Infolad1

Hi, Everyone, The next time I post about this subject and Neidan in general, I'll create a new thread. These circular arguments and ad hominem attacks are helping no one. And I'm here to help. Cheers!

Hi, Wandelaar, Fair enough. It is a lot. Here's Dr. Levin's site with his papers: https://www.drmichaellevin.org/publications/ Here's his journal: https://home.liebertpub.com/publications/bioelectricity/647 Cheers!

Yep. You start with 1 pound and work your way up. Cheers!

Hi, Zhongyongdaoist, COOL!! I'll download it and read it this week. Much thanks! Cheers!

"Hey, Hey, My, My. This Neigong thread will NEVER Die!" Apologies to Neil Young. Time for a music break! Neil Young - Hey Hey, My My (Live at Farm Aid 1985) Everyone take care. I've got to get ready to use the skills that pay the bills. I'll post again this week with the next part when I have time. I'll just create a new thread called "Siddhis and How to Get Them - The Full Story", if that's okay with everyone. Cheers!

Girls, GIRLS! You're BOTH pretty! Feeling IS Chi/Qi. If I pinch you and you go "OW!!", THAT's Qi. Qi is nothing but ENERGY folks. And as my materials engineer friend loves to tell me constantly, energy has MANY expressions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy "Common forms of energy include the kinetic energy of a moving object, the potential energy stored by an object (for instance due to its position in a field), the elastic energy stored in a solid object, chemical energy associated with chemical reactions, the radiant energy carried by electromagnetic radiation, and the internal energy contained within a thermodynamic system. All living organisms constantly take in and release energy." All of the above is Qi. Qi isn't some woo-woo, Dragonball Z force power. (Although...MAYBE if I could get one of Goku's Gravity chambers, I could more quickly reach my final form!!...) Qi is VERY real. Healing Qi is far Infrared that we emit and can build up. When I fajin someone across the floor, I'm utilizing the kinetic energy created by the physics principle of transfer of momentum, and proper structural alignment, to do It. This is ALSO Qi. Without Energy/Qi, this vehicle we use to get around in 3-dimensional space is just a dead shell of atoms that quickly loses its structural Integrity and decomposes. With enough energy, Qi, this body can live for hundreds of years. It's an open system. Entropy can't occur as long as enough energy is put back to maintain order in the system. This is something that Dr. Leonard Hayflick never got. That's why he could never Imagine the body living for hundreds of years. Thanks to Epigenetic Reprogramming, this will be possible in about 10 years. I'll talk about this in a later post. A lot of problems occur with these systems we discuss because people have Ideas that aren't actually about what's happening. And they never test them, so it's just endless arguments. Jets vs, Sharks. Jets vs Sharks - West Side Story I hope this helps. Any questions, just let me know. Cheers!

Hi, Wandelaar, Actually, what most people call "I" is actually our persona, known as the personality. It's also called the ego and incorrectly called consciousness by scientists and pundits. It's also incorrectly called the self. A lot of mischief is created from incorrect usage and understanding of these terms. Although these words just point to the actual reality, they need to point in the right direction. The ego/personality is just a collection of thoughts, images, and conditioned responses to stimuli. A mental fiction of the left brain. Basically, we're video game characters and completely unaware of this fact. That's what makes Kurzweil talking about uploading his "mind" and "Consciousness" into a computer so funny. Our mind is non-local. we're NEVER in these bodies. As an analogy, our brain is our smartphone and our mind is the radio signal to the phone. Consciousness, the actual "I", is immaterial. It can't be made out of that which it creates. So the AI folks will just create digital zombies, with no actual consciousness. But they'll function just like humans function already, so they'll be "perfect". That which is consciousness in us, that looks at the thoughts, images, and sensations, is the actual "controller". We have a limited decision space, as long as we continue to identify with the person. Gotta follow the script. We can't muck up the story. just say your lines! This is all any of us are doing until we begin to wake up. The word etymology tells us all of this. Person https://www.etymonline.com/word/persona ..." directly from Latin persona "human being, person, personage; a part in a drama, assumed character," originally "a mask, a false face," such as those of wood or clay, covering the whole head, worn by the actors in the later Roman theater. OED offers the general 19c. explanation of persona as "related to" Latin personare "to sound through" (i.e. the mask as something spoken through and perhaps amplifying the voice), "but the long o makes a difficulty ...." Klein and Barnhart say it is possibly borrowed from Etruscan phersu "mask." De Vaan has no entry for it." If the persona gets siddhis, then hilarity ensues. Because our person is a perpetual screwup, possessed by thoughts that aren't real and mindless animal (animating) impulses. What could go wrong? What do people always say? "Who's perfect?" "I'm only human". "Love me as I am". Yadda, Yadda, Yadda. Our best bet is to focus on that which is aware. The real I that only witnesses. Then the siddhis, both minor and major, will come, along with the wisdom to use them. Or not. Cheers!

Hi, Silent Thunder, Thanks, man. Appreciated. Yeah. Niebauer's work is right up there. Great stuff. If you loved the works of those gentlemen, you'll love his. All is Awareness. Cheers!

Hi, Zhongyongdaoist, Thanks, man. Appreciated. I try to show people the things they need to know so that they don't waste valuable time. I've been VERY blessed to have fantastic teachers. Information theory is AMAZING. Here are a couple of books that I have on the subject. Programming the Universe: A Quantum Computer Scientist Takes on the Cosmos https://a.co/d/el4wLql Decoding the Universe: How the New Science of Information Is Explaining Everything in the Cosmos, from Our Brains to Black Holes https://a.co/d/j5IJlEH Now I've just got to find time to read them all! Cheers!

Hi, Maddie, First things first. Debunkers are not skeptics. Debunkers are mostly Secular Humanists and adherents of the Humanist Manifesto, which doesn't allow for "Paranormal" or "Supernatural" events. Basically most of the stuff practiced by people on this forum. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism Humanism is a philosophical stance that emphasizes the individual and social potential, and agency of human beings, whom it considers the starting point for serious moral and philosophical inquiry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_humanism Religious humanism or ethical humanism is an integration of nontheistic humanist ethical philosophy with congregational rites and community activity which center on human needs, interests, and abilities. Self-described religious humanists differ from secular humanists mainly in that they regard the nontheistic humanist life stance as a non-supernatural "religion" and organizing using a congregational model. Humanist Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Manifesto Humanist Manifesto is the title of three manifestos laying out a humanist worldview. They are the original Humanist Manifesto (1933, often referred to as Humanist Manifesto I), the Humanist Manifesto II (1973), and Humanism and Its Aspirations (2003, a.k.a. Humanist Manifesto III). The Manifesto originally arose from religious humanism, though secular humanists also signed it. Secular Humanism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism Secular humanism is a philosophy, belief system, or life stance that embraces human reason, logic, secular ethics, and philosophical naturalism, while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, and superstition as the basis of morality and decision-making. Some of the affirmations (beliefs) in the Original 1933 version of the Manifesto are: FIRST: Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created. SECOND: Humanism believes that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as a result of a continuous process. THIRD: Holding an organic view of life, humanists find that the traditional dualism of mind and body must be rejected. FOURTH: Humanism recognizes that man’s religious culture and civilization, as clearly depicted by anthropology and history, are the product of a gradual development due to his interaction with his natural environment and with his social heritage. The individual born into a particular culture is largely molded by that culture. FIFTH: Humanism asserts that the nature of the universe depicted by modern science makes unacceptable any supernatural or cosmic guarantees of human values. Obviously, humanism does not deny the possibility of realities as yet undiscovered, but it does insist that the way to determine the existence and value of any and all realities is by means of intelligent inquiry and by the assessment of their relations to human needs. Religion must formulate its hopes and plans in the light of the scientific spirit and method. SIXTH: We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of “new thought”. List of secular humanists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_secular_humanists James Randi was a Secular Humanist. He was also a dishonest liar. James Randi: Debunking The King Of The Debunkers https://www.soulask.com/james-randi-debunking-the-king-of-the-debunkers/ The funny part is that they've created a belief system just as rigid and dogmatic as the ones they hate. But I digress. I try not to assume when talking to people. People think a lot of things are "true" that aren't, including them. That's why I provided a definition of evidence from a dictionary in my reply to Silent Thunder so that we had a mutual point to start at. Here it is again: "Our senses are filters for us to navigate in 3-dimensional space, not actual determinants of reality. This is why Western empiricism, upon which the scientific method is built, only works up to a point. It's why the scientific method only works up to a point. empiricism /ĕm-pîr′ĭ-sĭz″əm/ noun The view that experience, especially of the senses, is the only source of knowledge. (Emphasis mine) Employment of empirical methods, as in science. An empirical conclusion. Evidence: 1. UNCOUNTABLE NOUN Evidence is anything that you see, experience, read, or are told that causes you to believe that something is true or has really happened. (Emphasis mine) Ganley said he'd seen no evidence of widespread fraud. [+ of/for] There is a lot of evidence that stress is partly responsible for disease. To date, there is no evidence to support this theory. Synonyms: proof, grounds, data, demonstration More Synonyms of evidence 2. UNCOUNTABLE NOUN Evidence is the information that is used in a court of law to try to prove something. Evidence is obtained from documents, objects, or witnesses. [law] The evidence against him was purely circumstantial. ...enough evidence for a successful prosecution. 3. See give evidence 4. VERB If a particular feeling, ability, or attitude is evidenced by something or someone, it is seen or felt. [formal] He's wise in other ways too, as evidenced by his reason for switching from tennis to golf. She was not calculating and evidenced no specific interest in money. [VERB noun] Synonyms: show, prove, reveal, display More Synonyms of evidence Our senses are not always accurate and don't show us all of reality as a survival mechanism." So you keep talking about objective reality as if that's the only level of reality that exists when science at the beginning of the 20th Century proved that it doesn't, to their eternal horror. They're STILL trying to fix the "Measurement Problem". Objective Reality May Not Exist at All, Quantum Physicists Say https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a40460495/objective-reality-may-not-exist/ You said: "What reason can you give to demonstrate that what you think is true or correct?" It's never about what any of us "think". The most any of us do is associative thinking if even that. Association (psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_(psychology) Old saying, "Talk Don't Cook The Food." But let's start from where you're coming from. I give people information that they can research and test. Certain things in these practices can be quantified in a Western Scientific paradigm and some currently can't. Direct experience is key to all of It. A number of people on here have said that subjective experience can't be externally real. That's actually not true. People have "dreams" where a dead relative tells them where they stashed some money. They look and it's there. Thousands of people worldwide have encounters with things that exhibit "physical" traits and then dematerialize on a daily basis. Humanoid Encounters 1985-1989: The Others amongst Us (Humanoid Encounters the Others Amongst Us) https://a.co/d/5r1M9hB (Note: The above book is part of a multi-volume set, starting with reports at the beginning of recorded history). We just had Congressional Hearings about some of these things. Sen. Chuck Schumer: The U.S. Government Has "A Great Deal Of Information" About UFOs That It Has "Withheld From Congress" For Decades https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/12/14/sen_chuck_schumer_the_us_government_has_a_great_deal_of_information_about_ufos_that_it_has_withheld_from_congress_for_decades.html I'm doing a post about some of this information that's been declassified (and that we can test!) by the weekend. "Reality" is a lot bigger and a lot stranger than any of us can imagine. The only way to find out is from doing the actual work to find out and not a discussion. I give my students some theory and then we get to work. They prove what I'm saying to themselves. And then half of them get freaked out and leave. And this is "low-level" stuff! Piezoelctrical effects from Qi! An Intellectual discussion is not the same as direct experience. That's how I provide "objective" evidence. Cheers!

I just read the posts that have happened since I wrote part 3 of my Siddhis explanation. This thread has deteriorated due to a few people who will never be satisfied with the replies they get. It's also unacceptable to have older members, who should know better and are supposedly teachers, replying to new people on here terribly, as I've just read. There's something wrong with you. If you want to prove what Rudi does is real, then put your money up. I'll be paying him the $400 this year. I'm always down to learn something new. I saw him talking on Trebor 7's YouTube channel. He knows his stuff. This is Trebor 7 doing some impossible things. BIOKINESIS - Moving Trees & Weeds This is the Interview that he did with Rudi: Neigong Instructor Reveals Secret Energy Cultivation Methods, Dantian Activation & More! I paid $2K to Master Tu to learn Iron Body and Iron Crotch Neigong. From his training, I've lifted 120 lbs. with my privates, taken punches in demos that bounce off of me with no pain, and turbocharged all of my cultivation training. So I've proven to myself and others that it's "real". I've taught others how to do It ( And yes, they paid. When you pay, you pay attention. You don't want to pay, fine. But enough already with the complaining about it. Don't do It). I remember Master Tu asked us to go to Home Depot and get some solid metal bars and rods. He gave us the measurements. By the end of the weekend, he'd taught us enough Iron body to resist blows and bend the rods in the pit of our necks. He had us buy two dozen eggs and did light body practice, standing on them while painting a picture of Laozi. Then he chopped the bars into Vs. Both Master Tu and my Sifu can do Faqi. I've both seen and felt it. Once you understand what the body can do, it's no big deal. Western science is just now finding out about the amazing properties of the body's Fascial system. Master Tu pulled a small plane with his privates for National Geographic. When we asked why, he said "Marketing." Here's a photo of some of Master Tu's students lifting: Those numbers are the poundage. As my Sifu has said to me and others countless times, "There are some very interesting people in the world who can do some very interesting things." Doing the standing postures in coordination with the breathing creates a piezoelectrical effect and eventually a pyroelectrical effect. I'm doing a thread on it this week. There's nothing fake about what Rudi can do. People on here complaining have just never experienced it or learned how to do It. So all they can do is speculate and belittle, like what's happening now. After a minute, your best bet is to just ignore them. Their mind's made up. An actual direct experience of Faqi wouldn't even matter. To demonstrate this, let me tell you folks a story. Back in 2013 or so, I had learned Master Tu's Iron Crotch techniques. At the time I could lift 50 lbs. (It's a satin cloth attached to the root of your boys that's used to do the lift). Our school was doing a demo of our various forms and at the end, I came out with a satin skirt on, did some Iron Body with my steel broom, and then lifted the 50 lbs. We had a guy come up from the audience, and I opened the skirt so that he could see that I was actually lifting it. He looked, looked at me, gave a thumbs up, and sat back down. The next day a friend of mine came up to me and said, "You know that the guys in the audience said that what you did was fake." I was shocked. "But we had someone from the audience come up!" "They said that he was in on It." I was very upset about this, at the time. My friend, who was female, then said to me, "Don't worry about It. They're sitting there with their woman, watching a guy lift 50 lbs. with his Johnson. They can't do It. So what ELSE are they going to say?" Each of us lives in our own reality box. Some people's reality boxes are just smaller than others. Cheers!

Siddhis and How to Get Them Part II My first post in answer to Wandelaar's question laid out the foundation of what are we're actually talking about when we're asking about obtaining Siddhis. Here's one way to get there. DISCLAIMER I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. I don't know anyone's physical, mental, or spiritual condition on here. So PLEASE check with your doctor first, before doing ANY of these breathing practices. I am not liable or responsible for anything that happens to you, as a result of pursuing these practices. If you do drugs or are on any type of medication, to control mental illness, leave this stuff alone, please. Contraindications: People with the following medical conditions must never apply Buteyko breathing without first consulting a doctor and an experienced Buteyko practitioner. Arterial Aneurysm Hemorrhagic Stroke Thrombosis Current Cancer Treatment Recent Heart Attack within twelve weeks Brain Tumour Uncontrolled Hypertension (high blood pressure) History of serious cardiac rhythm disorder (unless pacemaker fitted) Severe renal failure (includes dialysis) Uncontrolled hyperthyroidism Sickle cell disease Acute schizophrenia Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD) with cor pulmonale Pregnancy (first trimester) People with the following conditions must take caution when applying the Buteyko Method. Again, always seek help from their Doctor and an experienced Buteyko practitioner, rather than using self-help tools. Diabetes, especially insulin controlled Mild/ controlled hypertension Thyroid disease Angina / previous heart attack Epilepsy Past history of schizophrenia Reduced kidney function Pregnancy (second and third trimester) The above applies to ANY breathing method (Khumbhakas, Taixi, Tummo, etc.) Now with that out of the way... This is Konstantin Pavlovich Buteyko Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteyko_method (Note: Wikipedia has a very strong anti-alternative medicine bias. There's not a lot of money to be made with this method, so the research is sparse. Most comments on its efficacy are anecdotal testimonials, so be aware of this. As an additional anecdote, I utilize it daily and have found it to be effective on a physical, mental, and spiritual level, but take this with a grain of salt). The Buteyko method was originally developed in the 1950s by physiologist Konstantin Buteyko in the Soviet Union. Buteyko was a Ukrainian psychologist, who moved to Russia in his 20s. He was born in Ukraine and studied at Kyiv Politechnics. The first official study into the effectiveness of the Buteyko Method on asthma was undertaken in 1968 at the Leningrad Institute of Pulmonology. The second, held at the First Moscow Institute of Pediatric Diseases in April 1980, eventually led the head of the Ministry of Health to issue an order (No 591) for the implementation of the Buteyko method in the treatment of bronchial asthma. Later, this method was introduced to Australia, New Zealand, Britain, and the United States, where it has received increasing exposure. Anecdotal reports of life-changing improvements attributed to the Buteyko method abound on the Internet and in books. Buteyko took the original yogic text and systematized the breathing practices (Pranayama Breath/Prana Restraint/Yama) into the method that he created and taught. How does the Buteyko Method work? You learn to reduce your breathing rate through various exercises. You test your progress using what he calls the Control Pause, which is the suspension of your breath. It works through a combination of the Bohr Effect, Intermittent Hypoxic Breathing, and the molecule Hypoxic Inducible Factor (HIF). According to the Bohr Effect, the buildup of CO2 during breath retention (hypoxia) triggers the release of oxygen. Oxygen is attached to hemoglobin in the blood and is then unloaded into the tissues. Hemoglobin is a protein that carries oxygen to the tissues and CO2 as waste back to the heart and lungs for removal. Most people have a blood oxygen saturation level of 95-98 percent, which sounds high. However, this number is only a measure of oxygen in the blood—not the tissues, where oxygen is needed to energize and repair. Once oxygen is unloaded from hemoglobin due to breath hold, it can be utilized by tissues. CO2 is then picked up by hemoglobin, escorted to the lungs, and breathed out. Intermittent Hypoxic Breathing is important for building a higher level of CO2 tolerance. The more CO2 the body is comfortable living with, the greater the amount of oxygen is freed to drive energy and repair. Regular practice of nose breathing exercises, nose breathing sleep, and breath retention are key to experiencing the benefits of intermittent hypoxia. It’s important to build CO2 tolerance (the ability to tolerate a safe buildup of CO2 without feeling the urgency to breathe). Today, because so many of us have become mouth breathers, there is a strong tendency to over-breathe with each breath (some 26,000 times a day). Over-breathing will build oxygen in the blood, which is a good thing, but it will also over-remove CO2. Without a healthy (but safe) buildup of CO2, oxygen will stay attached to hemoglobin, and oxygen saturation in the tissues will be compromised. The buildup of CO2 will cause the body to breathe. If too much CO2 accumulates, we will suffocate. Somewhere before suffocation, during brief intermittent periods of hypoxia (breath holds), an emergency repair message is released, causing a cascade of repair and recovery systems to turn on. A main driver of this response is a molecule called hypoxia-inducible factor 1 (HIF-1). This molecule is responsible for what some call superhuman effects. Benefits of HIF-1 (Hypoxia-Inducible factor-1) 1. Intermittent hypoxia has been found to enhance neuroplasticity, the capacity of neurons and neural networks to change connections and behavior in response to new information, sensory stimulation, development, damage, or dysfunction. In other words, our brains are designed to change, adapt, cope, and repair in the face of trauma, stress, a changing environment, and sensory input. Breath retention may therefore be a valuable tool for mental and emotional neurological repair. 2. Hypoxia has been shown to increase hemoglobin levels through the formation of erythropoietin (EPO). EPO was made famous when Lance Armstrong was caught doping his blood with EPO and was stripped of his six Tour De France victories. Yes, science suggests intermittent hypoxia from breath retention can boost EPO and enhance athletic performance. 3. Hypoxia boosts stem cell production. This was discovered when scientists measured stem cells in fetal circulation. The embryo in a mother’s womb breathes in a low partial pressure of oxygen, about equal to Mount Everest. This hypoxic environment is so important for the multiplication and growth of stem cells. After birth, when oxygen levels rise, stem cell production declines and future stem cell production is restricted to a few locations, such as bone marrow. Researchers suggest stem cells from bone marrow migrate to various tissues, and such migration may be facilitated by even a few minutes of hypoxia every day. 4. Hypoxia supports the formation of growth factors, such as vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), which leads to the formation of new blood vessels (angiogenesis). With heart patients, this can lead to the formation of coronary collateral circulation. 5. Hypoxia induces the enzyme nitric oxide synthase (NOS), the role of which is to produce the 1998 Noble Prize-winning panacea molecule nitric oxide. Nitric oxide (produced during nose breathing but not mouth breathing) is perhaps the body’s most potent defense against damage from oxidative stress (free radicals). Nitric oxide contributes to the dilatation of coronary arteries when needed and is involved in the quick vasodilatation required for the erection of the penis. Intermittent hypoxia can be an effective treatment for erectile dysfunction. 6. Hypoxia has been shown to increase the resistance of tissues to various insults and injuries, including radiation and aging. 7. Hypoxia has been shown to protect and repair damaged DNA by inducing the production of a transcription factor called p53, aka Guardian of the Genome. The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2019 (The Discoverers of HIF-1) https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2019/press-release/ Press release 2019-10-07 The Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet has today decided to award the 2019 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine jointly to William G. Kaelin Jr., Sir Peter J. Ratcliffe and Gregg L. Semenza for their discoveries of how cells sense and adapt to oxygen availability SUMMARY Animals need oxygen for the conversion of food into useful energy. The fundamental importance of oxygen has been understood for centuries, but how cells adapt to changes in levels of oxygen has long been unknown. William G. Kaelin Jr., Sir Peter J. Ratcliffe, and Gregg L. Semenza discovered how cells can sense and adapt to changing oxygen availability. They identified molecular machinery that regulates the activity of genes in response to varying levels of oxygen. The seminal discoveries by this year’s Nobel Laureates revealed the mechanism for one of life’s most essential adaptive processes. They established the basis for our understanding of how oxygen levels affect cellular metabolism and physiological function. Their discoveries have also paved the way for promising new strategies to fight anemia, cancer, and many other diseases. In one of his lectures, Dr. Buteyko equated Carbon Dioxide with Prana. Qi. what the West calls Spirit. Here is the etymology of the word Spirit. Please notice the connections: https://www.etymonline.com/word/Spirit Spirit "mid-13c., "life, the animating or vital principle in man and animals," from Anglo-French spirit, Old French espirit "spirit, soul" (12c., Modern French esprit) and directly from Latin spiritus "a breathing (of respiration, also of the wind), breath;" also "breath of a god," hence "inspiration; breath of life," hence life itself. The Latin word also could mean "disposition, character; high spirit, vigor, courage; pride, arrogance." It is a derivative of spirare "to breathe," and formerly was said to be perhaps from a PIE *(s)peis- "to blow" (source also of Old Church Slavonic pisto "to play on the flute"). But de Vaan says the Latin verb is "Possibly an onomatopoeic formation imitating the sound of breathing. There are no direct cognates." Compare conspire, expire, inspire. In English, it is attested from late 14c. as "divine substance, divine mind, God;" also "Christ" or His divine nature; also "the Holy Ghost; divine power." Also by late 14c. as "the soul as the seat of morality in man," and "extension of divine power to man; inspiration, a charismatic state; charismatic power," especially in reference to prophecy. The meaning "supernatural immaterial creature; angel, demon; an apparition, invisible corporeal being of an airy nature" is attested from mid-14c. The word is attested by late 14c. as "ghost, disembodied soul of a person" (compare ghost (n.)). Spirit-rapping, colloquial for spiritualism in the supernatural sense, is from 1852. Spirit-world "world of disembodied spirits" is by 1829." Breath/Qi/Spirit Facts The average person breathes 12 to 20 breaths a minute. People who are sick breathe up to 3x this fast. The goal, to be done GRADUALLY, is to learn to breathe from the lower diaphragm at all times, and to allow the Spirit to gradually slow the breath down over time. Lifestyle changes also help this to occur. The average person has a CO2 level of 4.5% to 5.5% CO2 in the alveoli. Alveoli are the tiny sacs in the lungs that move oxygen and carbon dioxide into and out of your bloodstream. Optimal CO2 levels would be 6.5% to 7.5% CO2 in alveoli. Amounts beyond this can become toxic and can have increasingly dangerous effects on the body. This is one of the primary reasons why advanced cultivation levels can become dangerous and you need a master to supervise you. Knowledge of static apnea tables or access to a device to monitor body CO2 levels is important at higher levels of practice. Masters of the past understood the symptoms of excess hypoxia and could usually treat it. Fortunately, we live in the 21st Century and have access to monitoring equipment and charts to assess where we're at in our training. You can use a combination of a Fitbit or Apple Watch, a Lumen device, and the Buteyko Health Zones Chart, to stay safe. Fitbit: https://a.co/d/b3R7iW4 Lumen: https://www.lumen.me/ (A Lumen enables you to monitor your CO2 levels, among other vitals. Cheaper than a $2,500 Capnograph: https://safeguardmedical.com/products/respiration/emma-capnograph/) Don't be careless. Make smart choices. The safest way to do this would be to get and use a Samozdrav device, which operates on the same principles outlined above: Samozdrav Device https://samozdrav.com/ (Note: Amazon is currently out of them, but you can order them directly from the link above. You can also buy them on eBay, but some of the sellers on there can be suspect (although the same could also be said about Amazon these days.) You can learn the actual Buteyko Method from the only certified Buteyko Center in America: https://www.breathingcenter.com/ I bought their video course: https://buteykobreathingcenter.com/products/buteyko-step-by-step-course I plan to eventually get certified by them, but that's thousands of dollars. So It'll be a while. Once you learn from them, check out Artour Rakhimov. He has his own school here. He knows his stuff. https://www.normalbreathing.com/ Along with some great books: Advanced Buteyko Breathing Exercises (Buteyko Method Book 2) https://a.co/d/48Q9LFY Normal Breathing: The Key to Vital Health https://a.co/d/2N0jB6X You could also use an Elevation 3.0 mask if you're athletically inclined: TRAINING MASK 3.0 - Elevation Training Mask 3.0 - Stamina, Performance, Altitude Running Mask, Clinically Proven & Patented https://www.amazon.com/Training-Elevation-Performance-Breathing-Official/dp/B071ZQTCC1/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=1UM0H6R95MM7J&keywords=elevation%2BTraining%2BMask&qid=1702538746&sprefix=elevation%2Btraining%2Bmask%2Caps%2C80&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1&psc=1 Okay, I've bored people enough. Now, onto the good stuff!! The Buteyko Health Zones chart and what happens at the various levels. There are two charts that I've seen. The Breathing Center's: https://www.breathingcenter.com/buteyko-breathing-measurements/ And Artour Rakhimov's chart, which has more details: https://www.normalbreathing.com/buteyko-table-of-health-zones/ I use Rakhimov's chart day to day. I've attached a PNG of it. Both Sasha Yakoleva, The Breathing Center's owner, and Artour Rakhimov, discuss the same effects at the higher levels of training: Sasha talking about the last line of her chart: "When a person passes away, his/ her CP and PMP become zero. Buteyko was able to predict, sometimes to the hour, when a patient would die. It used to make his colleagues uncomfortable, so much so that they assumed that he was familiar with magic. Some doctors and nurses would even call him The Sorcerer behind his back. Buteyko’s forecast was not based on the supernatural but on precise scientific observations. He knew: that when PMP reaches its bottom, life comes to its end. You probably noticed that there is also an upper part to Buteyko’s chart. What happens when PMP goes above the norm? Is it even possible? Yes. Many of Konstantin’s students had PMP of 120 and even 180 seconds, and you can train yourself to go that far. Many advanced spiritual practitioners, particularly yogis, belong to this level. From Buteyko’s medical perspective, this state of human well-being is abnormal but in a positive way. When PMP goes beyond 60 seconds, the person starts developing extraordinary abilities for example, their intuition becomes stronger, their inner monologue quiets down, confidence strengthens and the decision-making process becomes easier. During the late stage of his life, Konstantin Buteyko possessed some extraordinary skills, or as yogis call it ‘siddhis’: he was known for his ability to foresee the future, heal with his hands, access information telepathically, among other things. He developed these ˜powers’ by applying his own method. High PMP also reassures a long and active life. Interestingly, in some yoga traditions, the life span was measured not by years but by the number of breaths. Some believe that every person is given a fixed number of breaths to spend. If breathing is heavy, it will be used quickly and an individual will end up dying young. Shallow breathing allows this precious capital to be stretched, resulting in many years of productive life. Reduced breathing consumption definitely slows aging. I know it from my own experience as well as the experience of our students. When I start working with someone, I know that if this person is diligent, in two or three months their friends will start noticing changes. Normally, people ask What happened to you? You look so much better now! The answer: increased oxygenation of skin as well as the whole body due to a higher level of carbon dioxide in the lungs. Please keep in mind that the Buteyko Breathing Method is not a pill and it will not change your health instantaneously. I’ve observed many people become impatient. It takes at least six months for the immune, nervous, and other bodily systems to rehabilitate. The training facilitates this process but there is no way to jump from being an invalid to being a superman. Recovery is a gradual process; even though this method is the most effective and fastest compared to any healing technique I am familiar with, it still requires time. If your health is seriously impaired, most likely, your PMP won’t reach 60 seconds soon. It does not matter; what is important is that your PMP will be rising and you will be following the path to perfect health." Artour Rakhimov talks about the upper levels of his chart: "Health Levels that correspond to super-health (8-12) Dr. Buteyko also identified 5 zones and 5 Health Levels in the Buteyko Table of Health Zones that correspond to super-health or super-resilience. Transition to each next row above the Buteyko norm (Health Level 7) triggers certain biochemical processes, and many students report the appearance of lost (and often unknown) amazing abilities of the human body. For example, there is a natural reduction of sleep down to 2-4 hours. Only 2 hours of perfect sleep are sufficient for people who have about 2.5 – 3 minutes CP. I regularly observe this effect in my students: with 60 s CP, all of them report that they require 4 hours of sleep and cannot sleep more. Buteyko, in his interview, claimed that his usual sleep was 2 hours long. At around Health Level 9 (100 s morning and daily CP numbers), the following effects become common: – the ability to survive for days without food, water, and sleep, while still able to maintain a high CP and energy level to search for food and water and fight for life. – the ability to digest wider varieties of fibers – broken bones, deep cuts, and severe wounds can be healed in a few days, instead of weeks or months. Scars, if any, disappear within days. – painless childbirth for pregnant females. – production of antibodies in saliva that prevents cavities and the formation of plaque (no need to visit dentists 1-2 times every year). – extrasensory (aura skills or ability to see an aura around other people), psychic and telepathic abilities for over 2 min CP and some other effects related to decalcification and activation of the pineal gland (and thymus gland), and natural gamma brain waves or super consciousness (not just as-if during meditation but naturally and all the time)." Rakhimov's talking about the Gamma brain wave state corresponds with the work of Neuroscientist Richard J. Davidson and Psychologist Daniel Goleman. Altered Traits: Science Reveals How Meditation Changes Your Mind, Brain, and Body https://a.co/d/a1C60Av Superhumans: The remarkable brain waves of high-level meditators DANIEL GOLEMAN: "My co-author of the book Altered Traits is a neuroscientist, Richard Davidson. He has a lab at the University of Wisconsin. It's a very large lab, he has dedicated scanners, he has about 100 people working there, and he was able to do some remarkable research where he flew Olympic level meditators—who live in Nepal or India typically, some in France—he flew them over to the lab and put them through a protocol in his brain scanners and did state-of-the-art tests and the results were just astounding. We found, for example, or he found that their brain waves are really different. Perhaps the most remarkable findings in the Olympic level meditators have to do with what's called a gamma wave. All of us get gamma for a very short period when we solve a problem we've been grappling with, even if it's something that's vexed us for months. We get about half a second of gamma; it's the strongest wave in the EEG spectrum. We get it when we bite into an apple or imagine biting into an apple, and for a brief period, a split-second, inputs from taste, sound, smell, vision, all of that come together in that imagined bite into the apple. But that lasts a very short period in an ordinary EEG. What was stunning was that the Olympic level meditators, these are people who have done up to 62,000 lifetime hours of meditation, their brainwave shows gamma very strong all the time as a lasting trait just no matter what they're doing. It's not a state effect, it's not during their meditation alone, but it's just their everyday state of mind. We actually have no idea what that means experientially. Science has never seen it before. We also find that in these Olympic-level meditators when we asked them, for example, to do a meditation on compassion their level of gamma jumps 700 to 800 percent in a few seconds. This has also never been seen by science. So we have to assume that the special state of consciousness that you see in the highest level meditators is a lot like something described in the classical meditation literature centuries ago, which is that there is a state of being that is not like our ordinary state. Sometimes it's called liberation, enlightenment, awake, whatever the word may be we suspect there's really no vocabulary that captures what that might be. The people that we've talked to in this Olympic level group say it's very spacious and you're wide open, you're prepared for whatever may come, we just don't know. But we do know it's quite remarkable." I am currently at a 40-second control pause upon waking up. I've gotten up to 56 seconds, but I have additional lifestyle changes that I need to do (additional exercise and supplements to lower the systemic inflammation we all have as we get older) and I'm also increasing my practice time. My pulse rate is at 67 bpm, so I'm almost at 50 seconds. Getting past 40 seconds is actually the most difficult part, according to Rakhimov. Here's a rather excellent Wikipedia article on Taixi (Embryonic Breathing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taixi_(embryonic_breathing) This excerpt from Joseph Needham and Lu Gwei-Djen's "Science and Civilisation in China: Volume 5, Part 5, Chemistry and Chemical Technology Spagyrical Discovery and Invention: Physiological Alchemy, Cambridge University Press (1983)" correlates with what I've previously written: "In Chapter 8 ("Resolving Hesitations"), Ge Hong praises embryonic breathing and tells an underwater breath-holding anecdote about his granduncle Ge Xuan (164–244), who was prominent in early Daoism and the first recipient of the Lingbao sacred scriptures. Ge Hong seems to have understood taixi as the culmination of the long-term daily practice of xingqi "pneuma circulation" (Campany 2002: 365). First, he describes xingqi as a potent panacea and gives a detailed description of timing taixi breath-holding by counting heartbeats. By practicing the circulation of the [qi] [xingqi 行氣] one can cure the hundred diseases, one can walk through the midst of plagues and epidemics, one can ward off snakes and tigers, stop bleeding from wounds, stay underwater or walk across it, free oneself from hunger and thirst, and protract one's years. The most important thing is simply to (know how to) breathe like an embryo [胎息]. He who can breathe like a foetus [胎息] will respire [xuxi 噓吸] as if still in the womb [胞胎之中], without using nose or mouth; thus will the Tao be achieved. When one first begins to learn how to circulate the [qi], one must inhale through the nose and then close up that breath. While it is thus hidden within, one counts up to 120 heartbeats [~ 90 seconds] and then exhales it (gently) through the mouth. Neither during exhalation nor inhalation should one hear with one's ears the sound of the breathing, and one should make sure that more goes in than comes out. A wild goose feather may be placed in front of the nose and mouth, and during exhalation, this should not show any movement. After continual practice one may very gradually increase the number of heart-beats (during which the breath is held) to as much as 1000 [~ 12 minutes 30 seconds], and when this proficiency is reached, an old man will be able to grow younger daily, returning [huan 還] to youth by one day every day. (tr. Needham 1983: 143-144)" This article also discusses the dangers of the practice. I've provided an update on the new static apnea record holder: "Although the Baopuzi says that Ge Xuan could hold his breath underwater all afternoon, even allowing for typical hagiographic exaggeration, attempting extreme biqi (閉氣, "breath-holding") could be dangerous for taixi embryonic respiration practitioners. The current world record for static apnea (without prior breathing of 100% oxygen) is 11 minutes and 54 seconds, by Branko Petrović (2014). " "The historian of Chinese science Joseph Needham describes the many side effects of biqi and hypothesizes why early adepts eventually abandoned it. This breath-holding technique produced considerable hypoxemia (insufficient oxygen in the blood) with its strange effects, "buzzing in the ears, vertigo, perspiration, sensations of heat and formication in the extremities, fainting and headache." Furthermore, if Daoist breath-holding was practiced in temples on high mountains, it could result in chronic mountain sickness, with symptoms of "headache, dizziness, tinnitus, breathlessness, palpitations, sleep disturbance, fatigue, confusion, cyanosis, and notably loss of appetite." This could have made the delimited diet of the recluses easier to bear, "contributing as it did in its turn to the reduction of cardiac strain and heightened awareness and well-being consequent on the loss of all excess body weight" (1983: 145)." The claims of long life can be attributed to the adept's ability to go into a hypometabolic state. In other words, human hibernation. Diving Seals & Meditating Yogis: Strategic Metabolic Retreats https://www.amazon.com/Diving-Seals-Meditating-Yogis-Strategic-ebook/dp/B00V09PCBC Description: The comparative physiology of seemingly disparate organisms often serves as a surprising pathway to biological enlightenment. How appropriate, then, that Robert Elsner sheds new light on the remarkable physiology of diving seals through comparison with members of our own species on quests toward enlightenment: meditating yogis. As Elsner reveals, survival in extreme conditions such as those faced by seals is often not about running for cover or coming up for air, but rather about working within the confines of an environment and suppressing normal bodily function. Animals in this withdrawn state display reduced resting metabolic rates and are temporarily less dependent upon customary levels of oxygen. For diving seals—creatures especially well-adapted to prolonged submergence in the ocean’s cold depths—such periods of rest lengthen dive endurance. But while human divers share modest, brief adjustments of suppressed metabolism with diving seals, it is the practiced response achieved during deep meditation that is characterized by metabolic rates well below normal levels, sometimes even approaching those of non-exercising diving seals. The comparison does not end here: hibernating animals, infants during birth, near-drowning victims, and clams at low tide all also display similarly reduced metabolisms. By investigating these states—and the regulatory functions that help maintain them—across a range of species, Elsner offers suggestive insight into the linked biology of survival and well-being. Here's a possible example by way of a story by Robert Svoboda. Obviously anecdotal: When I Met A 200-Year-Old Saadhu - True Story by Robert Svoboda So I've just laid out all of the past and current research that validates the claims made in various Buddhist, Taoist, and Yogic texts. Research and test these methods yourself to confirm. Again, read the disclaimer at the beginning. These practices are serious stuff. You're literally changing your respiration patterns. If you decide to pursue this, learn from Sasha at the Breath Center. Get quarterly physicals and blood tests to ensure that you're not hurting your system. Monitor your vitals daily with a Fitbit, Lumen, Blood Pressure Monitor, and Glucose Monitor. Just attempt to get to a I-minute control pause (breath suspension) first, then decide how far you're going to go from there. DO NOT USE ANY FORCE!! PERIOD!! In part 4 I discuss a relatively safer way of getting results. Cheers!

Hi, Wandelaar, As a matter of fact, I do! It will take a week or two to lay out, and multiple posts, so please bear with me. I'll add this to my Energy Cultivator's Handbook, as time permits. It's A LOT and tends to put most people to sleep. As with most of my posts, It's going to be LONG. Explaining reality is simple but the details are complex. Apologies in advance. First things first. For those of you here who may not know me from previous posts and threads, I've pursued these subjects for most of my life. I've practiced them for 28 years and taught them for 24 of those years. I'm certified in Yang Style Tai Chi Quan, Qigong, Zhang Zhaung, and Neigong and have taught at a local community center for over 10 years. I've also learned TCM Theory, Short Form Chen Style Tai Chi Quan, Baguazhang, Long Fist, Iron Body, and Iron Crotch Neigong. I have participated in competitions (Push Hands) and won 1st place in my weight division for the 3 years that I did It. I've learned, practiced, and taught Theurgy (High Magick), Qigong, Meditation, Neidan, and Yoga, as part of an International spiritual society whose foundation is Ancient Egyptian/Taoist. I have over 5,000 hours of practice and teaching time and over 10,000 hours of meditation time. In my mundane life, I'm a Commercial Artist, Designer, and Writer. I'm also the founder of a multimedia streaming platform startup. I didn't write the above as an appeal to authority. I'm always about laying your cards out on the table and showing that you can back up what you're saying. I'm a member of many forums and chat groups in multiple disciplines, and they all have the same personality archetypes and more than their share of keyboard warriors. Theory and opinions are useless without actual application and verification. Beliefs can get you killed. What I attempt to do in all of my posts and the classes I teach is provide people with the information to go and verify what I'm talking about for themselves. BELIEVE NOTHING. ESPECIALLY what I'm saying. Research, discriminate, and be open but skeptical. If you're able to teach others and they get results, then you have something that could be called a science. Or mass psychosis. Now with that out of the way... Siddhis are a side effect and shouldn't be pursued in and of themselves. It's usually a waste of time, and if you do get any effect, it won't end well. But people are fearful and desire power to protect themselves and rule over others. This is the reason why actual siddhis can be dangerous. Because people don't know what they're doing and most importantly, WHY they're doing It. "WHO is it that desires the siddhis?" I'm going to use the analogy of a video game to explain concepts as I go. Most people here have played a video game before, so we should all be on the same level of being able to grok what I'm going to lay out. What we call objective reality is just a level of actual reality. the Western scientific paradigm has it in reverse. Objective reality is not the totality of what's "real". As a matter of fact, It's a VERY small part. It operates under a particular rule set. Like a physics engine in a AAA game like The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience. The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience Incredible, right? But unreal (pun intended). Just a series of 0s and 1s. Yin and Yang. "But I'm real, right?!" Uh, yeah. about that... No Self, No Problem: How Neuropsychology Is Catching Up to Buddhism (The No Self Wisdom Series) https://www.amazon.com/No-Self-Problem-Neuropsychology-Catching/dp/1938289978 Description: "While in grad school in the early 1990s, Chris Niebauer began to notice striking parallels between the latest discoveries in psychology, neuroscience, and the teachings of Buddhism, Taoism, and other schools of Eastern thought. When he presented his findings to a professor, his ideas were quickly dismissed as “pure coincidence, nothing more.” Fast-forward 20 years later and Niebauer is a PhD and a tenured professor, and the Buddhist-neuroscience connection he found as a student is practically its own genre in the bookstore. But according to Niebauer, we are just beginning to understand the link between Eastern philosophy and the latest findings in psychology and neuroscience and what these assimilated ideas mean for the human experience. In this groundbreaking book, Niebauer writes that the latest research in neuropsychology is now confirming a fundamental tenet of Buddhism, what is called Anatta, or the doctrine of “no self.” Niebauer writes that our sense of self, or what we commonly refer to as the ego, is an illusion created entirely by the left side of the brain. Niebauer is quick to point out that this doesn't mean that the self doesn't exist but rather that it does so in the same way that a mirage in the middle of the desert exists, as a thought rather than a thing. His conclusions have significant ramifications for much of modern psychological modalities, which he says are spending much of their time trying to fix something that isn’t there. What makes this book unique is that Niebauer offers a series of exercises to allow the reader to experience this truth for him- or herself, as well as additional tools and practices to use after reading the book, all of which are designed to change the way we experience the world―a way that is based on being rather than thinking." Outstanding book. A must-read. Except for one chapter, It's flawless. This is Dr. Niebauer's YouTube Channel: Thoughts do not exist So that which desires the siddhis is a mental construct. An Illusion. How can you prove this? Let's do it right now. We are observing our thoughts right now. Looking at them. We are observing images in our sphere of awareness right now. Looking at them. We are observing various sensations in our respective bodies right now. Looking at them. So if we're looking at all of this, then we're none of It. WE are awareness Itself. We are Consciousness. The Seer, The Witness. Original Nature. Zero. Amen. Once you Grok that, then the siddhis come. Because there are no siddhis. THEN the channels open up. Because there are no channels. We are, all of us, ALREADY awareness. ALREADY consciousness. ALREADY The Buddha. The Christ. The Krishna. THE ONE. But currently, we are all virtual characters, in a virtual world, with virtual beliefs and opinions about what's actually going on. We BELIEVE that we're Clark Kent, but we're ALREADY Superman/woman. ALL of our problems in understanding this is due to thinking. To be continued, with a clear-cut, non-denominational breakdown on how to get back to being The One again. As long as you do the work. So don't touch that dial. Cheers!

Hi, Maddie, We're supposed to ALWAYS be skeptical. About everything. ESPECIALLY the things coming out of our respective mouths. As long as it's not debunking, I have no issue with skepticism. It's required. What specifically, precisely, do you mean when you say evidence? Each of us lives in our particular perception of "reality". So if we don't agree on a lexicon of terms to communicate with, then mischief occurs, as demonstrated by this thread. So please lay out your definition of evidence. It'd be appreciated. I'll reply when I get back. Cheers!

Hi, Silent Thunder, Excellent point! Most of the information that we all have is hearsay. It's what our parents/relatives/school/church/media/government have told us and conditioned us to believe through reinforcement. We don't have direct experience with most of it. We take this information and form beliefs around them, which gather together to form belief systems. We take these beliefs, these words, to be facts. Knowledge. To paraphrase Patanjali, this is our biggest source of delusion. It's the root of all conflicts, both "Inner" and "Outer". When we say we believe, what we're saying is that we don't know. Our senses are filters for us to navigate in 3-dimensional space, not actual determinants of reality. This is why Western empiricism, upon which the scientific method is built, only works up to a point. It's why the scientific method works up to a point. empiricism /ĕm-pîr′ĭ-sĭz″əm/ noun The view that experience, especially of the senses, is the only source of knowledge. (Emphasis mine) Employment of empirical methods, as in science. An empirical conclusion. Evidence: 1. UNCOUNTABLE NOUN Evidence is anything that you see, experience, read, or are told that causes you to believe that something is true or has really happened. (Emphasis mine) Ganley said he'd seen no evidence of widespread fraud. [+ of/for] There is a lot of evidence that stress is partly responsible for disease. To date, there is no evidence to support this theory. Synonyms: proof, grounds, data, demonstration More Synonyms of evidence 2. UNCOUNTABLE NOUN Evidence is the information that is used in a court of law to try to prove something. Evidence is obtained from documents, objects, or witnesses. [law] The evidence against him was purely circumstantial. ...enough evidence for a successful prosecution. 3. See give evidence 4. VERB If a particular feeling, ability, or attitude is evidenced by something or someone, it is seen or felt. [formal] He's wise in other ways too, as evidenced by his reason for switching from tennis to golf. She was not calculating and evidenced no specific interest in money. [VERB noun] Synonyms: show, prove, reveal, display More Synonyms of evidence Our senses are not always accurate and don't show us all of reality as a survival mechanism. This is Donald Hoffman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_D._Hoffman Donald David Hoffman (born December 29, 1955) is an American cognitive psychologist and popular science author. He is a professor in the Department of Cognitive Sciences at the University of California, Irvine, with joint appointments in the Department of Philosophy, the Department of Logic and Philosophy of Science, and the School of Computer Science. Hoffman studies consciousness, visual perception, and evolutionary psychology using mathematical models and psychophysical experiments. His research subjects include facial attractiveness, the recognition of shape, the perception of motion and color, the evolution of perception, and the mind–body problem. He has co-authored two technical books; Observer Mechanics: A Formal Theory of Perception (1989) offers a theory of consciousness and its relationship to physics; Automotive Lighting and Human Vision (2005) applies vision science to vehicle lighting. His book Visual Intelligence: How We Create What We See (1998) presents the modern science of visual perception to a broad audience. His 2015 TED Talk, "Do we see reality as it is?" argues that our perceptions have evolved to hide reality from us. The Case Against Reality: How Evolution Hid the Truth from Our Eyes by Donald Hoffman https://a.co/d/jjDjTKq Do we see reality as it is? Donald Hoffman Donald Hoffman: Reality is an Illusion - How Evolution Hid the Truth | Lex Fridman Podcast #293 Quantum Mechanics has shown us time and time again that objective reality is just a level of reality and not the primary level: Quantum Reality - from Science News https://www.sciencenews.org/century/quantum-physics-theory-revolution-reality-uncertainty So when people talk about "The Burden of Proof" and "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence", they have to remain ever mindful of the fact that any conclusions are from a 3-dimensional Space/Time framework, and are not ultimate reality. They think that they're saying something definitive when they're not. Is so and so a fraud? Did you directly experience it? No? Then "who knows" is the correct answer to questions like this. Even if we directly experience a demonstration, it could still be suspect. It could be an illusion, a con. We don't know. But if WE learn to do It, NOW we have a bit more to work with. And if we're able to teach others to do it, to replicate our results, NOW we're cooking with plutonium! Now we have what we would call "A Science". Anything else is an opinion, a belief. Cheers!