RigdzinTrinley

after you can use Almond oil or apricot seed oil to put on your skin, should be organic if possible - very nourishing and grounding oils and also warming Actually based on what thelerner said in his post you could even add fresh or try sage or sage oil to the bathtub, or sandalwood oil (in india they use sandalwood to get rid of strange energies) my girlfriend did that with lavender oil for me one time - I felt like earth itself after that bath and slept 13hours straight, I was traveling through half europe in 2 weeks before that, translating for one of my lamas, my girlfriend saw me and put me into the salt bath immidiately - was sooooo good, like a day in a spa just cheaper and bigger results dont use soap when you do the baths or showers, just hot water (as hot as you can stand!!! should be HOT) and salt (all together 500gr for the bath or 250gr for the shower) repeat for some days, and see what happens to your day to day life and dream life also I want to remind you again that you are most probably meeting parts of your own psyche, maybe split off parts? I can't say that for sure of course but I do think it is a better working basis to overcome this obstacle then the idea that magicians or shamans or enteties are attacking you, I mean ok maybe they do - maybe, who knows. but I got a feeling that you are not under any sort of attack from the "outside" I do guess work here, but I will try to tell you why I think it is not from the outside.... you can agree or disagree I actually more and more believe that the ideas of "inside" and "outside" are not a good way to deal with reality when I was in Psychotherapy my gestalt therapist even proposed that everytime you think this or that person is like this and that, has this and that charackter and this and that problem, as soon as those thoughts pop up, he said just stop and ask yourself why AM I LIKE THIS AND THAT, WHY DO I HAVE THIS AND THAT CHARACKTER AND PROBLEM? a 180 degree shift in perception - because most of what we think of as out there is just our "ideas" projected unto something inexpressible anyway. he also said as long as we think situtaions out there, people out there are the source of our problems and suffering we basically confirm that we are weak and victims - better to take responsebility for ourselves and our problems - because then we can do something about it - we can't change the outside world too much to conform to our imagined needs and wants anyway - better investigate and work with our minds that is the same basic working position of all the mahayana mind training teachings I received, so also Buddha and Buddhist masters of India and Tibet work on the basis of not looking for faults, problems, obstacles "out there" but "in here" they are just more radical because even if it is obviously really obviously not your fault but comming from an "outside" aggressor well still its your fault because of previous Karma so one should be happy to be able to go through this Karmic effect and let it go, practice the paramita of patience shantideva says in his "entering the way of a Bodhisattva" there is no greater evil then anger therefor there is no great austerity then patience an very simple example for this (the level of western psychology, not eastern psychology): you go to work and meet one of your co workers, you look at this person and want to ask him "why are you so tired, you look so stressed" - just stop a second, don't ask this person and ask that quesiton yourself "why am I so tired and stressed?" most of our interactions with other people are based on our projections and introjections etc. I also think you will overcome this problem somehow and slowly have alot of precious insights into human nature - and I wish that to you as well stay strong and yes take a break from practice - reduce it a bit and simmer down, integration of new energies and insights is as important as opening them up in my experience

Hi Sunshine, I never experienced something like that no, but I think like apech that its the hypnagogic state and or a night terror (there you can't move many times like in the experience that you shared)- and if that is the case, it might be good to think of it as not "others" violating you, but parts of your psyche being in an uproar. I do work with my dreams and one thing I learned is that all of the happenings, persons and even the places are symbolic representations of myself - not "other" or "outer" "alien" phenomenon, thinking like that you have also more power. Otherwise you are merely being a victim to powerful outer enteties invading your dreamlife, what could you really do against that? If they are dream images of your own psyche, then you have much more power to deal with it If you can overcome this quiet intense time you might find yourself transformed and a better human being, you might also gather useful information to help others who go through similar experiences and help them overcome those difficulties - so be strong and don't give up. I also second Gerard, stop your astral traveling (if you do that) and do grounding bodywork I would like to share a very good method to ground yourself and clean your energies that I learned from my girlfriend, she got it from a Baba in India. I tried it many times and it is the most grounding thing I found so far... do it for some time, it is nothing esoteric involving breathing techniques or visaulizations, very simple and not dangerous and harmful in any way 2 ways to do this, in the shower or even better in a bathtub youneed good rock salt or sea salt if possible not too fine satl crystals. make yourself a hot bath and fill it with around 250gr of salt - lie in it, relax, after some time use another big amount of salt to scrub yourself - your arms, shoulders, neck, throat, chest etc. everywhere let it soak in a bit - rub the salt in and then lie in the water again - as long as neccesary its great for your skin as well, you'll have baby skin again after that bath (but scrub yourself, might be a bit painful but nothing too bad) you can do it also in a hot shower (if you don't have a bathtub) with maybe 250gr of salt - just shower for some time, and then scrub your whole body with the salt - keep it on your body a bit and then rinse it of (not more then once, you'll know why, you be so heavy you need to lie down and chill out after one round of the salt on your body, cover your whole body, also the face but be careful with your eyes) you can chant purification mantras while doing this, or whatever prayers of purification you know some back ground story: my girlfriend was doing alot of asthanga yoga that time and had a major energetic overdose (she had an excellent teacher, and is herself a teacher by now), one baba found here after she collapsed at the ganges and couldn't move anymore, he treated her with very simply aryuvedic food and made her do the salt baths, her energy became normal in about a month or so I use the salt shower once in a while when I'm traveling and translating alot for example or when I'm very tired or some energy is stuck in my subtle body, its incredible way to ground yourself and clear your body energies of impurities, and that in turn might help your dream life all the best, tell us how you are doing, please try the salt baths, any other daobums reading this who suffer from toooo much energy or toooo little energy can try it too, its a great method

some of the most sagely people I met would not fit in to our society at all, at all really (I thought about it couple of times actaully)- well if not for teaching dharma, that they could do but they are not interessted in building dharma centers and having many students either actually they wouldn't wan't to fit in either, and there is no need to fit in and be "productive" if you don't really have to two of my main teachers don't seem to have more then two robes (lama jigme would after ten days of teaching, turn his stained button down shirt inside out and wear that for another 10 days...) - the "room" they live in would be considered a dumb by most people who think to "fit in" is a great thing to do - yet they are among the most happy kind loving blissed out beings I met in my life and not one single action in my 5 years of being with them contradicted the teachings of the Buddha - hence they have food, they have water, they have warmth not much outer comfort but you know if you have inner comfort who needs outer comfort? yet I met other sages who have thousands of students all over the planet and wear very nice cloth and write very wonderful books I do love the rough yogis though, because they challenge me more in a way - I tried to life like that in india for a time, and I just don't have the capacity to do it, so sitting with them, seing how they life is already a teaching, already a reminder that there is no security and no need for security (does that make sense?)

makes sense, sorry again.

Sorry for posting this, I didn't think of it as a diagnosis more like a warning sign for sabertooth....

...

Prof Fuchs died today age 85, for me he was one of the greatest painters of his generation. Some of his students include: H.R. Giger, Mati Klarwein (f.e.: Mati did the Abraxas cover of Satana, and the bitches brew cover of Miles Davis), Bob Venosa, De Es Schwertberger and others I met him on a couple of occasions and also received some teachings on painting technique from him, but I mainly studied with his students f.e.: Prof. Rubinov-Jacobson and De Es Schwertberger Ok some Artwork: the whore babylon Aphrodite and Perseus on the isle of eyes (Arcadia) Job and the Judgement of Paris Cherub of Shin Adam Mysticus Maybe you have a little glimpse of his mystical genius through the tiny pictures I posted (many of the paintings are huge and the colors are insanely vibrant). he had several visions of cherubim that he perceived as luminous beings that appeared to be made out of jewels and crystals - ever since that time he tried to capture his visions on canvas. It is very hard to disrcibe seeing his work in actuality, it is one of the most powerful experiences I ever had with art, they are very exstatic paintings and in some way transmit strange knowledge about art and the psyche - Fuch himself says that he is in trance when he paints If you ever come to Vienna go to his Museum - he renovated an old Otto Wagner Villa in Hütteldorf, its one of my favourit places in Austria and I spend many hours there if people here can read german then I recommend his book architecture cealestis - auf der suche nach dem verschollen stil in this book he traces his artistic development back to his first encounters with the surrealists (notably Dali - they became good friends) and his visionary encounters with cherubim and prophets of the old and new testament - he found what he called a "hidden prime of style" that surfaces in every generation of painters - a style of painting that captures the spiritual essence of humanity he lists William Blake, Gustave Moreau and many others as painters who tapped into the spiritual dimension and could express these visions directly its a great book on mysticism, visionary encounters and art (a very different form of art, that has nothing to do with all the modern crap of the art market) well he said many strange and beautiful things about art and life one of my favourit statements - He said about himself that he was the reincarnation of Dürer

I like this picture of him the most, in that period he created his masterworks (in my opinion). He stands in front of the anti laocoon.

Some more works Seraphim I dont know the title of this work - and it is only a small part of the painting also I dont know the title of this aquarell The Anti Laocoon (a huge pencil drawing)

but the finger pointing at the moon is already so beautiful, for silly sentient beings like me I can't help but be totally in love with that finger seeing how beautiful the finger is, I can sense how beautiful the actual moon must be I feel like sharing one example of that finger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JNaBxyIbic hmmmmm doesn't post the video (HELP?)

yes brother, I totally agree and that second point was hammered into me by my lamas - first understand emptiness before you go playing with tantra I asked three different teachers at different times: my question was what I should study to prepare for tantric studies/practice, all said Madhyamika! btw: to understand emptiness means obviously not to realize emptiness - two different cups of tea. If you would realize emptiness then tantric practice or no tantric practice wouldn't make that big of a difference (just in how fast you traverse the bhumis - but thats all toooo theoretical for me so I let the bhumis be) But I slowly believe that understanding or not understanding emptiness makes a major difference for tantric practice or Dzogchen/Mahamudra practice. basically its the essential thing - emptiness with the essence of great compassion sutrayana: appearance/emptiness or the three inner Yogas of the Nyigma school Mahayoga: clarity or luminosity/emptiness Anuyoga: bliss/emptiness Atiyoga: pristine awareness (rigpa)/emptiness the emptiness part didn't change - the expression and understanding of the "appearance" part goes deeper

Yes true dat For tantra to work understanding emptiness is very important the basis But the practice itself is more connected with yogacara and yes the mind-only model makes more sense in the tantric context. But to establish the view you needs them consequentialist reasonings The middle way beyond conceptual elaboration Otherwise you "create" a truly existent mandala palace and deities On top of your truly established 5skandhas and probably end on the second freak street in lala land Miphams position on rangtong/shentong is basically if you get the main point of sutra and tantra rangtong/shentong is not seen as a contradiction anymore Looking at mipham he feels like a great synthesiser of sutra and tantra - like longchenpa also. Comes maybe from the all inclusive dzogchen view? But I didn't study miphams works on that subject so I can't really say anything about what he means...

I basically agree with Vajranatha and he managed to show that "Great" Madhyamika and the Great Perfection teachings are very compatible still as many people who are in love with the Dzogchen transmission (me included), he seems to look down (a little) on those poor Prasangika Madhyamikas who "don't get it" likewise I met tons of people who got some buzz out of a direct introduction and they feel like all the rest of the Buddhas teaching is not as powerful, swift, profound as the clear light path of Dzogchen; and obviously who would want to study Madhyamika after they already got the direct introduction to their true nature? lets just put that into practice!!!! Well, you know without certainty just the first statement of garab dorje (direct introduction) won't do anything - and many people (also myself included) start running after Dzogchen retreats and pointing out instructions - why? To remember how beautiful it was buzzin around on dzogchen hence we get our dzogchen buzz on once in a while and at the same time continue to happily migrate in Samsara because some most deluded part of our minds is thinking "ordinary confused appearances = primordial wisdom" thats easy! just let it rest in its own place! (well where is the most important aspect of the dzogchen transmission? "simultanious arising and liberation") so the first statement is wonderful and important (the most important the teachings say) but that second statement is also important namely certainty in the view!! certainty in the view of Dzogchen now how to get that if you are like me a poor beggar in pure view of the lineage and lineage masters, wihtout much devotion and faith? and one of my teachers said - if you have faith and pure devotion to the lama and the teachings then "one syllable" of dzogchen - just seeing it is liberation, hearing one word of dzogchen is liberation honestly I can't seem to generate that kind of faith for now, so how to get to the second statement of garab dorje - how to get certainty in the view? a clear understanding and grounding in Madhyamika is the answer - thats my humble opinion! concerning this topic I think that Miphams beacon of certainty is of udmost importance (for the not as devoted types) escpecially topic 3,4,5 and 7 and traditionaly the beacon is thought for at least a month after you got your madhyamika basics down - because its like the icing on the madhyamika cake I don't say you can't get the essence of the second statement of garab dorje without understanding Madhyamika - pure devotion does the trick also (probably even better, faster that is) but then again for me I need to find that certainty through hearing, contemplation, meditaiton on the essential meaning of sutra and tantra and that is a correct understanding of emptiness And Do Khyentse Yeshe Dorje said Great Madhyamika as the base, Mahamudra as the path and Dzogchen as the fruition why? becaus if you have great madhyamika as the base you won't make anything out of it - you can actually stop trying to figure it out and just leave it in its own place also one of my teachers gave a long talk on what it means to liberate thought upon arising - and the essence is you need to have absolute confidence that they are the union of appearance/emptiness - then they have no other choice but to self liberate themselves also if you read longchenpas treasury of Dharmadatu or the last 3 sections of resting in the nature of mind - the way kunkhyen longchenpa is presenting these teachings, how to say? for me it almost feels like Longchenpa is saying "it is obvious you already understand that all phenomena are beyond the 4 ontological extremes - so we can skip that part and go straight to the Biskuits" but if you didn't get that part then what will be the result of your dzogchen practice? endless migration in samsara (to paraphrase my gestalt therapist, for most people meditaiton means = swimming in your own soup)

yes the teachings say that mastering your dream state state is a prerequisite to attain liberation in the bardo of dying I think yoga nidra can be a great aid for dream yoga - so there are similarities for sure I go google incubation and read more about it

One second there: Ma khyab! Or in English: no pervasion there dear mooninite Why? Because what you say would mean that milarepa and longchenpa and many others didn't understand and practice the middle way correctly If going to a cave to meditate on emptiness (the great middle way beyond all conceptual extremes) is not the middle way well then I'm confused! The great lineage of Indian and specially Tibetan masters who realized and expounded the middle way would be wrong (because they spend time in a cave) I was in sankhu many times and there is a cave where nagarjuna did retreat But well nagarjuna couldn't have practiced the middle way because he spend time in a cave? If you go to a cave to "not deal with any of this s*&%" but anyway end up meditating on strawberry ice cream ok - that's not the middle way Sorry my argumentative Indian philosopher side went a bit out of hand here

Yes I second Apech, its very important to learn the different tenet systems - and like I mentioned earlier when the madhyamika starts to be understood to a certain degree, and one can start using it for practice on the cushion and off the cushion, then I think even western philosphy can be fun to look at I want to share a beautiful quote from the pali canon: Māra: "By whom was this being created? Where is the living being's maker? Where has the living being originated? Where does the living being cease?" Sister Vajirā: "What? Do you assume a 'being,' Māra? Do you take a position? This is purely a pile of fabrications. Here no living being can be pinned down. Just as when, with an assemblage of parts, there's the word, chariot, even so when aggregates are present, there's the convention of a being. For only stress is what comes to be; stress, what remains & falls away. Nothing but stress comes to be. Nothing ceases but stress." Then Māra the Evil One — sad & dejected at realizing, "Vajirā the nun knows me" — vanished right there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapel_perilous http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/frr/frr16.htm

Shanti Baba Shanti - what happened to you to be that worked up about a living lineage that is very powerful and beautiful in the way it is transmitted? ----------- my humble opinion on indo tibetan buddhism coming to the west? We should take some more time to create our own version of it, yes I know there are people like whats his name? Ethan Nichtern or something who talks about AMERICAN BUDDHISM - oh come on... then we have steve O Bachelor who does is atheist dharma thing - whatever that might be? who else wait.... oh yes the mindfulness movement - no theory no real defined goal just pure method... lets see where that is going? maybe to very very well adapted slaves of corperations? what else is on the menu? probably thousands of self proclaimed western dharma teachers - "who got it" and know how to free it of all cultural trappings... ya maybe possible... maybe oh yes and Ken Wilber - who proclaimed the what? fourth turning of the wheel - but actually meant the 4th yana? didn't get his definitiaons of term right on that one... to summarize - lets study that stuff a little bit longer (5 generations maybe?) till we make our own system out of it - I think that would be fair, the indo tibetan tradition of buddhism is soooooo big and deep and vast, I feel we should give it some more time to "sink in" I'm not a traditionalist - I know indo tibetan dharma will transform, it has too but I'm no friend of pre mature attempts to create western dharma - how absurd anyway to take "eastern" dharma and make it into "western" dharma... I feel the dharma is what needs to be understood no? not what is eastern dharma in relation to western dharma. why try to make knots into the sky? EDIT: I hope you don't see me as yet another Buddhist kicking strangers randomly in the balls - but you know I don't have a monk like disposition like you, doesn't mean I don't hear you brother and that I try to ballkick anybody I do feel I know part of your outrage - I am guessing here, I have friends who went through similar outrages about the buddhist path (also I had a solid 6month of "F&/% THIS!" after starting more serious practice - vajra neurosis a spot on term by Chogyam Trungpa). I do hope that you can take this opportunity (the outrage) to see taht you are not the clouds but the sky I also hope that you will learn from this outrage and grow in experience and understanding of the human condition I also hope that you see that spiritual practice is about awakening to the whole thing - no matter what! I also hope you can see that its not about solving your problems - it is much deeper work then that - it is about fundamental anxiety - "am I real?" I also hope you can see it like the Zen people - that what you experience right now is "great Doubt" is there enlightenment? are there enlightened people? was the buddha a deceptive being? I hope that you can go through this storm of the great doubt to understand that "great Doubt" is the beginning of sanity and healing

sir, could you elaborate on the greek incubation you mentioned in the OP? thank you

as I love to hear my voice (or read my scribbles) -> the middle way in it's highest formulation might be non abiding Nirvana (the one beyond the two extremes of samsara/nirvana) the union of appearance/emptiness freedom from all conceptual elaboration etc. also I feel the pairs of opposites are not a real problem, short/long is not a problem as long as we don't think there is an ultimately short or long phenomena (I remember being 16 years old and having all sorts of complexes about a certain maybe not long enough thing betwenn my legs ) same with subject/object - once we fully understand that its just an apparition, a dream, mirage, hologram etc. then it looses its spell on us doesn't mean it stops dancing! - Longchenpa wrote a whole book on that fact called "resting in Illusion" - once you fully realize its all a dream, an illusion then you can truly rest "in" illusion! I asked one lama about "how the madhyamikas not refute the self as a mere label on the conventional level" He said that the self as a mere label can't be refuted because it arises if you want it or not as long as the causes and conditions are complete it will arise - just like an elephant created in a magical show will arise as long as the causes and conditions are assambled and complete same with this feeling of "I" to come back to the example he said if you would fully understand that the magic elephant is just magic, just a hologram then why would you be afraid of it? It is not real after all! same with the "I" - if we truly understand how it is just a label - and that labels have no existence themselves, we would be liberated remember the robe in the dark example? its like that So I guess, I GUESS!!! that subject arising and perceived object arising is not in itself the problem - its just how conventional reality functions - problem is thinking its really happening, if we would fully comprehend the dreamlike arising of perceiving subject and perceived object then there is no problem and we can enjoy the magic show that is what I guess, I will actually ask my lamas about that and let you know ias soon as I know

C t in my limited view "nailed it" Let's wrap it up and go home boys And c t BTW what u think is the best book on the karikas? I saw that Thomas doctor translated the old Tibetan translation and commentary by one of the lotsawa (can't remember his name) Its a massive tome - I want to buy it but is it any good Do you know? EDIT: after reading your post again I would like to say that to find out if madhyamika has a proper view or not it might be interessting to read miphams beacon of certainty its one of the questions raised and answered, I did not receive teachings on that text so I wont write about it here, I do share what my lamas told me on the matter - If you want to talk about a madhyamika view then that would be freedom of all conceptual elaboration (thats the meaning of dharmakaya as well) if that can be called a view? well what to say....

we could say that what we work with in life is mere concepts, we think we perceive real enteties, real stories with happy endings or not so happy endings or just horrible endings - but actually we just perceive our imputed labels, thats in a way all we got conventional (relative) reality is just that: mental concepts, labels we impute on reality - thats called the confused appearances of samsara why confused? because under investigation the base for the labels (body parts etc) are neither "out there" nor "in here" we can't find them - still till we get rid of all mental habits - dependently originated illusion like phenomena appear - dreamlike suffering hurts and it seems like its better to be free of it, dreamlike happiness feels pleasant and seems like to be nice to have around. Actually suffering and happiness are just labels without true existence as well - so the scriptures say "why exhauste yourself trying to avoid the one and get the other?" but mental habits are powerful and the underlying subject/object habit is most powerful I go sleep this is all making me feel rather strange - shakespearian is a good word for my feeling

regarding Phyrroism and madhyamika - I met a beautiful scholar from stanford (was is stanford?) ... his name is Matthew Neale and actually he wrote his PhD on Phyrroism and Madhyamika. I still wait for that paper, I asked him to send me a PDF of it... he said is still not ready - or ready enough, I think I will ask him again soon, your threat inspired me, I can send you the paper if he is Ok with me sharing it (if I ever get my hands on it) you asked about peace in the context of madhyamika peace means freedom from all conceptual elaboration, that is also the meaning of dharmakaya for example you use madhyamika reasoning into reality - lets say the reality of your body. a body appears through the force of dependend origination in our conciousness if we now investigate "how does the body appear" we grasp at the body as being "whole, singular and I or at least mine" - if we start investigating we find out that the body is made out of parts - so its not singular if I ask you if your hand is your body - you can basically say yes or no. the first answer would lead to another question: well if the hand is your body what happens if I cut of your hand? do you have two bodies now? or did you become bodyless? If you say no - the hand is not the body, its a only a part then from there we can see that a bunch of "not the body" seem to make up a body similarely if we see 20 pieces of a tree layed out on the floor - they made up a tree once but each of those pieces individually do not constitute a tree again I could point to a nice big part of the trunk and ask "is this a tree?" well the answer would be that its not a tree, its only a part - all those twenty parts are "not a tree", again 20 non trees seem to make up a tree (its actually absurd if you think about it) so only if the tree is in a certain shape do we call it a tree same with the body (similar at least, body is more tricky because there is more clinging towards the body) anyway if you analyse like that you only find parts - but not a singular and whole body even if there is still this clinging towards a singular body then I could ask you " well is there one body pervading your whole anatomy (all those parts), or is there a whole body in each of those parts individually?" in the first case we can check the hand again - there must be a corresponding pervasive body abiding in the hand - but we only find the hand - no body whole and singular abiding in it. in the second instance - if there is a whole body in each part of the body individually, that would mean as many parts as we posit that many bodies we have - thats absurd as well, because I think or cling to my body as singular now where is that body? its not in the parts, the parts are parts and not a singular body but then could there be a body that is other then its parts? no obvisouly not - that would only be an idea, an imputation without any reality so the body must be the collection of those parts - but then again a collection is just a label - its a mental concept and not a real entity so the body is not one with the parts of the body nor is it different, nor is it the collection of parts - what is it then? it has no substance - its just a conventionality, a concept - ultimately there in no such thing as a real body if one would see that directly in meditation - how "body" is not established as anything at all - at that moment also the investigating mind becomes unborn because the basis of investigation vanished who would see what? that is called peace in madhyamika - no concepts of the body being existant or non existant, both existant and non existant or neither existant and non existant remain "body" wouldn't be observed at all and neither would there be an observing conciousness (because there is no object that serves as the basis for the conciousness to arise) that would be peace in the madhyamika sense or something like that.... only talking about it doesn't really do the trick - its important to read, read and read the great treatises with a teacher, and then apply apply and apply them in meditation and see what happens to your life is there less clinging, less resulting suffering? is your mind becoming less stuffed with concepts about "how it is"; "how it should be and why it is not how it should be" etc then I would say those meditaitons do their work - and lead to peace of hte dharmakaya

At seeker of wisdom in the final analysis we are not even a process A process is an imputation like: continuum, collection or shape (all based on a collections of parts or a collection of point instants of consciousness) Collection, process, continuum, shape etc. Are non associated conditioned factors Hence dependently designated mere labels based on respective parts etc. Your ordinary mind imputes a process or a collection or an aggregation etc. based on parts (and parts are also divisible till the infitisimal particle - those have directional segments: up down etc. Those segments have more directional segments and are finally seen as unborn, unfindable) A collection is just a label a conventionality not its own thing Same with "process" where is this process other then in the point instants of cognition? And where are those point instants in final analysis? Not to be found

Nagarjuna is one of the greatest minds ever to appear on this earth and if you are interested in Mahayana dharma or any dharma or any philosophy he is worth your time - he is constantly challenging me and my ideas about what is Buddhism - what is philosophy, phenomenology, psychology etc. (West or east, nagarjuna is beyond such silly constructs - hence after studying nagarjuna for some time - then Heidegger and Wittgenstein make sense suddenly, I can read those guys without western philosophical training and still comprehend them and see similarities and difference in their view and nagarjunas "view") So studying madhyamika is very worthwhile for all kinds of studies you do also in other fields (east or west) But first read some abidharma otherwise madhyamika might be too out there (too many new words with their own definitions etc.) Learn about the skandhas, ayathanas and dhatus then learn about the 12 links of dependent origination Those are all teachings on how we create samsara Madhyamika is working somewhat on the basis of that understanding (it will be easier if you have grounding in those basic abidharma topics: that's Buddhist phenomenology/psychology and in itself mind expanding ad brilliant, madhyamika is like the icing on that cake brother) I second the recommendations of the center of the sunlit sky by brunnhoelzel as an introduction to the material but again I think reading abidharma first might be a good idea