMCO. Do the masters bidding and riches can be yours.

Wouldn't put it past them. Looks to me like there are now heavy instances of 'leavers' across the EU now.

Polls-I don't trust them. Got another 500 leaflet drop to do. The problem is that there is usually a last minute curl towards the status quo, but I suspect the revelations surrounding the Turkish visa, plus the horrible massacre in Orlando may well have made people less afraid of speaking out and being called xenophobic. On the doorstep in the North, there are very few remainers. I woukd suspect it will be a landslide for leave in our region, but we aren't often representative. This is a Labour stronghold though, so if Labour voters are swinging to leave as are the vast number of Tory and UKIP, then we might have it in the bag. I've read that some pollsters suggest as high as 92% for leave. Bye bye Cameron and Osborne.

Why apologise ? I don't 'endorse', if someone wants to evade that's their choice. We all value symmetry and certain forms and proportions-the golden ration/thirds. Artists and designers have always understood that. A beautiful woman is beautiful in any culture. Abstract art is something different. The artist attempts to portray themselves in a concrete form. If the viewer feels a connection, then they will enjoy the work, others will be repelled.

I'm intimately in contact with my self when motorcycling. Every part of my senses and cognitive capacity are directed towards the goal of riding well. It is a thing of fully comitted conscious awareness with full responsibility of purpose. The pleasure comes from achieving the goal of safe, fast, skilled riding. It is the same for the hunter, or the warrior. To be aware, to understand, to know, to dispel all ignorance and to cast off all evasion. To be nakedly in the moment of raw self control. What you are doing right now is evading. You know this is true, but you try and justify the reason why it isn't. I say that the greatest reward is to be the hero in your own life, beholden to no one, throwing off ignorance and facing life full square. At the end you can say that you did it your way.

All you are doing is wishing. You can do somethings and you can't do others. I know what my values are based in reality. My prime value is that of my own life. Perhaps I might wish to live forever, but maybe something might come along which would make me change my mind. Life is dynamic. I already have the truth balls to bones. I already underwent that Damascene conversion. Reality is reality, we don't experience it any differently. The difference lies in our conception of reality. As I said in another thread, man has to answer 3 questions: where am I ? How do I know it ? What should I do ? These questions are concurrent and not individually exclusive. When you are prepared to answer them, then you will discover the truth. The problem is that most people do not want to answer these questions for fear of the truth. Enlightenment is hardest to attain for those that fear enlightenment. It is a conundrum. You want to know, but you refuse to open your eyes for fear of what you will learn, so ignorance remains. I do not say that what you will find will delight you, but it will enlighten you.

In that film, desire was based on a hypothetical situation disconnected from reality. Our desires are not based on 'anything is possible' and the effect of believing that we can obtain anything we desire is mediated by existent reality.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/eu-coming-close-down-your-free-speech Frau Merkel and the EU coming to shut down your free speech now. We have also learned that documents have been released showing the Turkey is on the cusp of obtaining Visa free travel throughout the EU. It's good to know that Turkey has 4 times the crime rate of the U.K. And that-according to my Turkish neighbour several weeks ago-that it will be the criminals fleeing Turkey that will percolate in Europe first. Come on Apech, this is a busted flush. Get us the hell out of it.

Good point. Seeing is seeing ; believing is believing. They aren't the same thing. It is an example of a philosophical idea that is integrated into someone's mind without discrimination and a great example of the logical fallacy of cliche thinking. It's opposite might be helpful : all that glitters is not gold :-)

I said nothing of the sort. It is nothing to do with what I value in comparison with what others value. I'm not making an absolutist statement. I'm saying that you know the risks that you take. I don't ride a motorcycle because I think I will live a long life, I do it because it has a certain value to me and though it has a high risk factor I'm aware of it and accept it. I might equally take a risk to climb a tree to get apples, or to set out to sea to get fish. However reality is reality. Gravity, height, Sea, storm, tyre grip, other motorists are all examples of that objective reality. We all make the judgement call if we are thinking and not evading. However, an alcoholic, a drug user, a gambler, a sex addict is not acting that way. They are attempting not to think, to blot out the mind and bury it in distracting activities. This is hedonistic activity. They obtain pleasure before value, pleasure at any cost. I ride my motorcycle because I enjoy the skill that is required to handle it. I have learned to master it like an instrument, a paint brush, a branch of mathematics. The pleasure comes from the attainment of those values knowing reality can kill me. I do not simply chug down a bottle of whisky in order to remain in mindless oblivion, or get a nose full of cocaine. There is no skill in those activities. The value obtained is that of the pleasure of not being present. Climbing Everest is a mind present challenge of skill, endurance and fitness, it's a balance between reality and action. However, the drug addict is an extreme version of evasion. Evasion occurs in smaller, less obvious places. Petty theft would be one of those instances. People justify helping themselves to something from their employers business and justify the theft. What they are saying is that theft is justifiable and therefore any kind of theft is fine, but they know that it isn't. If the employer turned up on their doorstep to search the house, they would be horrified. They don't tell the employer that they are entitled to the goods, they begin a cycle of lies and deceit in order for the employer not to discover the theft. However, even if they get away with, trust is lost and they feel eyes watching them and have to get rid of the stolen goods. Maybe the employer sacks them and now they have to find another job knowing full well that any other employer might find out about the theft. We can look at aesthetics next :-) that certain arrangements and proportions are also objective realities which appeal/or repel the human mind. Even in art there is objective reality at work.

Righteo, but what has that got to do with the price of fish ? :-)

I know you meant it in a kind of humorous way, but the thing with objectivism isn't any kind of gospel. It isn't saying that you obey some authority, it just says to use your mind and stop evading or acting ignorantly. It really isn't a big deal. You don't have to perform practices, read texts, go to church, whisper mantras, anoint yourself with oils any any other kind of ritual. Just act as a full human being.

No.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/12/leaked-cables-1-8-million-migrants-would-be-a-drop-in-the-ocean-compared-to-turkey/#disqus_thread and it gets worse. Simply put, our Government is lying their arses off.

As far as it goes that's one leg of an argument but it omits the basic fact, that we cannot control immigration from the EU as long as we remain. That's all that is required. Cameron has not controlled immigration from outside the EU, but he can be forced to do so. People come to the UK because it's the UK. If we allow uncontrolled immigration we will face increasing strains on all our public services. It isn't just the numbers, it's the language and cultural barriers. If everyone who came to Britain was fully fluent in British language and culture, then there would be far fewer issues, but they aren't, they speak multiple languages and have great difficulty integrating. It's also true that immigrants often have larger families, so we get a gradual crowding of British people. The problem with mass uncontrolled immigration is that it can turn Britiain into Bangladesh or Romania. The purpose of people coming here is that we aren't Bangladesh or Romania. The U.K. Government is desperate to import tax payers-as they see it and voters. They have run out of funds and are trying to hide their economic mismanagement from the public. Immigrants, at best, taking out hospitals/schools and roads are a net cost to the economy, but they boost apparent GDP and that's the fudge the treasury is applying. The truth is that productivity is falling as GDP is rising and the Government apparently has no answer to that conundrum, but they are lying, they know very well what's going on. Every year the immigrant population is worth one city the size of Bristol. We would need to build a home every 4 minutes. Britain is one of the most crowded countries in Europe already. We have neither sufficient schools, hospitals, houses, roads, interpreters, social workers, or jobs to cope with this kind of flood. Whilst we don't take action to curtail EU immigration, neither will we do so to curtail ex EU immigration. Get one and nail 2 birds with one stone.

So you are now voting to leave.

I've no sense of your argument Stosh. Values are chosen-if you wish-subjectively (I would argue that they are only subjective when compared to others chosen values, but that's another argument). However-whatever your values-reality determines the validity of your choice. Someone may choose to cram their veins with heroin and to steal from their friends and family to maintain their habit. Heroin isn't necessary for the maintenance of life and it most definitely causes damage to both the body and mind. The world is not full of deliriously happy drug addicts is it ? They take drugs because they feel there is no alternative and their life often turns into a nightmare of spiralling collapse and debauchery. The addict has chosen the value of drug addiction and damage because his own life has a lower value. He wishes to numb his mind, to feel blissful and without concern for the realities of life. More than likely he will destroy his life completely in the process. The addict knows exactly what he is doing, but he evades the direct acceptance of the damage he is doing in return for oblivion.

Do you know anything about British history ? How, as a trading nation we are ever reliant on our maritime exports which were constantly under attack-as were those of other peaceful trading countries. Britains navy secured the sea lanes by attrition. We destroyed pirates and brigands, we allowed trade to flourish across the globe and for all nations to grow wealthy.

Would you like to reflect on what that poem means and its context ?

Anyone listened to that YouTube video I posted ? Might well make you remainers reconsider how well the propaganda is working. Still, I had a nice younger Labour chap with two small children in tow appear on my doorstep today seeking a leave poster.

The peace and survival of everyone on earth is the stake: https://youtu.be/rHH-Cv0xSpA

It is objectively real. You make the wrong judgement on your desert Island and reality will punish that decision to the point of death. Justice does not say that you will make the right decisions, it means you do not doubt the decisions and do not regret the results. You know you did your very best without any sense of remorse. Even if you fail, your mind is free from the additional mental suffering which is the result of evasion and chosen ignorance. Reality IS objectively real. The result of your choices are objectively real. Your emotions are objectively real. There is no escape from yourself and that is also objective reality. You can make stories up if you wish, but you can't cover up the emotional response to objective reality without a great deal of additional energy and that begins a cycle of ever more effort to paper over a network of ever widening emotional cracks. Moral man knows this. He realises that it's easier to face reality and to act morally because it leaves him free to correct his errors of judgement. The evader is like a man in quicksand, the harder he struggles, the deeper he sinks. The moral evader is his own prison warden, he creates his own mental paralysis through trying to keep all the plates spinning and becomes useless to himself. This isn't new of course, religious moralists have preached a set of ethical codes and we see that in the Ten Commandments. However where objectivism differers is that it does not rely on an external authority for moral guidance. Instead, every man is capable of choosing his own moral code based on the exact same objective reality that everybody else has. It makes him able to act instantaneously because the philosophy leaves no room for self doubt. The moral man knows the values he desires are the right values and he wastes no time, or mental effort in going after them. The result is that the values he obtains bring him happiness. They do not produce guilt or remorse, because they are aligned with reality. The thing about objectivism is that it stops the nagging mind fretting over itself and grows wings of confidence and instant action. Isn't that what was always the aim of many forms of spiritualism "stillness in action" "Do no harm" ? This aims are internal as well as external. So, there is no mind/body dichotomy and everything is aligned. It is far simpler that spiritual practices because it utilises what we already have-our minds. Instead of trying to banish thought as if it is the enemy, instead we realise that we must use our minds more properly. We must stop filling them with junk and begin to straighten ourselves out. That way we can begin to unfold our crumpled up consciousness and allow it to expand, to become a far more effective tool for ourselves and everybody else who takes that same course. It builds defence against the irrational and allows the use of force ONLY when it is required and takes no pleasure or value from that action.