ilumairen

Kids with wooden planks and ropes..

I'm curious about the problems you see regarding a framework of consent.

Your insight, or the individual your addressing's insight? I believe in some cases the "not me" or "it" is the easiest manner in which individuals can express what amounts to a "highjacking." The internal systems are operating in a manner the individual recognizes as 'off' (having been rewritten/overwritten/rewired/ how ever you want to say it through trauma), and a manner they don't have conscious control over. The poster (as I understand it) is asking how to heal this, and has shared how un-useful certain ideas are in his opinion - which the research in the book I suggested above backs up.

Woodstock is over The cats still purr and cuddle And flowers still bloom

before decadence and gray Tabbies on my lap What more? Love, of course.

what more could one need? Oh, I remember those days.. before decadence

Have you read The Body Keeps the Score? It is about precisely what you're describing here. I created a link for it in my ppd, and discussion and exploration of what is found in the pages is welcome there.

I danced with madness, and then came a day I realized it wasn't about "them"; it was about me, and recognizing the things I had buried from myself... Thank you for the thoughtful post @Yueya

At least your intuition relates to empowering others. Personally, I really like the "leave it be" option.. yes, something was felt, now leave it be.. ("and return" was the rest of the instruction).

To my understanding, the possible explanations I shared are much more probable than your chosen narrative. But it is true, we will never actually know because you didn't talk with or interact with the young women in any meaningful manner to ascertain just what it was they were actually experiencing from their own perspective, but continue to feel your voice can accurately speak for them. BTW If someone looks at you with tears in their eyes, it would be much more open and honest to simply ask what's wrong, and allow them to share what they're experiencing, as opposed to assuming you've just given them an orgasm. What an exceptionally odd conclusion.. I'm not a "dude," I'm a woman, and I suspect you and I are somewhat anathema to each other. You've had years to share more, so forgive me for not believing my commentary has anything at all to do with what you've chosen to share, or the manner in which you've shared. Avert your eyes now... lest I somehow "steal" what you (claim you) are throwing around for the taking anyway, and don't forget to wash my whispered words from behind your ears, lest they actually impact your current thought process. Silly boy.

Nice "go of it." In regard to "Do what is difficult when it is easy" and stuff stuck in frying pans, you can (generally) just add some water while the pan is in the stove too. There is some fancy dancy word for this as a cooking technique which I'm not remembering and doesn't matter anyway.

And very bad understanding of women...

Yelping and jumping into the air isn't a standard climactic response, and because of this the initial experience seems to be something other than what was read and/or projected into it. Maybe she saw something extra gross, or almost dropped something? "Pretending to sleep" is something wives have done for centuries to avoid sex. And yet it was somehow read as indication of (mutual?) climax? Again this reads as false assumption. Or maybe the initial eye contact was a bit creepy to her, and as the focus continued she (subconsciously) arched her back like a cat ready to fight, before shaking it off? Or maybe she just had an aching back? In all three of the above "incidents" the individual was not only sitting in full lotus, but focused on the young women as his own internal orgasms played out.. But let's go the other route, and look at the scenarios from the position these young women did actually sense something energetic. Yelping and jumping.. something someone would do when they've been touched and were startled or didn't want to be touched. Putting one's head down and pretending to sleep is a closing out, not an invitation, and from this perspective the tears speak for themselves. There was something traumatic playing out for this young woman. As for shaking it out, we tend to do this when we find something particularly disgusting or unsettling, and I would take it as rejection. One woman yelped and jumped, another was in tears, and the third shook it off - none of which tend to be indications of having experienced something pleasurable. So in my understanding, there is delusion in either scenario. And more to the point, this would be "celibacy" gone very wrong.

Let me say, what I've found most consistent regarding liminal_luke is his sincerity. And in my own experience what he highlights has merit. To illustrate this, I have "energetic indicators" when certain dynamics are playing out - which would mean absolutely nothing to anyone else. And are therefore generally pointless for me to discuss with just about anyone. Then there are the more general experiences which I have seen others mention, although oftentimes I question the narrative which has arisen from (and to explain) experience. And like Luke, generally prefer to "leave them be." IMO he's being sincere and practical, although I can understand why it could be perceived as "deflection" by an individual who didn't know him better.

Why are you placing other people and situations up as some sort of barrier?

Thanks for your reply. Perhaps central to this discussion, and the others like it, is the idea of personal sovereignty (even if it isn't necessarily recognized as such). And this would apply both to men who fear female energy thieves, and women who dislike and/or despise any form of nonconsensual sexual dominance.

"ignore member" I'd have to click "show post" to see whatever is being word-vomited. Unless, of course, somebody quotes it.

It seems a fitting metaphor. Thank you for sharing it. I'm glad you wrote this is what your teachers say, as to me it reads more generally as "watch out for the ways in which you may fall into patriarchally designated power dynamics." And I'm also glad you wrote this.. These basic "distinctions" have been passed on for centuries, and can (as we've seen numerous times in this forum) lead to some rather odd assumptions and conclusions regarding personal experience and assumed dynamics of interpersonal relations.

The Way, show Them All beauty they possess inside given sense of pride

While it is understandable and actually seems rather natural for people to create narratives around personal experience, I presently believe some of the conclusions drawn may be in error - especially when it comes to females, and his own energy dynamics. I would disagree with this sentiment. There are numerous people here who have shared a great deal of personal experience, and some of them are even posting in this thread. Do you have any thoughts as to why this "dog piling" occurs?

Yep. Do you feel pity for him? And if so, why?

:hands luke a dust pan and continues to sweep:

Here I thought we were looking at the hypocrisy of one "perv" calling out another, and what appears to be the obvious projection of one's own issues with sexual desire as the supposed defect (low frequency) of the entire gender one is fixated upon... The individual in question not only once seemed quite proud of his purported "abilities," but continues with his belief in his supposed "accomplishment," and all the delusions regarding the female gender which accompanied it.

He's got plenty of "acclaim." It just might not be the type he desires...

Yes! And I think the individual is grossly (as in largely, although the other meaning could fit dependent upon one's view) misreading and misunderstanding any possible, potential, and/or imagined energy dynamic. I also think there is a subconscious aspect of his psyche which understands this, or threads like this one would not be started by him - vilifying other men for copping a feel without consent, while he's supposedly gone "straight for the goods" without consent. To be clear, I had thought this may have subsided, until he recently posted about it again in another thread. Here we are, in 2019, and women are still vilified for the sexual desires of some men. How ridiculous. No, the young lady on the playground or in a restaurant (or whatever the story may be) isn't a succubus, nor is it accurate or fair to assume she's "operating in the red" when you're the one focusing on her genitals and sex! Am I allowed to say, "grow up and pull your head out of your ass" in general discussion?