Karl

That's what's referred to as moral hazard. Advertising 'free stuff' is as much a problem with the indigenous population as it is the immigrant, although it should be said that most of them have probably paid in a fair old wad of cash over the years. Being overweight, smoking, drinking and taking no exercise is not a consideration, just like the USSR, everyone is considered equal and the Government does the rationing. It's a useless system, but that's what we have and that's what immigrants will utilise on the same basis.

Same thing. It's just a relative measurement. Tomorrow is the concept of a 24 hour period. Yet the Earth just spins around and around.

Didn't you say the entire universe IS space ?

It isn't the main thrust of the 'leave' argument anyway, I was replying to CT. Where it is a problem is public services such as housing, hospitals and schools. I'm not anti-immigration. I believe it's a very good thing and we need it, however not uncontrolled immigration and not immigration in such great chunks that it is causing problems in areas with high influxes of migrant workers. I can't help thinking it feels exactly like it used to be in British companies in which the managers got the white table cloths and oak panelled toilets and the rest were expected to live in crap. If you can afford private health, to live in an upmarket area and send the kids to private schools, then I don't imagine immigration is an issue. However, when you are condemned to live with the NHS, Comprehnsive schools and renting, then things are a lot bleaker. Its OK for the multiculturalist liberal living in a nice, expensive area of Islington, but they need to consider the family struggling to get by on a housing estate in Bradford. Controlled immigration is fine. It's means that public services/housing can expand as the wealth increases, but dropping huge immigrant numbers on struggling areas is a recipe for nationalism, racism and violence. The other problem is that despite Osbornes assertion that immigration is not affecting public services and housing, the fact is we are short of homes and the defecit and debt ARE increasing. If it was true that immigrants are a massive boom for the economy then why isn't the defecit falling ?

That's always the danger when you plant a big poster in your window advertising 'free stuff' to anyone who wants it, for as long as they want it. There are those who wish to reduce their countries to the kind of drudgery experienced under soviet Russia, particularly Britain. I think they harbour a kind of inverted snobbery grudge with a tendency towards Nihlism. They like to mention that Britain doesn't have an empire, isn't a world power, has been a bunch of white invaders who deserve the fate of being over run by those it supposedly invaded. What's worse is that I used to be one of those people. I despised the whole notion of sovereignty and patriotism. I couldn't wait for the white middle classes and the wealthy to be brought down several rungs and end their isolated, priviliged little lives. Hands up, that was me ten years ago. It's a terrible, irrationally selfish attitude which values nothing, cares for nothing and has no ambition beyond jealousy.

Coconut dangerous much more.

If you remove the emotive 'fret' then, unfortunately for your thesis, being a human being means we must plan for the future. We have no choice, we cannot live in the moment like an animal. We aren't automatic. That you wish you were does not mean you are. Just by saying 'I want to live in the moment' is the proof that you cannot. An animal cannot choose, it just does, a human must choose. You cannot enjoy tomorrow today quite obviously. This does not preclude enjoying the moment, one should always do that. That's the point of living, to gain a value according to ones virtues and then to enjoy the pleasure of gaining it. However, we must continue to plan ahead, because that is our nature. We have the capacity and necessity to choose, we haven't the luxury of being automatic. I think you are confusing two things. I enjoy every moment just as you do. I don't fret for the future, I accept that I must plan ahead and I don't fret that this is a necessity. In that statement you should see what perhaps wasn't obvious before-I don't fear the future, instead what I fear is to deny the necessity for that planning-to evade what is real.

Because the EU was specifically designed that way. It wasn't ever supposed to be a democracy. If you want to create a rats nest, then you need plenty of food, bedding and a total lack of any rat catchers, or rat competition. That's what the EU is. That is why the US is desperate to get TTIP through the gates-one more big fat rat to join all the other slimey fuckers. Of course shitty politicians are worldwide, and our country has its fair share. Despite all the hurrahs for uncontrolled immigration our debt burden is increasing. The only reason we aren't going down the plug hole like Europe is that we still had a democracy able to vote out the Euro and Schengen. Once we vote to stay, you can wave good buy to any semblance of democracy. At present we can reject such things as the Euro and Schengen. Come the 23rd of May, make no mistake, if we vote to remain then we vote away the last barriers we have to throwing out crap politicians and we welcome in the whole EU project. Anyone who isn't in the EU club house should be voting to leave. Even those in receipt of the EU funding bribes should realise that those bribes can be switched off just as easily at any time. If you aren't in the DAVOS club and its world elite, then to vote to remain is effectively voting for serfdom.

You didn't miss anything.

Yes, the U.K. Government has been useless in controlling immigration, but, we can vote them out of office, we can't vote the EU out of office. We can't control our borders even if we had a Government tasked with doing so. Life doesn't work like 'show me a perfectly planned future'. If you are waiting for someone to plan a perfect life for you, then try an astrologer. You have to make your own way. When a young adult leaves home they do not know what they will face, but they leave with the attitude that things will improve by the effort they apply. I'm sure you have learned that by now, or are you really living in cloud cuckoo land because you don't strike me as the type that believes in fairy tales. Our future inside the EU is as Unknown as it is outside the EU, except, outside the EU we control our own economy, borders and laws. Inside the EU we have to abide by an anti-democratic group of failed bureaucrats that have been rejected by their own electorate and are turning Europe into 1970s Britain.

1) yet you are using identity to say 'all' which mans you aren't part of a collective consciousness, but a real, independent, conscious entity. 2) if you don't know anything then you can't know what you claim to know. 3) I have nothing to forgive. I am perfectly integrated, knowing what values I hold and desire to gain and the virtues by which I will use to hold and gain them. I don't forgive anyone because I have no need to, they are either of value to me and I to them or they are inconsequential. If they oppose my values and seek to harm me then I will retaliate. My behaviour is perfectly aligned with my words but yours is not. You are evading. You may do it for a short time, or for ever, but you are incapable of disguising the truth to yourself. You may feel a fuzzy kind of comfort that comes along with abdication from the mind, but it will lead one to a sense of uneasy creeping guilt over ones life.

It isn't 'subjective interpretations'. Once you have admitted that's what you believe, then you have revoked your right to continue the argument. In fact you have made it plain there is no proof, because reality is subjective and if that is true, then you should question why you need to continue trying to make an argument in the light of you believing everything to be subjective. You are using reason and reality in order to prove there is no reason and reality. The 3 questions all men must ask is: where am I ? How do I know it ? What should I do ? All you are doing is to evade those questions Bud. Yet the fact that you continue to try and argue proves that you don't really believe what you are saying, you just prefer it to be true. You wish it to be true, because it frees you from facing the truth. You can live in your fuzzy little world of make believe, you can squeeze your eyes shut and block you ears, but the tiger is still going to eat you.

It's not a lie. You don't live over here so you probably aren't aware of the strain on public services, housing and culture. We woukd control our borders and could enact an Australian points system instead of the ludicrous situation we are having to endure. You won't find anything from the remain side to tell us how a creaking monstrosity with a failing economy and an undemocratic leadership demanding more money from Brotain every year will make Britain function at all. There are always risks to staying and leaving. It's a false dichotomy. They do not feel threatened by change, they feel suffocated by stagnation and autocracy. Every remainer is terrified by change and that's why the Government is using its fear tactics. There is a whole world to embrace and remainers are the little Englanders too frightened of leaving nurse for fear of something worse. Remainers shoukd grow a pair and look outward and not introvert into a dying, defunct customs union designed for the world of the 50s and propping up the wealthy and lazy.

If change is fine, then it's fine in or out. Most people are voting to remain in the EU because they fear change, but will get it anyway. However, within the EU we have no control of that change, outside we drive our own car. I don't know what you mean by 'greater' or that 'Britain isn't a world power'. We have a global world, staying in the EU is being part of something smaller, not greater. As to a federation, well that's why the USSR broke up. I don't see the significance of Britain 'not being a world power' it just doesn't mean anything, we are a trading nation and the fifth largest economy in the world. In terms of being a large economy, we are very significant-and beginning to show additional growth which is outstripping the EU and many other nations. If Britain wants to grow it must get rid of EU little Englander thinking and embrace the globe. Clearly I don't see being shackled to a rotting corpse the best option. It might have been in 1950, but the world has moved forward and the EU has not. It is stuck in a time warp which will eventually destroy it. If we leave it will likely collapse and then join the rest of the world and grow again. Unless we leave it will remain in depression and stagnation and us along with it-great for the corporates and cronies, not so good for the talented entrepreneur. Sometimes you have to do the kindest thing, even if it's the hardest thing. If we don't vote to leave we will have to go down with the sinking ship and then Europe will split anyway, but perhaps in a hell fire of revolution or worse.

These are the kind of slugs that represent the more gregarious of the 0.1% for whom Brexit is a risk to their sordid lifestyle. They despise the little people whom they believe are too stupid to know when they are being played. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-29/bill-clinton-was-here-elite-one-percent%E2%80%99s-orgy-island-exposed Sent from my iPad

The global elite are seeing the financial guillotine getting closer. They are terrified of any kind of instability breaking up their cosy lifestyles which has been built on the spreading of fear of financial disaster to the 99% whilst convincing them that they have everything under control. They are stealing our money, destroying our lifestyles and ruining our futures whilst giving a few crumbs off the lords table. Brexit might create the chain reaction that exposes the fraudulent criminality of their massive scam. If Germany gets a hair cut then that damage will spread to the big global investment banks such as Goldman and Morgan's. They will have to liquidate their stocks, bonds and real estate assets. It will create a viscious deflationary spiral that will directly fife the those who have drawn the greatest advantage.

You realise 'voting to stay' isn't a vote for the status quo ? The EU is embarking on 'ever closer' union regardless of the British vote. Indeed, if we vote to remain, because of Camerons useless negotiations he has given away the British veto on any further interference in the EU march towards a fully federal state. That means on the 23rd we could well find ourselves in the EU but severely marginalised, unless we accept full Schengen and the adopt the Euro. A lot of people are looking at the amount we pay into the club and the money that THEY decide to give us back and the pet EU supporting projects THEY decide to spend the money on. However, what seems to have slipped their minds is that it is the EU that dictates how much we pay and whether we get anything back. If the EU decides that because of our greater growth, that we must contribute more money and get less back, then that's what will happen. This is before going through the sovereignty issues: we can't control European immigration, make our laws, decide on who we want to negotiate trade agreements with. Or the anti-democratic nature of the leadership, or the fact that it has become a club for big crony corporates-Goldman Sachs/JP Morgan are backing the remain campaign with hard money. The crony nature of the businesses that support remain are ensuring smaller businesses cannot compete, they are also preventing third world countries from selling cheaper alternative food within the union. This prevents third world countries from finding their feet, encourages corrupt rulers and means we have to contribute a lot of aid money to prop up these corrupt ductatorships. If none of those things are important to you, then one last thought, even the 'remainers' have the consensus that the EU is not fit for purpose and needs serious change, yet, despite 40 years of successive UK government promising to 'influence' Brussels, we have lost 78 out of 78 votes on things that we disagreed with. Even with the threat of leaving Cameron could change nothing significantly and managed to give away the Veto which might have a leat slowed things down. In 1970 it was Britain which was the poor man of Europe, but now things have gone full circle. This time it's Europe that's losing its way, that has a declining economy, NIRP, restrictions on cash use, high unemployment (50% amongst the youth of Greece-a country that the EU has destroyed. There is the rise of the far right and left, continuous riots, strikes and instability. Europe is burning and Britain is in a better position, to stay in shackles us to a corpse.

:-) It reminds me of a conversation I had with a Catholic Priest when I asked him to point at God.

The phenomena of conceptualisation and what it means to be a conscious human being.

Space/time/distance are not in the universe. They are relationships that humans have with the elements contained within the universe. Planets aren't conscious so they can't define relationship. Man measures the universe as so many years old but the universe has no age, it is the universe in which things occur through causality. Humans are aware of the causality but it means nothing to the universe. When you die what happens to your awareness of time/distance/space, that's how the universe is.

A podcast I listened to where I came across the Trivium.

IT was a joke, 'band aid' you know 'feel the worms, let them know it's Christmas time'.

I explain that whole thing in O101, that proof Isnt really possible in a single sentence CT, it has to built from the fundamental axioms. That is one of the reasons I've been doing it, as it saves having to repeat an incomplete proof which, will be quite rightly challenged. What you describe is perception. That's an automatic integration. It's easier perhaps to explain why your understanding is flawed if you compare the cognitive function of an animal vs man. An animal has no conceptual facility so it percieves ONLY what it's senses perceive. It reacts in an automatic way. If it sees prey, or a predator its sees only that and recognises it. It can't conceive of classes of predators and predators beyond its immediate world view. Where we differ is that we must conceptualise in order to survive and it isn't an automatic process. This faculty allows you to conceptualise objects and you can conceptualise the object in a state of causal change and as a non solid mass of spinning energies. The problem is that you have to relate the conceptual back to the concrete. It's impossible to put your hand through the space that you conceptualise in the object, and though you may conceptualise the ever changing nature of a nut and bolt, the reality is that if you wish to use them to couple two pieces of metal you must accept the reality which exists as it is perceived. All proofs are therefore directly related to the concrete reality as it is perceived. Just by asking me to provide proof you have to engage with existent reality. We can't prove anything beyond what we can see, it must relate directly to reality.

The point is we are the ones choosing them. If you park a car, the space required is for the enclosing envelope of the car and other objects objects which could interfere with parking. If we are looking to measure the space between two molecules then we have chosen a different set of specifics. We point to the sky and say space because of the specific objects of our bodies in relation to a whole range of solid bodies planets, stars, moons. The relationship is defined by our relationship in terms of our own size. If we were buried alive in a coffin things would change- now the space exists but the specific object is the coffin casing.

Or 'the measure of distance between objects' Yes, the perception/measure seems valid to query. Anyone think Its becoming clear that 'space' is hard to define because it is really just a specific spacial relationship between specific objects. I do like the Buddhist version and can't argue against it.