ilumairen

I'm confused too. :half an hour of watching the wind make the leaves and flowers dance: So, I think our natural state is a fluid one, and 'mind weight' applies to any thoughts or thought process we hold that causes us to forget this natural state. In my understanding these could be positive thoughts as well. So is it stagnation in the mind that is being pointed to with the word suffering? If experience is nothing more than being one of the ten thousand things mutually arising and interacting with the other ten thousand things then there would be nothing that could be 'outside of' this - even forgetting our fluid nature. :shaking my head in the same way I push the power button on my computer - hoping the reboot will stop the long running script that is locking everything up: Experience is. Attributes are this experience stripped down to bits of what is. And mind weight are the things we tell ourselves about whatever experience. I fall and break my foot. This is experience. There is physical pain. This is an attribute. I get upset over what I now can't do. This is mind weight. My Putty cat dies. This is experience. There is emotional pain. This is an attribute. I get lost in my sense of loss. This is mind weight. So deconstructed like this, pain is only an attribute. It is mind weight that causes suffering. But in my most likely flawed understanding of Buddhism I'm supposed to avoid the attribute of emotional pain through non-attachment. Where as I have a preference to love, and accept emotional pain when/if it arises. As always, thank you.

Yep.

Sometimes people seem to like tilting at windmills.

The newest ongoing complaint is about me hugging people when we are on overtime, and with this he has finally made himself known to anyone who is able/willing to see. But to the point... The strawberry story, and a certain understanding of being a strawdog should be able to help you. Wu Wei where you can, but take action when needed. (At one point this man slipped and actually threatened my SO at work. Action was taken. Management was made aware. The police were notified. And a security system was installed. I made sure that people who would let him know of the second two got the information. I'd rather avoid unpleasantness if possible.) People will act the way people act; you can't change that. All you can do is adjust your understanding where it is causing you turmoil. If you want more words, I am here. And while this has largely been addressed to the OP, I am open to any arguments or comments others may have on what I have shared.

So here we are four years later. Every Spring, without fail, he tells the temporary employees strange stories about me. Some see that his stories don't seem to fit with my character and personality, and they return my smiles. Some just leave me alone. At first there were alot of coworkers willing to believe his stories, and management would question me about things he claimed I did. Hardly anyone would talk to my friend. There was no changing this. So we ate strawberries (both figuratively and literally). Things have slowly shifted on their own, in spite of his best efforts. Then came the time that I was off work for surgery. There was a lot of nastiness directed at other people, and alot of chaos. I couldn't believe how relieved people were when I returned. Some realized that it was the lack of having me to focus on. Others just saw that things were better when I was there. To be clear, although he sees me as an enemy, I do not see him that way. He just is who he is.

Then came the time of him trying to destroy her emotionally. She knew secrets about him that could be shared. He went into preemptive mode, and I tried to be proactive. People repeated horrible stories he told about her, and I tried to temper these stories with facts and reasonable observations. I was working against his designs to try to protect my friend. I have been the primary focus ever since, and boy is this man capable of holding focus.

So, the best course of action would have been keeping my mouth shut. I did not. Then my friend stopped talking to me. I was confused, and let it be for a moment. One day I asked why we weren't talking, and she said because she didn't want to. All I could do was say ok, and wait. Eventually the relationship between the two ended, and she began talking to me again. I learned that he told her he heard me saying things that were hurtful to her. It didn't make sense to her, and she withdrew from me. It was the simple fact that I was me, and the things he claimed I said were too out of character that brought her and I back to a friendship that is stronger for the experience. I didn't do anything because there was nothing to do.

Hi Topaz, I work an overlapping shift with a man who is oddly interested in me - which maybe a bit of an understatement. He speaks many words and takes great pains to paint me as an enemy that needs fighting. This has been going on for over four years now. He is a married man who wooed my friend with pretty words and lies. I left things to take their course. Then one day he asked what I thought about these things. I did ask him if he really wanted to know, he replied to the affirmative, and I responded that I didn't like the way he was treating his wife, didn't want my friend to get hurt, and would prefer to stay as uninvolved as possible. Game on. I had known speaking these words was a bad idea. I spoke them anyway, so I do take my share of the responsibility for the weirdness that has ensued. * this is my big stick upside the head reminding me that if my instincts say keep your mouth shut, I need to do just that. (As this could get quite long I'm going to break it up into smaller posts.)

So Dukkha is meant more to apply to the mind-weight we place on an experience, and less on the actual attributes of the experience?

So leth, there is the story of the master who realized he had a favorite cup (or bowl or some such), and when he realized it he broke it. For whatever reason that ended up encompassing my thoughts on the idea of non-attachment. To me that looked like this master was attached to non-attachment to the point of acting unreasonably. Perhaps it is unreasonable for me to place so much weight to this story... What are your thoughts?

Hi Aussie, It sounds like your smiling Bella was a friend to everyone. I am sorry for your loss, and thank you for sharing a bit of her here. She's still making people smile through you, and your fond memories.

Hi leth. Years ago I was staying with my sister and BIL. One night I noticed a fly buzzing about. It even landed on me a couple times. I acknowledged it and went to sleep. The second night I didn't see it right away, and wondered about it as I nestled into bed. I actually smiled and said 'there you are' out loud when it came and landed on me. The next day when I returned home my BIL proudly announced he killed a fly that was buzzing around in the room I was staying in. I asked why, and he said because it was a fly. He told stories after that about me being the only one who would make friends with a fly. But apparently I'm not the only one! Thank you.

I am only one of the ten thousand things, just another straw dog who cannot conceive of some all powerful being even blinking in my direction. I am glad that you can conceive of this. It seems to be comforting.

Hi Everthing, I liked the topic of the thread. I think for some people prayer creates enough openness to see the answers to what may be troubling them. The rest of it doesn't matter.

I don't pray, but I do find that when I wonder about things an answer to whatever question I have generally shows up somewhere. I think there is a certain openness that enables this synchronicity. I believe that perhaps prayer can help one find this openness. I don't believe that I am cared for in any special way by any special power. Once upon a time I wanted to believe that. But it is against my nature to do so, and the struggle to hold belief was detrimental and painful to me. At the same time I am willing, even in public places, to take my mother's hand and ask her if she wants to say her words before we eat. They are always words of thanks, and I to am thankful.

What journey SonOfTheGods?

MBZ, I am so sorry for your loss. Max sounds like he was an amazing friend. I agree with your idea that attachment is part of the game. It is part of our humanness, and, as you wrote, not something to be avoided. I have often wondered about attachment to unattachment, and what is lost from this perspective. But, I'll leave that to those who find value there in... Personally, I don't like avoidance either. It doesn't seem healthy. I often say that people love as much as they are able. For whatever reasons some people just don't have the same capacity as others. This isn't right or wrong; it just is. Your shared experience with Max seems to have brought you to a place of greater capacity. That is beautiful. And, if the shared experience itself wasn't enough, this greater capacity in itself would make the experience of loss worth it. As for your very practical advice.. I wish I had gotten your post before our preplanned and heavy midday meal. During a normal work week a heavy meal at this point helps make it through the week. Yesterday it just sat like a rock in my stomach. Ooops. Thank you so very much for sharing your experience and understanding David.

leth, First, and foremost, I am sorry for your loss. I have lost many people and a few furry friends in my life, but never the person I loved the most. That person in my life often tells me that he has to die first. He can't stand the thought; I don't like the thought. I do think that your ability to manage your life is a testament that your philosophy works for you. Second, as I wrote earlier, my understanding of Buddhism may be flawed. I thought the idea was to finally reach a stage of non-attachment that allowed one to break the cycle of birth death and rebirth. I understand that there are many schools of Buddhism, much like any other religion, and that there are differences in focus and understanding. I meant no insult, I meant only that this is not for me. I am interested if you care to further discus ideas of attachment, or if it is important to you that I better understand what Buddhism is to you. I suspect much of our apparent difference is in the way we are using words... or perhaps it is only what I am thinking is meant by the word suffering.

Wu Ming Jen, Pure wisdom. There is nothing to add. If we want emotional health we will have to enter the tiger's cave. We must allow things to flow as they will. We must not become stagnant. To me, we are children of circumstance - lacking in most of the control we delude ourselves into believing we have. It doesn't seem harsh to me - only blunt and accurate. Then again, I am neither overjoyed or devastated, but simply happy and sad. I loved Putty's personality, I loved his demandingness. I loved how he loved everyone without fear, and would nestle onto anyone's lap. I loved that his warm purring self caused more than one friend to feel so content and warm that they ended up napping when they visited. I am better for the experience of sharing our lives, but that time has now passed and these things that I loved are now lost to me - save for memories of 'what was'. Yes, he touched my life in a way that will carry on through me, but that isn't what I loved - only something I appreciated. Thank you for your reply. You are awesome.

thelerner, Indeed, asking how I can help is wise. For me, I know I will be ok. I will flow through the feelings of loss. I will cry when I feel like crying and laugh when I feel like laughing. It is not the same for many people that I know.. I do, however, often settle on a why. That is that this is the way it works. Because there is life, there is death. Thank you for taking the time to reply. You have helped.

Marblehead, as I've been wandering about here, I've discovered an affinity for your words. You are a mirror that I like gazing upon, reflecting my contentment with the 'what is' back at me. It's nice. Yes, it is in my nature to love and nurture. It is also in my nature to understand and accept that this loving will, inevitably, lead to loss. I am both sorry for the loss of your feline friends, and happy that they found their way to you and into your heart at the same time. Surrendering the illusion of control is one of the keys to contentment imo. Thank you again for your reply.

Thank you to all who have shared your thoughts here. I'm only on break at work for the moment, and would prefer to address them individually when I have had the time to give them the consideration they deserve. PS I meant no disrespect to Buddhists or Buddhism, and am willing to accept my understanding may be flawed, and/or may not reflect in anyway at all the actual practices and beliefs of individuals here.

So Putty is gone; his body is buried between the lilacs. My man kept saying reassuring words about the good life Putty lived. I told him I was sad, but ok, and that he didn't need to say things to try to make me feel better - unless the words helped him feel better. He said they did. So he talked, and I listened. The ten thousand things rise and fall. I understand that this is personal experience that others might not feel comfortable addressing, but I would like it if this would enable a discussion... life, death, love, loss - our interaction with the ten thousand, and how our philosophies, thoughts, beliefs, practices, etc apply to 'real life'.

Yes. Just because this is worth repeating. I'm reminded of a Keye and Peele sketch regarding all of those 'party all the time' songs, and how unrealistic they actually are. Obtainable, yes. Maintainable, no.

Everything we see, and indeed we ourselves, are made up of stardust. Therefore, to me transmutation is a quantifiable fact - easily embraced and oddly comforting.