RigdzinTrinley

...

I read and speak Tibetan close to fluent (ask me in 3 years again) And I feel if someone wants to study IndoTibetan dharma its a very good idea to study the language There are incredible lamas Khenpo etc just living simple lives without thousands of students and 200dharma centers world wide with the same education and probably more practice experience And they are pretty accessible - if you speak the language that is, so that's a good reason Also the Tibetan text are somewhat easier to understand once you get the overall structure of how they present dharma Because they use always the same terms, in English on the other hand each translator(or group) has his/her own ways of translating... That confuses the whole matter a lot Alot more to say about this.. Another time mayhabs

I think i said that somewhere in this thread, I just repeat myself because its worth repeating this Shantideva said: Method without wisdom is poison

I will send you a p.m.

I ate that only once on my life, there is no turning back after that... But alas in bharat (mother india) no blue berry pancakes and real mable sirup to be found

"The spirit of mercury" Ernst Fuchs

May the blue pancake decend on all of our heads equally

Who is your teacher? Listen to him or her Who told you meditation is about relaxation? (Its not about tension either of course) And last but not least: I love your daobum name - its great!!!

I was lying on a beach in goakana once when that happened, hit my arm - woke me up from time wasting on the beach for sure... If that one would've hit my head either I'm dead or at least out for some time I didn't take the message of impermanence or mindfulness and returned to just lying around the famous sermon of the rishikesh babas comes to mind: "Babaji doesn't need much, babaji doesn't need a house, babaji can sleep in the temple, babaji doesn't need a wife or dress in special cloth... But sometimes babaji like a chai and bidi" The right answer is "babaji, would you like a chai and a bidi?" (tea and weird Indian cigarette thing) Edit: sometimes babaji needs to chill

Or cruise missiles depending on the severity of the disorder

They'll need bazookas of mindfullness

I almost wrote about that yesterday 3bob

In the garden of gentle sanity may you be bombarded by coconuts of mindfulness ~chogyam trungpa rinpoche

Got it brother, I shall remain silent then _/|\_

I made dhal out of black moong once .... I can understand the need to make a demonic face after tasting it . Wahaahaahaa that made me so happy

He (already) talks about the ngondros that are connected more directly to treckcho (rushens etc) My lama said everything you do is ngondro till you really get the main point Then even ngondro is the main point JAYA GURU!!! sorry I'm in a silly mood

Not to be partial... In dzogchen there is the upadesha or direct introduction to the nature of mind beyond the 4conceptual extremes That's the fastest path of course If the guru has high realisation and the student has pure view and is of "highest" spiritual capacity - then they can skip establishing the view in this more gradual way, sure Extremely rare specimen of dzogchenpa (Most people seem to believe they are of highest spiritual capacity...) There is a great tibetan saying: "not knowing the nature of mind, but beating on the corpse of introduction" Neoadvaita confusion and dzogchen confusion seem to be cousins in that sense....

I kindly refer you to Mipham Rinpoches "beacon of certainty" (that I called bacon of certainty - thought thats how one pronounces beacon...) Anyway... In chapter three he discusses this point at great lenghts Also in the bodhicharyavatara shantideva has some very good points on that - basically if the reasoning is done properly then once the basis of analysis (the vase f.e.) is shown to be empty the mind becomes free of an object to grasp and will subside as well, that's how the view is introduced Anyway all of this is perfectly explained in those shastras so No need for me to go into detail here In short for a beginner of ordinary spiritual faculties its very important to eliminate the 4 conceptual extremes (existence, nonexistence, both, neither) in stages starting with "existence" The final and actual meditation is beyond the 4extremes, non conceptual but endowed with the lamp of wisdom So mipham advocated both: analysis into the true nature (emptiness) of phenomena using the pith instructions of dzogchen semde and madhyamika reasonings plus resting in the uncontrived state of treckcho without analysis (as well as possible) Otherwise we all can follow a neo advaita guru who tells us we don't exist, these phenomena are all illusion, there is no path, you are the SELF; you're always great enlightenment etc blablabla There are about 20 of those "gurus" liberating sentient beings working in tirvunammalai at the moment... One of them nutsos set herself on fire to teach her students a lesson some years ago (Google radha ma) Oy weh!

"Phenomena are unborn" this phrase is based on pretty clear logic and far from being a koan, the logic appears like a koan in some ways though Its a bit hard to understand (made me hopeless actually ) but once the reasoning settles in - certainty is born And certainty with regards to the view is very very precious. The reasoning has to do with the three gateways of liberation Investigating the cause (emptiness) Investigating the essence (freedom of characteristics) Investigating the result (wishlesness) When investigating the cause then through the reasoning of neither one nor many (where phenomena are shown to be insubstantial even on subatomic levels). the cause of a phenomenon is shown to be "sky like" When investigating the nature (of a phenomenon) through showing that a phenomenon can't arise from a cause different from itself, same then itself, both or neither - dreamlike depended origination is established Through showing that the result can't be existent or nonexistent, the teachings show that the conceptual mind can't conceive of how phenomena arise (wishlesness, or being beyond expectancy) That's a summary and not the actual reasonings - I won't be capable to just write about them from memory, not in a way that "settles the score" they take some pages to develop - the short version might be possible, but thats no real fun... And obviously i can't write from direct experience But the 9th chapter of the bodhisattvacharyavatara deals with those three in great detail Its an amazing shastra! Shantideva was such an incredible being - I'm still not sure how anyone could write something like that...

I'm in tirvunammalai close to sri ramanashram, just came back from buying veggies and having a chai outside the gate Its an incredible place I'm a minority! But that's okay with me I had great interactions with some of the old devotees of ramana, I hope to meet David Godman soon too What to say I'm open to any sort of counter debates views etc. I think its very good to strengthen ones insight Love from tiru to you 3bob

If some wonder about why it is important to know what the sentence "all phenomena are unborn" means Well f.e.: for meditation to be actual Buddhist meditation And to cut through samsara/nirvana simultaneously A quote from the madhyamikavatara: If reifying thoughts had substantial entities (as their objects), they would always happen But since the substantial entities have been established not to exist inherently Without substantial entities, these thoughts do not arise. For example, without firewood there is no fire ... Phenomena being unborn in the three times, means they are insubstantial All conditioned phenomena Are like a dream, an illusion, a bubble, a shadow, Like dew or a flash of lightning; Thus we shall perceive them. ~diamondsutra

Dear dawai Phenomena or dharmin (chos can) is all phenomena internal mind + mental events and "external" phenomena animate or inanimate Think of it as everything possible that could exist "inside" and "outside" of you Now when you say 'born' can you say how they are born?

Yes yueya I know what you mean - also I don't think every single Buddhist in the Tibetan traditions gets a Buddhist education. Some are born cave yogis with a lot of faith in their gurus so straight into retreat with those some just have families and do some virtue etc Seems my teachers saw a potential in me for this kind of training so in their kindness they teach me like that And its not too cerebral if the being teaching has realisation - I'll call it transforming But then again different paths you know 84.000 dharma doors And the Chinese tradition emphasised meditation in nature over study (their daoist roots?) The Indians like both Tibetans like both but some go to one or the other extreme (Me is just a chase study out of many)

Madhyamika seems heady yes, but you know these concepts are designed to self destruct I get your point though, I was never into philosophy when I started to practice I felt what a waste of time Isn't it better to just be present? Something like that My teachers just made me study, and still do (couple of hours a day for months sometimes) I slowly know firsthand why they did that... And I'm very grateful to them Meditation can be transformed through simple intellectual knowing what "meditation" or "being present" means No joke

See if one sits down to actually think about what "all phenomena are unborn" means it already starts challenging our perception of things I won't answer for now I'll wait for more definitions of "unborn"