A.A.Khokhlov

Agree. Let me put here one addition from WuLiupai and Yuxianpai Schools... - ...60 years from now when we are all young (well, middle-aged is sill ok) and black-haired, we come together to approve a plan of spreading Real Dao in the West for the next 60 years... I heartily wish this good result to every sincere daoshi here. See you! Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Not at all. However a student should always compare his actions with what his Teacher (or Grand Teacher) does. And try to achieve the same perfection. Agree. I actually haven't started this talk but since the questions had appeared they have reqired to be answered. We are going to discuss on DaoBums only those parts of WuLiupai which are actually a common topic for the entire Taoism. You can try to read once again the beginning of this thread if you have time. So far here we were not discussing methods and their power but 2 simple questions: 1) Have WuLiupai founders Wu Chongxu and Liu Huayang known the alchemy and have they been real teachers? Yes it is weird and obvious question but not for everyone 2) Is it possible to learn alchemy from books? These questions are not acutally related to WuLiupai School, both are important for the Taoism itself. Because WuLiupai texts are a heritage of Taoism being stored in its Daozang. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

False logic again. If two people have different height it doesn't mean their inner organs may differ. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Being profanus, how would you know that baishi ceremonies in different Neidan schools in specific period of time may differ each from another, but the requirement of verbal transmission from Teacher to student - no. We are initiated members of a number of Traditions and know that well. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Thank you for your answer. However please don't only look at meaningless trolling. I'm posting there important quotes from many Daozang texts. I believe it would benefit every fellow member here. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Is there anything else you can notice in Ge Hong words except ancient form of oath? Do you see any words about a necessity of having a Teacher and impossibility to learn by books there? I can point you out. Ge Hong: "Besides of that a lot of the most important instructions are not written there [in books] at all... Since these instructions point to the depths and lead far away, so even if to write them down, yet a person who haven't recieved them from his Teacher would understand nothing from them" Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Please open your eyes: 歃血 shàxuè [smear the blood of a sacrifice on the mouth - an ancient form of swearing an oath] 古人盟会时, 微饮牲血, 或含于口中, 或涂于口旁, 以示信守誓言的诚意 王当歃血而定从, 次者吾君, 次者遂。 --《史记·平原君虞卿列传》 I won't tell you a thing about our ceremony. Don't feed a troll

Dear effilang, I will find time and answer your questions. BTW as you've asked your questions in http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42694-checking-liu-huayang thread - what is your opinion on that topic? Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Completely wrong. Patriarch Zhang Ziyang, Bamaijing: A human has 8 channels, all of them belong to yinshen. They are closed and do not open. Only Shenxians (immortals) by means of Yangqi open them and because of it are able to attain Dao. Gathering Yangqi primarily starts at Yinqiao channel... Physicians do not know of its existence... Yinqiao channel is not a "middle mai". The last sentence ("Physicians...") means this Yinqiao is not from common "extraordinary channels" list. Why? Take a look at Bamaijing, Patriarch Zhang describes its location. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Right. Here is one more lesson of simple Chinese for you: 歃血 shàxuè [smear the blood of a sacrifice on the mouth - an ancient form of swearing an oath] 古人盟会时, 微饮牲血, 或含于口中, 或涂于口旁, 以示信守誓言的诚意 王当歃血而定从, 次者吾君, 次者遂。 --《史记·平原君虞卿列传》 While you can continue laughing at ancient Alchemy Masters. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Nonsense. If I say you that I'm not an extraterrestrial it doesn't proves that extraterrestrials exist. Second try.

Patriarch Ge Hong, Baopuzi: 吾非生而知之，又非少而信之，始者蒙蒙，亦如子耳，既觀奧祕之宏修，而恨離困之不早也。 五經之事，注說炳露，初學之徒，猶可不解。豈況金玉札，神仙之經，至要之言，又多不書。 登壇歃血，乃傳口訣， 苟非其人，雖裂地連城，金璧滿堂，不妄以示之。 夫指深歸遠，雖得其書而不師受，猶仰不見首，俯不知跟 所謂不知而作也。 I am by no means a person, endowed with inborn knowledge of it (alchemy) and it also may not be said that I believed in it (alchemy) being very young. At the beginning I was the same inmature and ingorant as you. But when I begun to observe the great mistery of powerful cultivation methods I regretted that I was released from all that difficulties this late. In deeds of studying 5 canons explanations and commentaries assist much, irrigating them (canons) like a pure dew. But for beginners much remains unclear yet. It is even more true applied to the golden plates and jade pages where the Teachings of Immortality are written on. Besides of that a lot of the most important instructions are not written there at all. The Altar is being build, lips are being moistened with blood and only then, after vow of keeping silence is sealed this way, secret instructions are being transmitted from mouth to mouth. If it happens that a person is not suitable for transmitting him these misteries even if he gives (to alchemy teacher) huge lands and entire lines of cities, fill up halls with gold and jade, he wouldn't get a thing (teaching) anyway. (no one would teach him recklessly). Since these instructions point to the depths and lead far away, so even if to write them down, yet a person who haven't recieved them from his Teacher would understand nothing from them: he looks up - and wouldn't see head, he looks down - wouldn't see feet. It is said right about this: "Not knowing, yet doing".

So you say you are living in China and have learnt Neidan much, and not even knowing meanings from the commonplace dictionary? 难 http://xh.5156edu.com/html3/20737.html 不大可能办到，使人感到困难：难免。难为。难保。难怪。难倒（dǎo ）。难道。难能可贵。 Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

聖師口口，歷代心心，若非心傳口授，縱使三傑之才，十哲之智，百端揣度，亦終不能下手，結就聖胎矣。 Out of 10 learners 9 or 8 are confusing [themselves]. Wise Teachers trasmitted from mouth to mouth (verbally), for centures, from heart to heart. If you have no heart transmission and verbal teaching - then even if you are talented as 3 heroes and smart as 10 sages and know everything - you as well would not be able to start the practice, create and complete spiritual fetus. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Free observation and dictionary lookup lesson for "Taoist Texts" and "awaken". 难忘 nánwàng (1) [unforgettable] 难堪 nánkān (1) [intolerable] 难言 nányán [unverbalized] 难免 nánmiǎn [ineluctable] Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Lets try one more time, reducing amout of text so you can see clearly. 聖師口口，歷代心心，若非心傳口授，縱使三傑之才，十哲之智，百端揣度，亦終不能下手，結就聖胎矣。 Out of 10 learners 9 or 8 are confusing [themselves]. Wise Teachers trasmitted from mouth to mouth (verbally), for centures, from heart to heart. If you have no heart transmission and verbal teaching - then even if you are talented as 3 heroes and smart as 10 sages and know everything - you as well would not be able to start the practice, create and complete spiritual fetus.

Seems you are trying to understand ancient texts using meanings from modern Chinese. This naive approach explains why it is hard for you to undestand Liu Huayang words. You can laugh with your students but you would actually laugh at yourself. See http://www.zdic.net/z/27/xs/96BE.htm , 4th meaning. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Hey "Taoist Texts". If we are done with clear and exlicit words of Patriarch Liu Haichan - how about other 6 quotes? Need more? Give me a minute.

Wrong. 难 不可 Is what Chinese dictionary says

Ok. You are unable to focus on more than 1 thing at a time. See: It was one more simpliest check for our unique super-puper not understanding pro-fanus "Taoist Texts". See what Patriarch Liu says next: 金丹大藥，古人以萬劫一傳。玉筍靈篇，學者之十迷九八，聖師口口，歷代心心，若非心傳口授，縱使三傑之才，十哲之智，百端揣度，亦終不能下手，結就聖胎矣。所謂：饒君聰慧過顏閔，不遇明師莫強猜，只為金丹無口訣，教君何處結靈胎。劉海蟾詩日：此道迥昭彰，如何亂揣量。金丹之道，若不遇真師，實難知之矣。 Wise Teachers trasmitted from mouth to mouth (verbally), for centures, from heart to heart. If you have no heart transmission and verbal teaching - then even if you are talented as 3 heroes and smart as 10 sages and know everything - you as well would not be able to start the practice, create and complete spiritual fetus. What's next, "Taoist Texts"?

Meeting on a street person with real transmission - Real Teacher, not someone who "learnt" from books. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

It was one more simpliest check for our unique super-puper not understanding pro-fanus. 8-9 of 10 would be completely confused (you are obviously among them, see below) and 1-2 probably would be able understand necessity and a way how to find a Teacher. Otherwise... - see what Patriarch Liu says next: 金丹大藥，古人以萬劫一傳。玉筍靈篇，學者之十迷九八，聖師口口，歷代心心，若非心傳口授，縱使三傑之才，十哲之智，百端揣度，亦終不能下手，結就聖胎矣。所謂：饒君聰慧過顏閔，不遇明師莫強猜，只為金丹無口訣，教君何處結靈胎。劉海蟾詩日：此道迥昭彰，如何亂揣量。金丹之道，若不遇真師，實難知之矣。 Wise Teachers trasmitted from mouth to mouth (verbally), for centures, from heart to heart. If you have no heart transmission and verbal teaching - then even if you are talented as 3 heroes and smart as 10 sages and know everything - you as well would not be able to start the practice, create and complete spiritual fetus. You can't even understand the simpliest words of Patriarchs about necessity of a Teacher then get used to look at dictionaries at least: 难 不可 難 unable 难做 imossible to do Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Please see here: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42697-yuxianpai-wuliupai-tradition-doctrine/#entry724202 Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

I've highlighted questions in your message with blue, please see my answers below. 1. Thank you. I greatly appreciate forum members' attention. 2. If we understand why people die and know what effect alchemy does to human body - then yes. It is not an ultimate goal but it is necessary to pass this stage on the way of perfection. 3. Right, human body is of material substance and is of Taiji world. When shenxian practice the last stage - 9 years facing a wall he purifies the body completely. So the body is not being lost but being once again finally united with shenxian's yangshen. 4. If you asking about giving immortality secret to anyone - it is once again a question of a kid with nuclear weapon in his/her hand. It would simply turn our world to hell immediately as every single person needs to pass through perfection process and not just gain unlimited power to become the demon. If your question is about teaching worthy students - it happens. Wu Chongxu was about 200 years old when he was teaching Liu Huayang. There is a number of masters in Taoist history who were taught by Laozi. And so on. 5. This one refers to the part I highlighted with red. Man knowing a secret of immortality in a society is like a usual man with holding bag full of gold in room fool of gangsers. That is why Taoist Patriarchs have always hidden in mountains and almost never accepted invitations from Chinese rulers. Date of birth without date of death - repeatedly for lot of Taoists would draw pretty much of unwanted attention and shouldn't be considered as a wise behavior. Please ask your further questions in this thread, I may miss something in other discussions. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov

Not sure what you are talking about. But we will do whatever we can to advance people in Taoism not breaking our Teachers' directives. Best Regards, A.A.Khokhlov