ilumairen

This seems pretty direct to me.

Historical interaction (I entered at page 13): Sorry for the cold popcorn... And mostly I just don't care much for people putting words in mouth, trying to argue against the words they've put together, and basically acting as if they somehow know what I've thought, felt, or experienced better than I.

It actually looked like very direct and clear communication. Do you feel anyone who doesn't wish to listen to you, or agree with you is passive aggressive?

It is not part of my vocabulary or perception of the people I meet in the way you use it. It is something I've seen, and I have never seen anything beneficial arise from it.

Maybe if the process were changed up, the results would change as well.

A doormat is an inanimate object. And I find them useful. A person (any person) is dynamic. And the phrase doormat, when applied to people is rather dismissive - whether a person is applying it to themselves or others.

In this thread, I'm getting the idea of what it means to you. And I've seen you share the very derision you are trying to place on me regarding your perception of people that you label doormats.

Stosh, I find the construct of people being doormats to be rather useless, and often times detrimental. And if there is value in this construct, I don't see it.

And Stosh, I posted about breaking somebody's finger, not exactly the picture of angelic.

Oh my stars! The Original Post contained this, "It's unreasonable to expect everyone else in the world to be as reasonable (and calm) as yourself; some people just are pissed off at whatever, and want to vent and take it out on anyone, you may not have done anything wrong, but the important thing is can you defend yourself (verbally, emotionally, physically, in everyway)?" These words don't read as overly passive to me. And, once again, you're arguing your own constructs. I didn't say, nor do I believe that people are "valueless".

In your opinion.

You're right, you don't know, and while I've tried to openly share and dispel the misconceptions you vibrantly painted of interactions you were not witness to or a part of, the insistence remained. In the interaction of this thread I've been expressing myself and sharing my ideas, and you've attempted to devalue not only the shared ideas (which is completely acceptable) but the value others have found in shared interactions - in very colorful ways.

As the phrase passive aggressive is being used, I looked it up. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-superhuman-mind/201611/5-signs-youre-dealing-passive-aggressive-person

No bullshit. Calm in the midst of a storm. And in the end, the last thing they've really wanted was for me to hold onto words that could be emotionally hurtful when they were an expression of not only what was faced on any specific day, but reaction to what may have come 30 years before. I trust the people close to me to find their way, and am open to discussion - when they're in a place to have open discussion. Sometimes people get stuck, I am human and get stuck sometimes too.. What is it that you are suggesting be done?

Wrong question, as the idea of floor mat is not a construct I hold. I've seen this construct play out, and it hasn't seemed healthy or a nice place to get stuck. Some of the most aggressive people I've known used ideas such as this to justify the aggression that someone else then felt the need to protect themselves from.

And btw Stosh, just to make things as clear as possible I broke the fingers of a man who pinned me to a floor and put his hand over my mouth - broke them by biting hard enough to do so. And did not let go until he got off of me. And then did no more. It was a viable physical threat, and I responded with only enough force to prevent further physical violence. I certainly differentiate between physical action, and somebody needing to get words out. And I can be as blunt, direct, and responsive as any situation calls for - IF a situation calls for it. (Which most don't.) Your constructs are in error.

Hmmm These arguments are with your own constructs, and the people I listen to do not find the listening to be passive aggressive. They generally feel loved and supported. And I appreciate when they do the same for me. Best wishes to you Stosh

Michael, You answered your own question.

I've seen you do this, and I've seen many people not listen to you, although on some occasions they do. Take care old AOL days compatriot.

Stosh, Your reply was interesting... If you don't think you should have to listen to others who disagree, why should (would) they listen to you? And 'round and 'round it goes. To be clear, when dealing with aggression in people I have close interpersonal relationships with, I generally listen until they talk themselves out. It's generally that they've had a bad day and are stuck in their thoughts. And sometimes I say, that's enough. BTW If you don't see the difference between verbal aggression and physical violence, I can't help but wonder if you have experience with the latter. And the idea of 'good person' is your own. I don't claim to, or try to 'be good'.

The idea of being a floor mat is a misconception. It's an interpretation of events, and a reified sense of self, or fear of being that reified sense of self. I'd like to ask a few questions. Who is giving in more to a verbally aggressive person, the one who fights back, or the one who walks away? And would a verbally aggressive person even be in a place to listen to and actually hear any counter arguments? What purpose does the idea of being a floor mat serve? (And yes, I'm being very specific about verbal aggression. If someone is causing physical harm, do what need be done. And then - walk away.)

As many as you'd like. Honestly, it seems this is a common misconception. And a bit of a trap - perpetuating the same cycles of aggressiveness one may be seeking to avoid. And perhaps planting the seed for aggressiveness in oneself.

All those negative words and thoughts he shares are painting the world he lives in. And based on you mentioning responding in calm and constructive ways, I'm guessing you've tried to help him see the world differently. And I don't know how he responds to this, but there are a few things I've noticed in my own experiences. Sometimes the individual will feel as though their experience and feelings are being negated. And sometimes they'll feel better - while you're around, and then when you're not the same thought patterns will arise. And as you mentioned rage, there are those who will fight with everything they have to hold onto their mind constructs. And the only real advice I have is to maintain your center - which is sometimes easier said than done. I don't know your friend. And I don't know how serious he is.. Others here have given some good advice regarding him.. And in different situations I've followed most of it. You're in my thoughts