Infolad1

LOL! D'oh! Cheers!

Oh, okay. The above still applies. Look at It In terms of the electromagnetic spectrum. Being able to go higher up In frequency, takes you into a higher level radiation. This is the reality of what's being done here. Your body changes to accommodate this radiation, which is what Shen Is. Here's a breakdown of the transformation sequence below, from William Bodri's Stages course: "TIMELINES FOR THE VARIOUS SEQUENCES OF TRANSFORMATION Taoism is a most useful cultivation school—perhaps the most useful--for explaining spiritual evolution according to the various physical transformations that can occur along the cultivation path. Furthermore, it is especially useful for having identified the general time sequences of these processes, and for having linked itself with the Chinese medical field as one of its outer garments. In review, we must remember that the various time sequences of cultivation transformation run generally as follows: Time Required Name of Cultivation Stage Biophysical Transformations Involved 100 days “Building the Foundation” Initial transformation of jing to chi 10 months “Pregnancy” Completing the transformation of jing to chi, starting the transformation of chi to shen 3 years “Suckling the Baby” Completing the chi to shen transformation, starting the transformation of shen to emptiness 9 year “Facing the Wall” Completing the shen to emptiness transformation, and starting to abandon emptiness for the Tao Indeterminate “Breaking Emptiness and Achieving a state of neither existence Returning to Tao” nor non-existence (emptiness) We can also summarize this set of sequences by saying: It is said that “Building up the foundation in one hundred days” is the preliminary stage required for transmutation of ching into ch’i, and that “pregnancy for ten months” is the preliminary stage necessary for the transmutation of ch’i into shen. “To suckle for three years” is the beginning of the transmutation of shen into void or emptiness. Finally, “facing the wall for nine years” is the last step required for breaking up the empty space.58 Tao and Longevity: Mind-Body Transformation, Nan Huai-Chin, trans. by Wen Kuan Chu (Samuel Weiser, York Beach: Maine, 1991), p. 85. As Taoism always emphasizes, if you cultivate correctly, not only will your internal esoteric substances of jing, chi and shen transform according to a well established, sequential process of alchemical reactions, but your corporeal, physical body will transform along with these spiritual changes as well. In general, the physical body will transform according to the following general scheme we previously mentioned which correlates to the transformations expected between jing, chi, and shen: After one year of practice, your chi will be transformed. After two years of practice, your blood will be transformed. After three years, your mai (blood vessels, nerves and energy channels) will be transformed. After four years, your muscles (flesh) will be transformed. After five years, your bone marrow will be transformed. After six years, your sinews and tendons will be transformed. After seven years, your bones will be transformed. After eight years, your hair will be transformed. After nine years of cultivation, your entire bodily form (shape) will be transformed. No matter how smart you are, no matter how wise you are, no matter what substances you might wish to ingest to speed up this process, no matter how high your stage of spiritual attainment, there is a limit to how much you can rush this process of physical transformation. Because these transformations involve the physical body, there is a natural limit as to how much faster you can make them transpire. The reason you can’t rush this process is because it invariably requires a specific amount of time—given our human bodies--in order to change the physical structures of this human body. Even a fully enlightened Buddha has to wait roughly this same amount of time for these transformations to become complete, just as a child cannot speed up the time required to pass through puberty. Of course with prajna wisdom these physical changes might happen a little bit more quickly and they will certainly occur with less side troubles, but all true cultivators have to pass through them nonetheless." Bodri sometimes describes it as an 18 year sequence, but as you can see, the last stage is an indeterminate length of time. You're transforming a body that operates within the constraints of space and time, into something that can operate beyond them, so it's going to take a minute for the transformation to occur. No getting around that. The thing I love about Bodri's work, Is that I went through a number of the physical changes first, THEN I discovered his work, and saw that It matched up with my own experience, to a T. Look at the transformation stages as a guideline MooNiNite. Don't take It to be literal. Your mileage may vary. Cheers!

Hi MooNiNite. I apologize for the delay in getting back. You don't accumulate Shen. You purify your Qi, so that you open up into Shen. Shen is already there. You just have to purify yourself to accept this. To "let go", "die to the world", "cross the abyss". They're various terms for this part of the process. You're not actually dying. you're letting go of the Illusions that obstruct the true reality. I love how one Master described It: "It's like being at the train station. you're looking all around for who you're supposed to meet (Shen/Divine Spirit), but you can't see them because of the crowd (Incorrect thoughts, and Images). Then suddenly you turn around and go, "OH! THERE you are! I've been looking all over for you! But you were here all the time!" That's what we're doing. Cheers!

Thanks SOTG. I just want to give as many people maps to walking the path safely, as possible. I teach Tai Chi Quan & Self Defense at a senior center, here In Philly. I see the results of not taking care of your vehicle. Not breathing correctly. Not managing your jing. (Out of 40 members, only 3 are men. the rest are women. Manange your jing! It is literally the source of your life!). They have bible study, and then I teach them the 6 Healing Sounds, Tai Chi, & how to hit the vitals along the centerline of the body, if someone tries to give them trouble. I Love It! One lady there was telling all of them how great she felt, after doing wuji standing meditation, barefoot in her backyard, absorbing Yin Qi like I showed them! That's the kind of stuff I live for these days. Cheers!

Thanks Grok! I still have to get a copy of his correspondence with Wolfgang Pauli, "Atom & Archetype". They had It at Amazon for upwards of $200, for a minute. Thank goodness, a new printing came out: Atom and Archetype: The Pauli/Jung Letters, 1932-1958 http://www.amazon.com/Atom-Archetype-Pauli-Letters-1932-1958/dp/069116147X Also getting this one: Return of the World Soul: Wolfgang Pauli, C.G. Jung and the Challenge of Psychophysical Reality http://www.amazon.com/Return-World-Soul-Challenge-Psychophysical/dp/8895604121/ref=pd_sim_14_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=14VVNW79NYRWSVYV434F Cheers!

I greatly apologize Apeiron&Peiron. I was addressing what Innersoundqigong had put up earlier, and forgot to put his name at the beginning. What I said wasn't directed to you. Again, my apologies. Cheers!

Thanks for your reply. As someone whose practiced the spiritual cultivation system of the Ancient Egyptians (Pre-Dynastic to 5th Dynasty Models) for the past 19 years, your statement Is incorrect. So I have to address this. Then can we all PLEASE get back on topic? Thanks. Ancient Egyptian culture was both cataphatic, and apophatic. Initial stages are descriptive of Nebertcher's (The Lord of All) qualities, functioning in both the phenomenal, and noumenal realms. At the higher levels of Initiation, through meditation work that's the equivalent of Qigong, Shen Gong, & Tao Gong, the Initiate has direct experience of themselves first as Ausar (Ausares/Osiris), then as it's true nature (Amen/Hetep/Nirvana). By the very nature of the work, words aren't utilized at this point. they can't be. The Ancient Egyptians were very clear about the fact that you can't give a name, a description to "God". All of their "Names", or actually describing it's effects In the world, not the reality itself. That's not possible with words. As an analogy, we don't experience sound. We experience sound's effects on the environment. So we're giving a description, understanding that it's not the actual reality. When you field strip down all Scientific terms, it boils down to this. We're describing the graphics engine, not the creator of the engine. Unless you do spiritual cultivation work to get outside of the simulation, and see the true reality behind it, then all you're doing is attempting use the AI (Intellect) that we've all been given (And which has set parameters that limit what it can, and can't do) to talk about things beyond it's capacity. People who do this then fall into the "dog chasing it's own tail" fallacy. The thing about logic, is that you can reason about any thing. But Is the premise correct? You see it all the time. People utilizing beautifully realized deductive, and Inductive reasoning. but their premises are resting on quicksand. Puns are a highly effective way to alter thought patterns, specifically in a state of altered consciousness (Trance states are the only time that you can reprogram both the spirit, and mind. Fortunately, people go into trance states on the average of seven times a day, accepting all kinds of images, & thoughts. These are known as "thought drift", "reveries", "daydreaming", etc.) That's actually my point Apeiron&Peiron. Nothing is known about Pythagaros. It's all heresay: "Many of the accomplishments credited to Pythagoras may actually have been accomplishments of his colleagues and successors. Some accounts mention that the philosophy associated with Pythagoras was related to mathematics and that numbers were important. It was said that he was the first man to call himself a philosopher, or lover of wisdom, and Pythagorean ideas exercised a marked influence on Aristotle, and Plato, and through him, all of Western philosophy". hear·say ˈhirˌsā/ noun information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor. At the end of the day, just about everything that people "think" they know In life, is heresay. Western thought is based on a combination of heresay, and empiricism ( data from the five senses). As long as you're aware of this, It can be utilized, which I do, understanding It can only do so much, and go so far. You don't take mind to no thing. no thing is it's foundation. It's already there. What you're talking about is the persona (per sona = A thing through which sound comes through). Couldn't agree with you more. No thing (which is what a word is) has a quality in, and of itself. It's only in relation to other words that meaning is grasped. But words can never convey the reality behind them. We have to do that (and when I say "we", I'm referring to "mind", not"persona", or "Intellect" ) Apeiron&Peiron, all words can ever do Is give a description. That's what they're built to do. The only exception to what I just said are mantras, words of power, which have no inherent meaning. The actually DO things, not just describe. These were used extensively in Ancient Egypt (All of the actual names of the Neteru (so-called "gods") have their respective mantras built into them (Ausar=Aum:said nasally, with an "ng"=aung). This is the reason why the Greek names for them are incorrect). Images are above language. They're a direct plug into the "Psychospiritual World" as Wolfgang Pauli described it. "Unus Mundus ("Whole World") was the term Jung used. Images are the gate to direct perception. Anyone whose utilized mandalas, and yantras, or has worked in advertising knows that. Jung was the Sage that the West needed, and ignored, to it's detriment. I'm discussing modern physics, not classical. Also tying In Information theory, digital physics, the work of Dr. James Oschman, and the "Orch OR" Theory of Sir Roger Penrose, with Dr. Stuart Hameroff (with caveats. I don't agree with all of them completely, but who agrees with anyone completely? ) To my personal satisfaction, I've confirmed that this is all a simulation (to be poetical about It, we are all "Dreams In The Mind of God". But that's not completely accurate). We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. We do agree on a lot Apeiron&Peiron. I see a lot of the divergence as, "You say tomato, I say tomata". ) At the end of the day, we're both searching for the same thing: Enlightenment. A noble, and worthy cause. Thanks for a great discussion. You can wrap up with your reply. Then can we please get back on topic. Thanks Cheers!

Please get back on topic, or I'm contacting the moderator. You're now officially attempting to derail this thread. I said that I agree to disagree with you, and let others decide. I have absolutely no ego in this. None. Yet you keep writing about a topic that's not pertinent to the thread. We discussed it, & offered our viewpoints for others to read. Please stop now. Good Fortune! Cheers!

Great stuff, SOTG! I'm apologizing In advance. You know I've always got to lay the roadmap out first, In order to make my point. Please bear with me. As you know, a lot of the confusion, and fear, about this, comes from people's lack of understanding of the terms "I", "Mind", "Thought", "Philosophy", "Psyche", and especially "Subconscious". Everything In the noumenal (mental), & phenomenal levels of "reality", is Spirit, "Breath", "Emanation". Spirit is energy/matter, of varying levels of density. This energy/matter takes on different patterns, different forms, according to the Intent (Yi) of The Primary Consciousness/Will. The Primary Consciousness/Will differentiates itself into various energy/matter patterns, and forms (Ancient Egyptian "Khepera", the Infinite manifestations of Life). Like a Corporation (Coporeal: Matter), You have The Chairman of the Board, Board of Directors, Administrators, & Workers. These are known In Traditional Western Magick under various names, such as Ain Soph (Primary Consciousness/Will ), Seraphim, & Cherubim, Powers/Virtues, Dominions, Principalities, Archangels, Angels, Demons/Daemons, Elementals, Man (Adam Kadmon), & Hu-Man ("Humus/Earth" Man/Adam(from adamah"ground"). This is a Judeo-Christian framework. I used it, because it tends to be the one that Americans are most familiar with, If only peripherally. These energy patterns/forms/ primary Ideas (I Deities) function as different aspects of mind. They ARE mind. They ARE "the subconscious" These are the Intelligences, the "Genii" that make up your mind. They function both within your mind, and In the world at large (although at the end of the day, there IS no "In Here/Out There"). The mind is not the Intellect. The Intellect is the faculty that handles reasoning, logic. In other words, describing, categorizing, separating things, & events. The"Left" side of the brain. The "Right' brain hemisphere allows us to Interface with mind. What most people are talking about when they say "I", is not I. I is the Chairman of the Board. The false "I" is the ego, which is a mental construct. An amalgamation of memories, thought patterns, and conditioned responses to stimuli. The Ego is in service to the animating spirit ("animal"), whose primary function is to ensure the survival of the vehicle(body), and to create other bodies(procreate) over time, for Consciousness to function through. The animal is only concerned with getting food, shelter, sex, and destroying any thing that gets in the way of obtaining these things. The animating spirit resides physically In the reptilian(r-complex), and mammalian (limbic) parts of the brain. The animating spirit is the home of e-motions (External motions =forces=motive engines). These are the source for the various "animating ("Animal") Powers. This is the body of Qi, the body of Kundalini. The animal spirit is what moves this body. Without It, your body is just a husk of dead, and decomposing cells. The animal spirits of the deceased can be utilized for magickal purposes. People who do this are known as necromancers. Animal spirits that sometimes get stuck on this plane, after the persona dissolves, are what people call "Ghosts". They're automatons, repeating programs embedded on their structure, over and over again, until the energy eventually transforms, and dissipates. (No thing last forever. Time eventually kills every thing in this simulation). At this low level, there are also various human, and non-human discarnate intelligences, of varying degrees of power, and Influence. And below this, the equivalent of bottom feeders (roaches, shrimp, amoeba) In the gross physical world. Other cultures have other models of this reality (Ancient Egyptian, Taoist, Buddhist, Indus Valley,etc.), but the fundamental principles are the same. Western Intellectuals tend to write all of this off as "Animism", & "Pantheism" (LOOOVve those "Isms"! LOL!) To paraphrase Western Occultist Lon Milo Duquette, "It's All In Your Head. You Just Have no Idea How Big your Head Is". More Modern Magickal systems do away with the J-C framework described above, and attempt to adopt frameworks around Jungian Depth Psychology. This is where we hear talk of "Archetypes". People always tend to misquote Jung on these matters. And some Magick practitioners think that these techniques are just "mind games", effecting "the subconscious", by accessing "the collective unconscious". And his style of writing is EXTREMELY dense (I believe Intentionally. That, and he was an incredibly intelligent persona). But the man was very precise about all of this. He was fully aware of the society that he was presenting these concepts to. His exact term for these energy patterns, was "Psychoid Archetypes". His actual theory Is below: "In later years Jung revised and broadened the concept of archetypes even further, conceiving of them as psycho-physical patterns existing in the universe, given specific expression by human consciousness and culture. Jung proposed that the archetype had a dual nature: it exists both in the psyche and in the world at large. He called this non-psychic aspect of the archetype the "psychoid" archetype. Jung drew an analogy between the psyche and light on the electromagnetic spectrum. The center of the visible light spectrum (i.e., yellow) corresponds to consciousness, which grades into unconsciousness at the red and blue ends. Red corresponds to basic unconscious urges, and the invisible infra-red end of the spectrum corresponds to the influence of biological instinct, which merges with its chemical and physical conditions. The blue end of the spectrum represents spiritual ideas; and the archetypes, exerting their influence from beyond the visible, correspond to the invisible realm of ultra-violet. Jung suggested that not only do the archetypal structures govern the behavior of all living organisms, but that they were contiguous with structures controlling the behavior of inorganic matter as well. The archetype was not merely a psychic entity, but more fundamentally, a bridge to matter in general. Jung used the term unus mundus to describe the unitary reality which he believed underlay all manifest phenomena. He conceived archetypes to be the mediators of the unus mundus, organizing not only ideas in the psyche, but also the fundamental principles of matter and energy in the physical world. It was this psychoid aspect of the archetype that so impressed Nobel laureate physicist Wolfgang Pauli. Embracing Jung's concept, Pauli believed that the archetype provided a link between physical events and the mind of the scientist who studied them. In doing so he echoed the position adopted by German astronomer Johannes Kepler. Thus the archetypes which ordered our perceptions and ideas are themselves the product of an objective order which transcends both the human mind and the external world". You'll hear stories, and see pictures of some of these Archetypes all over the world. People used to call them Wheels, Djinn, Spirits, Fairies, Devas,"The Good Folk". Now they call them "UFOs". You can interact with them utilizing magickal techiniques (technology). Various cultures have done so for millennia. Aleister Crowely famously used this technology to contact one of these entities, known as "Lam". Various Magickal systems enable you to verify the above reality, to you own satisfaction. You can also generate objective results that others can experience. Once you re-establish yourself as Chairman of the Board again (Why do I keep seeing Frank Sinatra? LOL ), you now have direct control over all Psychoid Archetypes functioning In both yourself, and the world at large. Which folks here on this forum know is composed of mind. Which is composed of Psychoid Archetypes. So you now have direct control over the fundamental building blocks of reality. This obviously allows you to do some very Interesting things. You can create your own forms. These single thought forms are known as Tulpas. Group thought forms are known as Egregores. I trust that perceptive folks here can see the ramifications of all of this. As a perfect example. Satan is not a real entity. It's an amalgamation of the Egyptian Set, Islamic Shaitan, and In Astrotheology, it corresponds to the Planet Saturn. However, get enough people to believe In the reality of a horned, red skinned, cloven hoofed, adversary to the creator, and guess what? Given the right conditions, a Thought Form that THINKS it's Satan will show up, and who's energy you can utilize for what you want. Millions of people believe this for thousands of years, and the thought form/energy pattern gets stronger. Let's be clear. Physical effects can, and do show up, for people who understand the formula. But keep in mind, it's going to follow the personality complex given to it, taking on a pseudo intelligence as It does so. So you've been warned. From what I can see, ancient cultures were very aware of how all of this worked. I'm positive that this is the mechanism being utilized for gain, and profit by the world's major belief systems. Some of the knowledge based systems utilize this mechanism to bind people to a particular "Guru", or "Master", feeding the Egregore (God, Deva, etc.) or disincarnate intelligence that empowers them. Now that you have an overview of the land, you now know how you can utilize these faculties to achieve what you will into the world. You can utilize the power of the Egyptian Neteru Sekhert this month (sidereal moon in Saturn) to achieve things ruled by her ( career, spiritual power, your destiny). You can utilize the energy generated by love for "My Little Pony", to manifest things into the world. ("Bronies" rejoice!) You can energize your Qi, with these forms, as a supplemental energy reserve. (The Kamekameha is within reach! ) The applications are endless. Just make sure that you have nothing but good, positive intentions for utilizing this, Ideally to help others (family, friends, the world, etc.). If not, using these techniques won't end well. This is the only thing you need to be mindful of at all times. What are my motives? Are they high, are are they low? And who is this "me", that keeps talking? Is it the human, the man, or the God? Figure that out first. Other than that, have fun! Cheers!

Please see my reply to your previous post. Cheers!

Extra-Sensory Perception occurs at all levels of the process, not just Shen. These perceptions are just expanded, the higher up you go. that's all. Most folks already have, and use esp. They just write It off as "coincidences", "miracles", and "luck". Cheers!

Yeah, It went completely off the rails at the end. LOL! I just wanted to take the opportunity to Illustrate were a lot of these discussions go wrong. You're absolutely right. It's about practice, and relaying your experience. That's It. A lot of folks are wired, and conditioned to take a fundamentalist approach to things, regardless of the subject matter. When you field strip It down, there is no difference In the arguments of atheists versus theists (as an example), by the book cultivators versus more eclectic cultivators. Direct experience, and being able to replicate this with others, is the only real determinant for any of this. Without this, it's all just belief, & wishful thinking. As I like to say to my students, "I don't care how you get there (Enlightenment), as long as you get there". Language is ALWAYS a double edged sword (that's why the Psychoid Archetype that governs language, & the Intellect, Is known as both The Opener, AND The Closer of The Way. Thoughts and words can do both). You can only assimilate so many bits of Information at a time, so something ALWAYS gets lost when translating knowledge to In-Form-ation. Cultural upbringing, education level, etc. always throw noise into the signal, unfortunately. But since language is such a major part of our lives, the attempt must be made to utilize it as best as possible on the path. There's a reason why you see the pyramid as a symbol in a number of cultures. One of those is that as people walk the path back home, the higher up you go, the more people get knocked off, due to the reasons you outlined. "The Warning to Practitioner's Chapter of the Surangama Sutra taught by Shakyamuni Buddha to Ananda" Illustrates a number of ways that this happens well. I actually already knew this conversation wouldn't reach a resolution. Conversations with fundamentalists never do. It was done as a way to lay out my viewpoints on these matters, so people could research, and decide for themselves. You know my m.o., the1gza. I lay out the data, along with my experiences, and let folks come to their own conclusions, Ideally through application, and practice. I know you're not doggin' me Bro. It's all Kool and the Gang. You're right. Conversations like this do get old. Hopefully this'll be the last one of this type that we see. (Okay, all of you stop laughing at that last line! LOL!) Cheers!

You make a great point Walker. I'm fortunate, In that my Sifu is adept at Mandarin, Cantonese, & Taiwanese, so I'm aware of the MANY meanings of the various terms used here. It really does help give you a more rounded perspective, and shows you how rigid , yet off the mark Westerners have become In the usage of said terms. So yeah, an actual Daoist would look at all of this and basically go, "uhh...okaay."LOL! Shen Is Consciousness. that's about It Cheers!

That's great! Shows you're doing the work. How far out do you send the Yin Shen Emanation body? Do you abide by the protocols for how far out to send it initially? The Yang Shen Emanation Body takes more time to manifest, but you'll know It, because everyone can See It. While you're awake. This goes under speculation on my part (I'll let you know, when I get there), but it makes sense, once you understand the theory, and from what I've experienced so far. Cheers!

The great way is ultimate simplicity Walker. but all Initiatory systems utilize a "secret language" at the beginning, and middle stages. In other words, definitions, terms. You can't yank someone out of their old worldview. It takes time. One of the subtle, yet effective ways to do this, is through language. Another way is diet (The Human mental construct/Animal Spirit One Two punch). Once you've changed their language, diet, and gotten them to do Initial breathing exercises, meditation, & mantras for some time, THEN you can start the process of simplification. Once the process activates, you'll do it automatically. Cheers!

Well, since most of the things being attributed to Pythagoras that were actually on point, were Ancient Egyptian In origin, what you say makes sense. Ancient Egyptians were master, and mistresses of double entendres, and puns. Things attributed to Pythagaros are mostly speculation. There is no such thing as Pythagorean Philosophy. What's called Pythagorean Philosophy is just watered down Egyptian Cosmologics. As I said previously, all words are are descriptions for the level of the simulation we're currently working from. No Thing is the foundation of every thing. Consciousness is immaterial, thus no thing. Like knows like. Direct experience is the only way to know this reality. Words fail at this point. As an old sage wrote, "all of these words I write, are the words of the Devil". LOL! People tend to overcomplicate all of this, and It degenerates Into "Blah, blah, blah." If you can't explain the basic theory to a five year old, you're doing something wrong. William of Ocham tends to prevail in these matters. Keep it simple. And who is this "I", that Hume keeps talking about? And yes, this has gone WAY off the topic of the thread. let's get back to It please. I've basically said what I needed to say. Thanks for joining the discussion Apeiron&Peiron. Cheers!

This is not a thread about the history of Quantum Mechanics, Innersoundqigong. Please stay on topic. With that said, I'm going to respond to your comments, so that my response is a matter of public record here, for others to read, and come to their own conclusions. Your whole argument is based on Louis de Broglie's Interpretation. Here it is, In his own words: De Broglie Hypothesis "The fundamental idea of [my 1924 thesis] was the following: The fact that, following Einstein's introduction of photons in light waves, one knew that light contains particles which are concentrations of energy incorporated into the wave, suggests that all particles, like the electron, must be transported by a wave into which it is incorporated... My essential idea was to extend to all particles the coexistence of waves and particles discovered by Einstein in 1905 in the case of light and photons." "With every particle of matter with mass m and velocity v a real wave must be 'associated'", related to the momentum by the equation: where \lambda is the wavelength, h is the Planck constant, p is the momentum, m is the rest mass, v is the velocity and c is the speed of light in a vacuum." This theory set the basis of wave mechanics. It was supported by Einstein, confirmed by the electron diffraction experiments of Davisson and Germer, and generalized by the work of Schrödinger. However, this generalization was statistical and was not approved of by de Broglie, who said "that the particle must be the seat of an internal periodic movement and that it must move in a wave in order to remain in phase with it was ignored by the actual physicists [who are] wrong to consider a wave propagation without localization of the particle, which was quite contrary to my original ideas." From a philosophical viewpoint, this theory of matter-waves has contributed greatly to the ruin of the atomism of the past. Originally, de Broglie thought that a real wave (i.e., having a direct physical interpretation) was associated with particles. In fact, the wave aspect of matter was formalized by a wavefunction defined by the Schrödinger equation, which is a pure mathematical entity having a probabilistic interpretation, without the support of real physical elements. This wavefunction gives an appearance of wave behavior to matter, without making real physical waves appear. However, until the end of his life de Broglie returned to a direct and real physical interpretation of matter-waves, following the work of David Bohm. The de Broglie–Bohm theory is today the only interpretation giving real status to matter-waves and representing the predictions of quantum theory. So If not for David Bohm's work, de Broglie's theory of matter-waves wouldn't even be recognized...at all. And even then, de Broglie's theory, known as Pilot Wave theory, had too much of a similarity to another popular quantum interpretation: "Many authors have expressed critical views of the de Broglie-Bohm theory, by comparing it to Everett's many worlds approach. Many (but not all) proponents of the de Broglie-Bohm theory (such as Bohm and Bell) interpret the universal wave function as physically real. According to some supporters of Everett's theory, if the (never collapsing) wave function is taken to be physically real, then it is natural to interpret the theory as having the same many worlds as Everett's theory. In the Everettian view the role of the Bohm particle is to act as a "pointer", tagging, or selecting, just one branch of the universal wavefunction (the assumption that this branch indicates which wave packet determines the observed result of a given experiment is called the "result assumption"; the other branches are designated "empty" and implicitly assumed by Bohm to be devoid of conscious observers. H. Dieter Zeh comments on these "empty" branches: “ It is usually overlooked that Bohm's theory contains the same "many worlds" of dynamically separate branches as the Everett interpretation (now regarded as "empty" wave components), since it is based on precisely the same . . . global wave function . . . ” David Deutsch has expressed the same point more "acerbically": “ pilot-wave theories are parallel-universe theories in a state of chronic denial. ” So, although de Broglie did in fact do great work In helping to lay a part of the foundation of Quantum Mechanics, his theory never gained any real traction, at the end of the day. It was never The foundation of the theory. And then you bring In Pythagoras to the mix: You: "De Broglie realized this violates a basic fundamental principle of science - the Law of Pythagoras that time as wavelength is inverse to frequency as energy". Let's see about Pythagaros' contributions to science, shall we?: "Pythagoras made influential contributions to philosophy and religion in the late 6th century BC. He is often revered as a great mathematician and scientist and is best known for the Pythagorean theorem which bears his name. However, because legend and obfuscation cloud his work even more than that of the other pre-Socratic philosophers, one can give only a tentative account of his teachings, and some have questioned whether he contributed much to mathematics or natural philosophy. Many of the accomplishments credited to Pythagoras may actually have been accomplishments of his colleagues and successors". The link that you put up as proof of de Broglie's theory, did no such thing. It just showed experiments that have been done, that validate quantum entanglement, what Einstein called, "spooky action at a distance". Scientists already figured out that he was wrong about this. doesn't mean he was wrong about everything. Faulty reasoning on your part. Time is a measure in which events can be ordered from the past through the present into the future, and also the measure of durations of events and the intervals between them. Frequency is the number of occurrences of a repeating event per unit time. So frequency is just an aspect of time, not it's complement. that's space. Time (Yang/Temporal/Differentiation of Events, according to the left brain hemisphere/Eternity). Space(Yin/Spatial/Unity/ according to right brain hemisphere/Infinity). As I've said before, Yin & Yang can be used to talk about anything, and are dualistic by their very nature. Again, I've already said, and shown this. Yin and Yang can be used to discuss matter, which I did. They can be used to discuss consciousness, which I also did. At no time did I say that Yin and Yang were physical matter. I was very specific. I said they were modalities, forces. Please don't attempt to put words into my mouth. I understand exactly what you're saying. I just don't agree with It. I put my bio up the day I registered here: http://thedaobums.com/topic/38830-hello-everyone/ "I've been doing the Chinese Internal Martial Art of Tai Chi Quan for over 16 years, since 1999. (Yes, Tai Chi Quan is a Martial Art I've acquired Internal arts skills in the Wu-Tang system of Grandmaster Liu Yun-Chiao, including Old Form Yang Style Tai Chi Quan, Old Form Chen Style Tai Chi Quan, Baguazhang, Standing Meditation, Long Fist, & Tai Chi Qigong. I also do Internal Alchemy, and Iron Body / Iron Crotch Nei-Gong, as taught to me by Grandmaster Tu Jin-Sheng . I've been certified by my Sifu to teach Yang Style Tai Chi Quan, which I've done for close to 5 years. Since 1999, I've also taught weekly classes in qigong, theurgy, meditation, stress management, and nutrition to the general public, and corporate clients. I've won the following awards: 1999 1st Place – Lightweight Division Push Hands 1999 Bronze Medal – Push Hands 1998 1st Place – Lightweight Division Push Hands I'm continuing the work to be certified in all aspects of the Wu-tan system." I also have an accumulated 14,000+ hours practice time, over this time period. If you have a Bio, feel free to put It up, along with what Qigong Masters you study with, If you're able to do so. I will now show that both Taoists, and Buddhists already understood all of the above, utilizing the Yin Yang symbol. I will now turn this sideways. Both Wave (Yin/Mother/Matter), And Particle (Yang/Father/Pattern), Interacting with each other, within a closed system. All you need to know about the foundation of manifested reality, In one elegant mandala. Remove what's Inside, and you have Zero, a circle. no beginning, no end. All words are just descriptions, finite, & limited, by their very nature. Zero is a description, 1 is a description. de·scrip·tion dəˈskripSH(ə)n/ noun 1.a spoken or written representation or account of a person, object, or event. "people who had seen him were able to give a description" synonyms: account, report, rendition, explanation, illustration; More 2.a sort, kind, or class of people or things. "ships of every description" synonyms: sort, variety, kind, type, category, order, breed, class, designation, specification, genre, genus, brand, make, character, ilk, stripe "vehicles of every description" You're making a lot of absolute statements about me. They're opinions, nothing more, nothing less. People on here can do their own research, and decide for themselves If I know the basic history, and principles of Quantum Physics, based on what i've written. Anyone on here can cite what I've written, research It for themselves, and validate for themselves If what I say is true, as they can what you've written. I'll let that be the determinant as to who's "right". Your own writings on this forum betray your dogmatic stance regarding anything that counters what's In Taoist Yoga. I've had Taoist Yoga for 16 years. Annotated it. Done It. You're forever utilizing terminology, and phrases from that book. Again, anyone on this forum can get a copy, or PDF of Taoist Yoga, go through It, compare what's In the book, and what you've said, and come to there own conclusions. You: "pop science quantum "models". The founders of Quantum Physics are not "Pop Science". I write so people can understand what I'm saying. I'm not about hiding beyond unnecessary nomenclature. I've got more respect for the people on here that are honestly seeking, to not waste their time. You: "I've studied all those models you refer to but they ignore the fundamental issue at hand. This is your opinion, which you're entitled to. but that's all it is. Again, people can research your viewpoint for themselves, and decide If you're right, or not. You: "Your comment here demonstrates a bourgeois mind-controlled approach to technology just as you did with your shopping around for quantum models." LOL! Now you're going all Trotsky on me? So being middle class is supposed to be an Insult? How old are you? And saying that I'm mind controlled? People that know me will crack up at that one. You're pretty loose with the Insults. May need to work on those habit energies some more. LOL! The rest of it you went completely off topic. This is not a Conspiracy/Parapolitics forum (Not that there's anything wrong with that). So folks, there you have it. You can read, and research both of our viewpoints, if you choose to do so, and see which one works for you, If at all. Thanks again Innersoundqigong for giving me the opportunity to leave a discourse that seekers can possibly use on their travels. Let's agree to disagree, and keep It moving. Good Fortune to you! Now I've got to go make some Imaginary money, whose numbers don't exist, to pay my imaginary rent. LOL! Cheers!

Thanks Daeluin! Rifts only occur due to Ego. Want the best for others, but let them find their own way. It might not be your way. I'm just laying out what I've experienced. The fundamentals are the fundamentals. they're non-denominational. The techniques, and ways of getting there, on the other hand, are legion! LOL!! As long as it doesn't bring harm to others, however you get there is up to you. You'll only hear from me when people botch the fundamentals. I don't want to see new people get hurt by someone else's ignorance, negligence, or ego. Other than that, Buddhist, Taoist, Sufi, Ancient Egyptian(Kamitic), Indus Valley (Pre-Vedas), Vedic (Hindu), Yoruba, Akan, Dogon, Kabbalah, Gnosticism, Neoplatonism, Thelemic, Enochian, Mystic Christianity, Hopi, Aboriginal, Shamanic, etc. Whatever gets you there (Enlightenment) without harm to you, and others, I say go for It! Cheers!

...Actually, I didn't leave out "Quantum Physics" at all. Quanta - Physics: the smallest quantity of radiant energy, equal to Planck's constant times the frequency of the associated radiation. quan·tum ˈkwän(t)əm/ noun plural noun: quanta 1.PHYSICS A discrete quantity of energy proportional in magnitude to the frequency of the radiation it represents. 2. A required or allowed amount, especially an amount of money legally payable in damages. phys·i·cal ˈfizik(ə)l/ adjective 1.of or relating to the body as opposed to the mind. "a whole range of physical and mental challenges" synonyms: bodily, corporeal, corporal, somatic; More 2.of or relating to things perceived through the senses as opposed to the mind; tangible or concrete. "pleasant physical environments" synonyms: material, concrete, tangible, palpable, solid, substantial, real, actual, visible "the physical universe" So quantum physics has to do with Everything Physical. It's just dealing with things at a subatomic scale. You: "Please don't limit yin and yang to physical energies". Me: "But They Ahh Blanche, They Ahh!"LOL! (I'm sure Cinephiles here got the joke). Yin and Yang are forces. Energies. Composed of Quanta. A thing is a limited (finite), defined structure in space and time. thus we Define Things (give definitions). Yin and Yang are effects, the cause of which is No Thing (Original Nature, Amen, Ain Soph, etc.). I want to sincerely thank you Innersoundqigong. This discourse is a perfect education for newcomers. You've allowed me to showcase one of the major delusions In pursuit of enlightenment. As Patanjali said, "One of the biggest sources of delusion, is the usage of words that have no objective reality". Cultivation practices these days are extremely guilty of this. Throwing words around, not knowing the actual meaning, and context In which to utilize them, as you've just shown, and that astute readers I'm sure have picked up on. Molecules are physical, subatomic particles are physical, thoughts are physical, emotions (External motions) are physical. Any Thing that can be quantified, by it's very EXistence, IS PHYSICAL. Qualia (qualities) are more abstract, but nonetheless physical. As a matter of fact, qualities only exist in relation (relative) to other things. No thing has a quality, In, and of itself. This is because reality is a simulation, NOT an Illusion (get shot by a railgun, and let me know if that's an Illusion). Think "World of Warcraft", or "GTA". A virtual simulation of a world, with characters(Avatars), graphics engines, physics engines, all rendered with code, to simulate a created reality for people's enjoyment. Sound familiar? Yin and Yang being the primordial modalities, allows anyone to utilize them to talk about every thing. Physical, And Mental. When I discuss Yin and Yang, I'm talking on multiple levels, utilizing what I just said as my foundation. Yin and Yang function on multiple levels, both implicitly, and explicitly. Reality as a whole functions on multiple levels, both implicitly, and explicitly. And since we're discussing quantum mechanics, which model are you talking about? The Quantum mechanics model of David Bohm? Which would be the most appropriate for our purposes. He was a ardent student of Eastern thought. The Quantum Mechanics model of Niels Bohr? of Wolfgang Pauli? of Paul Dirac? The Many Worlds Interpretation of Hugh Everett, and John Archibald Wheeler, his thesis advisor? The "Consciousness Causes Collapse of The Wave Function" Interpretation of John Von Neumann, and Eugene Wigner? Roger Penrose's? Briane Grenne's? Hawkings? Which one, which one? I'm fairly certain that I have a firm grasp of Quantum Mechanics, and the minds who laid out it's various models Innersoundqigong But thanks for asking. This is the major point that I want new folks to pay attention to, and research on their own. Most cultivation "theories" are based on quicksand. It's the reason that hard scientists tend to laugh, and snicker when your average cultivation practitioner starts talking about Yin and Yang, tossing around "Quantum Physics" to make it sound legit, & reciting ad nauseum passages from "Taoist Yoga"(Not that there's anything wrong with that). Look, I LOVE "Taoist Yoga". It's an amazing tome (I've had my annotated copy since 1999). But it isn't the end all, be all. Everything In it is NOT exact. Anyone who's done the actual practice ( Which I have) knows that. Your vehicle is a Bioelectromagnetic Alternator. Doing these practices generate physical effects. Period. As you've helped me show here Innersoundqigong, unfortunately, most cultivators don't know what "physical" Is. Spirit is the breath. So when you're discussing spiritual matters, you're discussing physical matters, understanding that there are different levels of physical matter, some grosser, some subtler. This is why most people can't take these practices seriously. Basic science can't even be expressed correctly. I wasn't talking about how Neo was able to leave the Matrix, please stay on topic (And for the record, Morpheus helped him see The Matrix for what it is, and escape It. With both Morpheus', and Trinity's help, he eventually realized, through "dying" to his old worldview (classic "Hero's Journey" arc) that he was "The One", and had full control over the Matrix. Or as the Wizard told the Cowardly Lion In the "Wizard of Oz","You're Already Courageous. your problem Is due to wrong thinking". But I digress). "Emptiness is form". Right, 0=1. I've already discussed this. ANY of the standing gongs will do what you talk about. You don't need "Taoist Yoga" to do that. Pythagoras learned from the Egyptians...And badly. And as someone who both does, and teaches Tai Qi Quan, that Is NOT the secret of Tai Qi Quan. The secret is the one practice that most people avoid like the plague: Wuji/MaBu/Standing Gongs. Get to 30 to 60 minutes everyday for six months, to a year. With proper breathing. You'll then know what I'm talking about. I ALREADY discussed the Fibonacci Sequence, which also dovetails Into I Ching, which I've used for close to 20 years. "Mind and number do not exist". So I guess we're not having this conversation, and you don't need money for anything. Classical physics disharmonious? You wouldn't be typing on this computer without It. Yes, Yin Shen spirals out of the body sometimes, but you don't get dizzy doing It. You might not have enough energy yet. I've never gotten dizzy doing it. But hey, everyone's different. I will say that getting initial control of flying was Interesting (I was doing my best Impersonation of "The Greatest American Hero" for a minute there). LOL! You seem to have slipped into a slavish dogma, regarding "Taoist Yoga". You may want to look at that. Everyone wants to mindful of doing this. Your direct experience takes precedent. You can then confirm or reject Anything that you read. It's what Buddha did, and we know everything he said, and did is true. OBEY!! Innersoundqigong, thank you again, for helping me show fellow travellers where not to go wrong on the path. I appreciate It, and you. Good fortune! Cheers!

At that stage, there can be as many as you need. A body (vehicle) is just a focus point for consciousness to operate from, and through. Consciousness is both non-local, and Immaterial, so It needs a vehicle to function through In manifested reality. We are all made in the likeness of the creative force (Nebertcher, "God", "Allah", "Bob" ) that created this simulation. So like It, we can differentiate into as many vehicles as necessary, at the higher stages of cultivation. Everything comes from mind, through the creative agency of the spirit. Regardless of the level that you're at, life is just a continuous replication of these primordial processes. Think fractals, & the Fibonacci sequence. Perfect analogy is your average video game. You start off at a beginner level. As you acquire power ups, you can access higher and higher levels, that allow you to do more and more things. At a high enough level, you get Infinite lives, and can play as ALL of the characters. you even find hidden ("Occult") characters to play as. The higher level characters ("Avatars") allow you to do things that bypass the different physics engines of the lower levels. We are all living In "The Matrix"...for REAL. Everything you need to know about cultivation can be learned from "Legend of Zelda", or "World of Warcraft". Although life on this plane is starting to look more and more like a combination of "GTA", and "The Last of Us". Cheers!

Exactly! "To Know Truth, You Have To Live It", as they used to say In Ancient Egypt. Most ancient cultures understood this. The Taoists, Buddhists, & Indus Valley folks just kept VERY good notes. So did the Egyptians, but most of their books were used as firewood by the Invading muslims Thankfully, they had already spread their knowledge...around, by this time. Cheers!

Google Powers...ACTIVATE!! nex·us ˈneksəs noun a connection or series of connections linking two or more things. "the nexus between industry and political power" a connected group or series. "a nexus of ideas" the central and most important point or place. "the nexus of all this activity was the disco" You say container, I say nexus. You say tomato, I say tomata. It's all Kool and the Gang. Cheers!

Hi Spotless. Thanks for replying. I have to disagree with you on some points you made, from both my personal experience, and various traditional texts (and for the record, I experienced most of the process first, then the texts just verified, and clarified what I had experienced). The Qi pulsating, vibrating, etc., happens In stages, known in traditional texts as"The Infinite Refinements". It Indicates strong, healthy Energy. A milestone In your movement along the path. Once this process starts, it never stops. Energy is movement. It becomes subtle at the end of revolution, then increases again, on the next level up. And the next, and the next. Why wouldn't you be "awake" (beta to alpha brainwave state/waking trance state). If you're not, then you're either in a mediumistic trance state, ...or asleep.LOL! Not conducive to these processes. The only caveat is at the state of non movement, "0". Thoughts are energy, movement. Can't have movement at "0". How could you know what the Golden Buddha looks like, if you're not conscious? What if you're not Buddhist? What then? This process is non-denominational. To say otherwise is elitist. This is available to all who sincerely seek it, irrespective of creed, culture, race, or gender. Dude, did you just call me a baboon? ROFLMAO!! Of COURSE all you have to do is sit down, know the correct breathing process, and let It unfold. The simplest process. Been there, done that. STILL doing that. It's just one way of many. As long as the alchemical process gets kickstarted, how you got to it isn't important. No one's overcomplicating anything. I'm explaining it from both a traditional, and Western standpoint, in a straightforward enough way for the average person to replicate it. That's what a real science is. Internal Alchemy is a science (Latin "To Know"). If you can't do it, confirm your results, and teach others to replicate your results, then you just have "WooWoo". Most people don't breath right. It takes some time to get them there. you can't tell the average person to "just sit there, and breath". I teach people how to do this on a weekly basis. They relate their experiences to me, with details that only an actual cultivator would know. These are average working Joes and Janes. Let me be clear. I don't "quote and recite". For you to say that to someone you don't even know is an insult. I treat everyone on here with respect, even in the middle of lively debate. I expect you to do the same when addressing me. Everything I say is from direct experience. I absolutely know what I'm talking about, regarding the things I've directly experienced. Areas where I don't have direct experience, I make a point of saying that this is speculation, or hearsay. Shen is not the steam of the cauldron, that's Qi. One of the many definitions of Qi in Mandarin is "Vapour", "Cloud", & "Gas". Shen is beyond that. Your Gross Physical Vehicle is Earth, Jing is liquid(Water), Qi is Gas (Air/Fire/Plasma), Shen is Light (Radiation). This has been my experience. The Ancients said it. And modern science confirms it. Your mileage may vary. Cheers!

The dantiens are nexus points of energy across all bodies. Using the word "container" makes it sound like a box. LOL! It's not. Think more in terms of a A wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge. In the gross physical body, of course you're going to feel it as heat. You have yards of semiconductive intestinal tissue compressed in that area. The tissues of the body are semiconductive. these practices take them eventually into a superconductive state. Physical effects include: Piezoelectricity (Electricity generated by compression of materials. In this case, collagen, muscle, & bone). Pyroelectricity (Generating heat) These are the "Yang Energies", discussed in traditional theory. But we can be more precise In our nomenclature these days. Please reference the work of Dr. James Oschman, for more details. I've linked to a video of his below, "Human Metabolism Meets Cosmic Metabolism": Here's a link to his site, which has various research papers, and abstracts: http://www.energyresearch.us/ The site's user interface is a little weird, but you'll figure it out pretty quickly. "Comments In the past"? I've only been on here for about 5 days! LOL! Folks that are on Lone Man Pai, are also on here. I know them already, so I gravitate towards them. Pretty normal. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt, that they are who they say they are (a dangerous thing on the Internet, I know ). I extend this courtesy to everyone. I ask that others do the same. If this is how you guys treat noobs to the forum, it explains a lot of what I've seen so far on here. Cheers!

You seem to have gotten something a little different out of "Taoist Yoga", than I did, over the 15 years I've utilized it. But everyone's different, regarding the details of manifestation, so it's possible. But I politely disagree with you on a number of points, on the core sequence, from my personal experience. I also like to keep the archaic terminology gymnastics to a minimum, so newer folks can grasp the fundamentals. You've outlined your understanding of the process (from direct experience?), now I'm going to outline my understanding, from what I've experienced so far. From the Beginning. In a nutshell, everything comes from no thing - 0 (Wuji/Amen/Ain Soph/Nirvana). No Thing did this to have experience. No thing (composed of unmanifested Consciousness/Will, & unorganized Energy/Matter) created itself first (1). The now manifested Consciousness/Will, & organizing Energy/Matter then split into (2) modalities: Yin- Centrifugal force (Magnetic) Yang-Centripetal force (Electric) This process of differentiation (the only way to have experience, when every thing is you) continues (2,4,8,16,32,64,etc.). Phenomena (molecules, atoms, leptons, mesons, etc.=Energy/Matter), are a result of noumena (mind=Consciousness/Will). Thus, undifferentiated ChAos ("A" is the indeterminate) differentiates into Kos ("Cosmos"). Man is a microcosm of this process. Qi is Spirit. Spirit is from the Latin Spirare, which means "to breathe". So your Qi body is your breath body. Known as the Guph, in Canaan (Ugarit), Khaibit in Ancient Egypt, Astral/Etheric body, in Western Occultism, etc. So there's nothing "Woo, Woo" about the Spirit, the Qi. It's Physical. It's ALL physical, up to "0". As a crude analogy, it's movement in the body is like a car battery: Tu Mai = + Channel Jen Mai = - Channel Chong Mai = Neutral Channel These energies circulate in the body on a 90 minute cycle. They oscillate. Left nostril is negative Ionic energy (Yin), Right nostril is positive Ionic (Yang). You can prove this to yourself by taking a small mirror, and breathing into it. More air comes out of one nostril, than the other. EXCEPT in the middle of this 90 minute cycle, when both nostrils "even out". At this point, + -, man & woman join, and travel up the central channel, chong mai. At this point we have "Tai". Peace. This energy travels through various nexus points, called "dantiens", "Elixir Fields", etc., where it both collects, and transforms. These nexus points interconnect with the Seven spiritual (breath) bodies, that all people possess. They're not "In" the gross physical body, as most people visualize them. All the various "gongs" do, is increase the levels, and vibration of this energy, which activates a process of "travelling back", from differentiation, to unity, to no thing. Various systems can "kickstart" the process. Taoist Yoga does It. Laya Yoga (Maha Bandha). Meditation. Tummo. The various Qigongs. The primary determinant in ALL of them, is THE BREATH. The breath is the "fire", that lights "the cauldron" (lower, middle, and upper dantians). Physical Transformations Begin At The Point At Which The Breath Changes. The breath deepens, lengthens... Then seems to stop. This is Tai Hsi, known as Kevale Khumbaka in Yoga. At this point, the "Real Yang Qi" (Kundalini) comes on line. Let's be clear. Qi/Spirit/Kundalini, is ALWAYS circulating In the body, at a baseline "maintenance" level. Without Qi/Spirit/ ReSPIRation...your vehicle is "dead" (ExSPIRed). What these processes do, is increase the flow ("Flux"), and vibratory level of this energy. Without sufficient practice time (min, 1 to 2 hrs. a day meditation, both seated, and standing), most practitioners will just experience movement of wind Qi, from the liver, and think that's the awakening of Yang Qi. Or worse, from bad teaching, they just imagine their Qi "spinning" around the Orbits. Once Tai Hsi comes online, the Qi begins to "Pump" in the lower dantien. This is the "real" Embryonic Breathing. This "Yang Qi Pumping" then moves to mingmen, lingtai, jade pillow, baihui, niwan, middle dantien, lower dantien, & huiyin. The Yang Qi also vibrates strongly in these areas. You'll feel heat, cold, itching, electricity, magnetism, and Ching An, which feels like a Spring breeze through the body. You'll also experience "The Mysterious Gate", which appears first in your peripheral vision, then In front of you, as a blinding white light, like a "tear" in reality. Visualize putting it in either the LDT, or MDT, when it shows up. While all of this is going on, Don't Attach To It. You're on your way back home. Stay focused on your goal (Enlightenment). Observe, be mindful, but don't attach. Like looking at people go past your apartment window. Once niwan comes online, you'll know, due to the fact that you'll start to produce kan lu, "The Elixir of Immortality", from not just the pineal gland, but also structures around it. This comes into your mouth, through the roof of the mouth, transforming the saliva. Depending on your organ energy system balance, it'll taste like coconut water (balanced), bitter, or sour. Yes, you'll become clairvoyant. You'll see spirits (which look like plasma balls, unless they decide to take shape), shadow forms, lights. Again, don't get wrapped up in this. Qi doesn't "transform" into Shen. Shen is your divine consciousness. Your true form. As your Qi purifies, you become more aware of Shen. You realize that you already Are Shen. You're already "The One". You're removing your dirty clothes, to reveal the suit of light already there. This is the stage that I'm going into. What I talk about next is speculation. At this point, first the Yin Shen, then eventually the Yang Shen emanation bodies come online. The Yin Shen in the West is known as "The Higher Astral", and can't be seen by others. The Yang Shen emanation body can be seen by others, but according to the ancient texts, can do some wonderful things. Basically you become Neo...For Real. I label this as speculation, because no one can see your Yin Shen body. Maybe you have it... or maybe you're clinically insane. LOL! You could do experiments with friends, but these still fall under anecdotal eidence. Yang Shen is supposed to be visible, so should be verifiable. I'll let you know, when I get there! The goal is to go beyond even this, get to ultimate Yin (Nirvana Nir=No Vana=Movement/Peace), manifesting your true nature-Peace. You can't experience no thing, so this Peace manifests externally as a joy, that's not dependent on externals. An unshakeable, adamantine serenity. You now function from that no thing between Yin and Yang. In the world, but not of the world. And when you transition ("Die"), you don't lose your personality, & memories ("Die the Second Death"). You remember all of your past lives-Functional Immortality (Who wants to wear the same suit forever?) AND, while you're doing all of this, you have to get rid of your conditioned, human, thought patterns, and habits. This is the whole process, In a nutshell. Up until the point at which I acknowledged speculating (People need to admit this more often), I've directly experienced all of what I've written. You've got to walk the talk. If you're In need of more traditional explanations: "Taoist Yoga"by Lu Kuan Yu (Charles Luk) "Tao and Longevity", "Working Toward Enlightenment: The Cultivation of Practice", & "To Realize Enlightenment: Practice of the Cultivation Path, all by Nan Huai-Chin "The Little Book of Hercules", "What Is Enlightenment", "Measuring Meditation", by William Bodri, along with his excellent site, meditationexpert.com "The Serpent Power" by Arthur Avalon(Sir John Woodroffe). A classic. All Western Kundalini books come from this one. A keeper. Read the others first, then you'll see the crossover, and be able to filter appropriately. If unfamiliar with Traditional Chinese Medicine, and Acupuncture (A must if you're serious about the cultivation path) then pick up "The Web That Has No Weaver" by Ted J. Kaptchuk. Then check out "A Manual of Acupuncture" by peter Deadman. I've just given an outline of the Alchemical process, according to my own experience, along with books for you to study, and practice from to find out for yourself. your mileage may vary. At the end of the day, don't "believe". When you say you believe, what you're saying is "I don't know". Believe Nothing. Especially not anything I'm saying. Find out for yourself. Verify. Validate. Replicate with others (I have over 30 students, at present), to verify your findings. Last time I checked, you now have a science, Not make believe. Cheers!