RigdzinTrinley

I'll just share some strange vajrayanist insight to this discussion: it's connected with Ju Mipham Rinpoches well... Masterwork, if you can say something like this about a buddhist shastra, called "beacon of certainty" (I called for a long time the bacon of certainty, till a native english speaker kindly helped me overcome that speech impediment) it regards topic number six of this treatise and is not a technique per se, more an insight, something to ponder topic six is called "what is the common basis of perception for different beings" - if you want it westernized, it means something like "Why don't we all see the same flower?" or... do we? it has alot to do with mind, dualistic mind, because thats what is doing and organizing the perceptions of the non conceptual sense organs bare with me so in short mipham askes and asweres following question: If a glass of water is perceived differently by different beings, then what is actually there and serves as a basis of our perceptions?? so some buddhist cosmology is important to swollow, but at the same time its about emptiness and as I said before its simply a matter of answering the question "why don't we all see the same flower? or do we?" in more psychological terms "why is talking with humas so fucking difficult sometimes? well lack of skill and different Point of View... whats this different point of view about?" so I see a glass of water, a deva sees a glass of amrita, a naga sees a home, a hell being sees molten iron, a preta sees blood and pus what is acutally there? whats the basis of perception? short answer: essentially nothing is there, no substance on the ultimate level - relatively speaking based on karmic patterns and karmic vision a human sees water (shared vision of human beings) while a deva sees amrita (shared, conventional vision of devas) whats the implication of this on the relative level of human interaction? the example that came to my mind: I have green colored glasses on, someone else has blue colored glasses on, we both look at the same white conch shell and argue about its color = will lead to alot of confusion for sure - whose perception is valid and true? usually this leads to alot of arguments on many levels - why because we can't take off those glasses, taking of the glasses is being pretty enlightened I would say. not just as a wish or as "sure I took of those glasses long ago" - lived experience that manifests also in the way we interact with others... empathy, love, compassion etc. not so easy not sooo easy also for the so called dzogchen yogis out there those glasses are how we learned to interpret sense data with our dualistic mind, how we learned to interpret words of others etc. the way we do this is our karmic style (neurosis) from a long time ago, not just childhood and trauma and schooling etc... Mipham makes another interesting conclusion on the relative level about this: based on the purity of vision the perceptions become more valid on the relative level so a hell being perceiving molton iron, perceives validly in the context of being a hell being and the shared vision of those beings - but is invalid when compared to perceiving it as water, which is a more purified vision with much less suffering (we can relate that also on our human level where certain people like to stone woman for odd reasons - that seem horrific in my understanding and toally normal from their POV. I would suggest that no need for being culturally/politically correct here, there is a higher vision and understanding of the feminin in the west and in other asian cultures and that vision is more valid in relation to those peoples perception and interpretation of the feminin) so ther eis essentially no substance and no way to know for sure what we see and taste and smell, its finally ungraspeable - yet relatively speaking there is a deeping of understanding of what we perceive so pure vision and karmic vision are different as well karmic vision or the vision of the 6types of beings: hell beings, pretas, animals, humans, asuras and devas is impure or limited when compared ti pure or enlightened vision that sees insubstantial pure deities instead of "things" -> I guess on that level thoughts are not a problem anymore because there is so much enjoyment of things as they really are: appearing divine and sacred, made of immaterial light that why bother to figure it out with thought or label and name them??? nice to life without those colored glasses I imagine

sorry that was an emotional outburst, I guess I did not "impregnate" her... I hope EDIT: but that theme is part of our relationship dance/drama, the not so pleasant part, because three of my teachers adviced me "no babies" and well she maybe wants babies - a looooong story already, still unfolding but yes thats there as well. I almost feel its a archetypal sort of theme and if you like to dig deeper into that (if your time permits) lets talk about it for sure, maybe in private because here the tantric practicioner gets a bit nervous.... I know her long enough that I did not just fell in love with her and had wild sex (although I constantly fall in love with her and out of love with her unfortenately too, and wild sex and divine sex also yes true that) otherwise deep felt resonance with what you wrote and man you made me laugh strong there ..... I let you know about the pregnancy....

HAHAHAHAHAHA oh wow HAHAHAA either way you nailed it

a truly hermetic answer dear micheal

well said well said well said!!!

good thing about this rigpa business is that you can't say it is this or it is not this, also good that the mind never knows if it was or wasn't rigpa happening in line with that I just say I have no f'ing clue what was that sister! but what I heard is that experience and realisation are different - so my humble opinion is that it was a nyam - an experience on the path - they come in all shapes, feelings of utter bliss, clarity, stillness, weird pains, shaking of the body what have you - I somehow feel if I start talking about some of the stuff that happened to me on this path with an ordinary psychologist (emphasis on ordinary) he or she would probably recommend some pills to chill me out one of my lamas always juggles when he says "you know during monsoon up here in the himalaya all sorts of strange greenery is growing, also in the mind of the yogin and yogini all sorts of strange experiences occur" can be horrific or blissful - "ekarasa" sister, one taste. What a mean and uplifting, clear and confusing thing to consider "ekarasa" one taste.... I also remembered going to this particular teacher once a week and do what is called "nyam bulwa" offering your experiences - and I had weird and magical experiences of all sorts that time - hell and heaven you might say he always said enigmatic things like: "If you think its rigpa then that means it was only mind" or "if it came and went then its mind not rigpa" or "if it is rigpa there are no more questions, hesitations,doubts" etc. after some weeks I got the message that was unspoken "just move on" at least for me thats how I understood him at that time - since then also I treat everything that arises in my practice or weird out of the ordinary states away from the cusion as... experiences not rigpa lets dance!

long life to all dead and undead! I was hoping to get some tasty bits of information from someone of the hermetic order first, but alllllll riiiiight.. He caught the maya-deer with the maya-net. I know from Guru whose story it is. The death of the body is not the end of self. The garland remains. The net cannot catch it. Nor can the chains catch the deer. In the restless race the deer vanishes into the void. Busuku (remember means the one who only eats, sleeps and shits) - so Busuku said first that when he doesn't get the "meat" he won't enter the hunter hut right? I just make a wild guess and the meat here is the meat of the maya-deer that the hunter caught with the maya-net He says "I know from Guru whose story it is" - I would guess that Busuku says here "this" secret of tantra he learned from the master: that the way to get realisation is not to abandon or dispise maya but to use it as upaya or skillfull means - like the famous quote "the relative is the method and the ultimate is the result of the method" only through understanding or realizing the relative, relative means just to remind you: all these illusory forms of our daydream state and night dream state. this dance of lights and shapes, sounds, thoughts/emotions etc - all contained within the five skandhas that you should slay in the first line... so all those illusory forms sounds etc. are the relative - holding unto them as real and substantial things means being caught within the net of maya - now this net of maya as we found out is both liberating and bounding depending on how you use it or be used by it (the high priestress) on the other hand in tantra we are thought that the five skandhas are not impure like in the lower vehicles but are actually the five buddha families - they are divine if one sees clearly and that secret is shown by the guru, or vajramaster so then the meat of this deer? I would say it is connected with siddhis or spiritual attainments, because meat is one of the samaya substances of tantra and relying on them gives siddhi (what that means is beyond the scope of my scribbles and because I don't know for sure what this actually means writing about it - I might create a lot of misunderstanding so better to not share half knowledge) so this meat of the deer, might be pointing to an essential point of buddhist tantra - transmuted perception or pure perception maya (the 5 skandhas) are not longer evil/holy and foul/beautiful, this body, perceptions etc and the emotions are not longer foul/beautiful and painful/pleasurable - this dualism is a source of suffering, but this suffering that seems to be so inherent to maya is seen as great bliss/emptiness - a sacred dance of forms, lights, sounds etc. so busuku is not interessted in entering the hunters hut, this big mental construct or prison of samsaric perception, if he cant extract the essence - that this samsara is nirvana, the impure 5 skandhas are in actuality the 5 buddha families so this deer is non other then the adept on the path, not as a siddha or a being who gained the fruit of this path the traditional example of the stages of a tantric adept is as follows, and here we are discovering stage number 2: first he/she should be like a bee - flying from flower to flower to collect the pollen (means meet many teachers and teachings - taste many approaches) then he/she should be like a deer - a deer is very careful, never too much in the open, sometimes appearing on a clearing in the forest but always aware whats happening, this means that the adept should be in retreat more, focus on the essence of the teachings and cultivate them in secrecy, if there is the need to go out - into the world/human society (forest clearing) then one is adviced to do so with great caution the next stage is the lion - the king of animals, free to roam and do as he/she pleases with true self confidence, this means that the adept has reached a certain realisation that is more stable and unshakable by outer circumstances, so if there is a need to be more active in society then now is the time the last stage is the madman - the siddha, utterly beyond any social and religious constrains, dogma etc. so here in this giti I think we talk about the adept as this deer - and there are also certain threatening forces in the giti, specially at the end. on one hand the maya net can never catch enlightenment or our true nature, because the nature of maya is enlightened - maya can't catch herself on this fundamental level the deer can't be chained either, once the adept becomes a deer - society (as a threatening force that might interfere with the dealings of the tantrica or mage in the hermetic tradition) can't chain him or her any longer, he/she entered the twilight of the forest and society doesn't know this twilight and can't enter and follow the adept to where he or she is destined to go in the restless race (of wordly life,dualistic vision and thinking processes) - the deer vanished into the void

https://www.facebook.com/899135896838084/videos/905856502832690/ still alive the charyagiti

http://parvathybaul.srijan.asia/

Shortest conceivable answer: Essentially enlightened, or the "nirvana that is the utter purity of phenomena" (=buddhanature) but temporarily obscured or confused (I,me,mine and resulting "other"), hence the "Nirvana that is freedom from adventitious stains" (=buddhahood) That's indo-tibetan Buddhist lingo - bare with me

Great answers, my advice Chew on them a little - read them again Basically learn to "listen" Listening goes very deep, from listening to yourself, your body, energy, the outer (natural world) and listening to good advice all the way to deep meditative states. I feel when a human starts to understand what it means to really listen and pay attention - what happens is something remarkable: suddenly there is infinite potential to learn and grow Boredom dies, ceaseless internal chatter gets less, the dancing colours of the outer world get brighter and more alive - the whole of manifestation is suddenly so alive that mind sometimes just stops in awe Oh and relationships become healthy too Just from learning the art of listening You can meditate to escape, suppress, bypass - you can play with your thanatos drive like that , refine it till you stop breathing and fall over - no thoughts, no breath, no life... sure thing. Very male (intellectual) approach if I may say so Mind is a two sided sword - can cut many thing all thing but itself Its useful - but in our culture many times mind is overactive and not under the control of ethics and a genuine life pat

The first line: if you want to go hunting then... Here the 5people = the 5 psycho-physical aggregates (5skandhas) Form,feeling,perception,mental formation and consciousness What makes up "Samsara" That might help to understand the deer better too The deer in our european celtic roots was very important right? Any thoughts on that in relation to this doha? Tarot wisdom is highly appreciated of course (Nungali? Michael? Apech? ZYD? - anybody still around in this thread?) Who or what is this deer? Its such a beautiful image in this giti

Before we move further into the next Doha, I would like to hear more about the deer I feel to unlock this particular charyagiti understanding the image of the deer is essential - I have an idea of course but I'll be quiet "Keeping quiet" by the way is in line with being a deer...

There is nothing like reading longchenpas works and getting teachings on them - probably practicing them is great too but I'll keep that for another lifetime first I'm happy knowing this exists and is still thought to human beings and others Amazing!! AhLaLaHo!!! Also I request you to try to receive the nyingthik yabshi empowerments (I think I said that before) Especially the lama yangtik The heart of the heart essence teachings, incredible!!! Those empowerments are among the most powerful formal dzogchen empowerments that still are given in public (in exile at least - in Tibet, very rare to get them, usually only for a select few disciples at a time), in exile like Nepal India Sikkim etc. its possible to receive them more openly Why do I write about the nyingthik yabshi in the context of longchen rabjam? Well rigpawiki might help I'm too lazy And concerning longchenpa and his enlightened mind and lineage of transmission - I can just bow down, I know you don't like that, but that's all I can do after all the love and kindness he and his lineage has given me I'm turned dumb deaf and stupid so I can just bow down A true Dharmakaya buddha in realisation, writings, words, lifestyle etc. In short a perfect being like shakyamuni buddha I received teachings and transmissions for some of his resting texts (resting in illusion or "Maya yoga" tib:gyumai ngalso and resting in the nature of mind tib: semnyi ngalso) And some of his 7 treasuries Incredible! really incredible teachings and treatises - priceless (you can download them in Tibetan for free, or get them in a bound version for free from Taiwan or at the nyigma monlam in bodhgaya - that priceless they are for tibetans. Well many in the west still milk the dharma, thats how most of us approach it so then we gotta pay for wang, lung, tri in the wildwildwest - sorry for looking down at the Occident + dharma once in a while, I try to get better)

If you mean subtle energy that guides and inspires... Like "being an inspirational and guiding presence" type thing... I mean I guess that's what you mean? If you mean that - then I would simply say "let your actions speak" And investigate why you want to be an inspirational presence? Why do people want to guide abd inspire? Why do I want to guide and inspire others? + Most human beings don't perceive subtle energy - they do perceive our actions and how we interact with them Who we are for them... They don't need more leaders brother they need brothers and sisters that walk together with them (my humble opinion) Based on the harmony of our mind/heart, word and action they will judge us to be trustworthy or not If I see you as someone I can trust and rely on, I'll go to you for some guidance - I wouldn't really care aboit some subtle juju that you might or might not emit Just my ramblings, no need to take them too seriously

I once translated dharma teachings for two BMW managers in retirement, one them was the senior vice president of the whole BMW group He is also a prof. for leadersip managment etc on one of the German universities (Munich I think) Very wonderful old man,deeply spiritu as well He gave 3talks for the head abbot, rinpoche and senior monks on leadership - basically priceless stuff also for me One thing that I remember: to be a leader ibstead of just a manager one needs to take the responsibility for every worker, if something goes wrong its not the fault of the worker but the leader - and if the project works out its not because of the leader but his co workers That inspires people to work with you and under your guidance (trust) He also said you need strong ethics and moral integrity, unshakeable - then even if the going gets rough (loosing millions of euros, firing many good people because of that etc.) So even if there are bad times, if you have a strong charakter - based on ethics and virtuous mind, you won't loose your head and people won't let you down I miss the man, talking with him was great

I'm his translator and student for some years Just wanted to be sure its him

Well then I would say Pragmatism is far from the buddhas and nagarjunas enlightened view of dependent origination/emptiness Truth can be known, reality or the suchness of reality can be known through meditating on the correct view (that would be the lab experiment to check if the philosophy is working or not) And that view is much deeper then "all views are relative - question everything" and if one looks into the great debates in India, neither the Buddhist schools nor the nayayika, samkhya, jains etc. ever approached the biscuits with an attitude like: "everything is relative so everything should work". I guess they wouldn't be pragmatist then? But I don't know those terms to well... Anyway I have to say I'm too lazy to work out how madhyamika fits into the western philosophical world - I let the buddhologists do that

Dear CT Which Chamtrul Rinpoche are u quoting?

EH MA HO!

I would say: What could be healed is essentially broken - unfixable, a dream character Now its good to heal and evolve the dream character a little, but no need to fixate on that Just leave the dream character in his/her own place like an old man observing children's play

You sir didn't make a koan you are a koan

I don't think this will satisfy ralis but anyway that was just recently A nyinghtik Khenpo in tibet did shrink to the size of a child. some wondrous signs like mild earthquake, sandal fragrance around the kudung and couple of rainbows in the sky I saw one picture of a masters robes with no master left inside - that's of course hardly a proof Anyway I did see and experience a master in tukdam after death - pretty far out already, but I never saw a rainbow body in the sense it is discussed here. I was told that rainbow body is attained during life - and when the samaya between guru and disciple is pure then the adept will manifest outer signs of accomplishing the rainbowbody after death or during the death process

I don't believe in the concept of work that most people in Europe have adopted Its pretty sick if you ask me