Robin

I'm not sure. I think this is a very Tibetan approach, and that maybe some people's attempts, whether conscious or unconscious, to fit what Bruce is doing into that model can cause confusion and potential difficulties. Myself included.

I do feel many tangible benefits, but if there is a sour taste, either from my own lack of acceptance or some real or imaginary fault on the part of the teacher, it does effect the experience of practice for me, at least temporarily. I've been round this before though so it may resolve in time. It can be a a good opportunity to shift focus to teachings I've received from other sources...

Thanks Jess.O. You are probably right, but there's a couple of "gotchas". One is that no one else, so far as I know, teaches inner dissolving, which is a path I have gone quite a way down with Bruce. There are other meditation teachers I respect, but it's quite a thing to give up on something that has become so much part of my life. Also, there's a bit of unease around having "dissed" my teacher. I don't think it's a huge deal, but I do understand the sentiment of not "biting the hand that feeds you." Mind you, you'd think from some of the messages I've received that I'd committed some kind of sacrilege just daring to suggest that sunshine doesn't always shine out of Bruce's ass! I think for a while I need to emphasize the practices I've learned from other teachers over the years, but at the same time I've got quite a good groove going with Bruce's stuff, much of which I got via his instructors.... Hopefully clarity will emerge soon...

I'm looking for some videos which build on Lam Kam Chuen's excellent series ( ) I want to increase the duration of my practice and also learn some more advanced postures/internal work. I am aware I could do this without videos/with a teacher, but I'm specifically interested in practice videos - either online or to purchase. Any suggestions/recommendations? It doesn't have to be the same exact system, but I like the overall style and approach.

OK, I'm going to bite the bullet. I may post here again about it once I've worked with it for a while.

I like the look of this guy's work. He talks about and uses the kwa, which is pretty crucial in all chi work, as far as I can tell. The production of the videos on YouTube is a bit iffy though and the DVD is a a bit more expensive than I would like.

I'm curious to hear about some people's understanding of progression in meditation. As an analogy, I'm an amateur computer programmer. I have spent a lot of time teaching myself from various sources. I also recently took a MOOC (massive open online course) in programming. The course was very well designed with a clear structure and progression from complete basics to more complex material. This was very useful for a couple of reasons. One is that in “submitting” to an externally imposed structure, I was encouraged to look at material that might either not have occurred to me to look at, or been too difficult or to easy. So an external structure can help to reduce the “Swiss cheese” phenomenon, which is a major pitfall in self-education. It also builds on basic skills with clear sense of direction and development. I have not come across many meditation teachers or traditions where this kind of clear progression is used or emphasised. It’s often been something of a “buffet” of various techniques which I can try and use as I see fit, with no clear signposts as to when and how to develop my practice. While I really value this kind of experimentation and empirical research, and believe that it is actually indispensable for empowerment and maturity as a practitioner, nonetheless I also believe that external structures for progression are extremely important. It would perhaps be foolish and conceited of me to imagine that I can educate myself in any subject better than teachers who have learned it thoroughly with the support of a tradition, and who have designed a curriculum based on years of experience of teaching and practicing. I’m also aware that practice often is circular, and so called “beginner’s” practices can also be used further down the road as “advanced” practices. I’ve been told d that a certain very simple Dzogchen practice is all that is needed for complete enlightenment, but that many people aren’t happy with simplicity, and so there are more complex practices to satisfy them. I feel that at my particular stage of my meditation journey, it would be good to undertake some kind of meditation equivalent of a MOOC with a really good “spiritual university,” to make sure my foundation is solid and help me on my way. I’d particularly like to hear any thoughts on this from a Theravada, Mahayana, Bon, Hindu or Taoist perspective.

Thanks RigdzinTrinley, That's a very interesting and helpful perspective. I'm hearing you say both paths are very effective and valuable, but that depending on various factors one may be more suitable than another at a given time in one's life.

IMO choosing one practice and sticking to it is very useful and cultivates some important qualities, including discipline. However, surely it's one side of a duality which must/will turn into it's opposite. Stability and consistency if taken too far (a very relative term I know) will lead to stagnation, lack of inspiration/creativity and "not being in tune with the energy of the moment which has moved on from what it was before." Perhaps? Lam Kam Cheun's book has several postures, including some advanced ones, so I don't get the impression the he himself advocates just one posture, although he does suggest building up time in particular postures, and if we have limited time to practice that might well equate to only doing one. As for if standing is enough, I agree that there are many ways to skin a rabbit. It is for some, not for others. I would say though that whatever else is done, a few minutes a day spent in a standing posture with good alignments and breathing has good to be good for your health. Anyway, to reiterate and clarify my original request, I'm not in this instance looking for advice on what/how to practice. Instead I want a resource which will help my partner and me to practice together with our very different levels of experience and motivation. I want increments in length so I can get more work done in a session while my partner can begin to feel more and more benefits to her health and well being. There are actually a whole load of DVDs available on Amazon (tax avoider alert). I will probably just order a couple and see what I get. However, recommendations are always useful. It would be good to have sessions of different lengths to do along with the videos - e.g 10mins, 15mins, 20mins etc. for different occasions.

As I've mentioned in another post, I've been meditating for a long time in a particular tradition and am now exploring other paths. It's a bit overwhelming to see just how many teachers and traditions there are out there, each with it's own take on spiritual development. One big distinction seems to be the (apparent?) Theravada/Mahayana divide, which I think represents a much more general categorization than is found just within Buddhism: On the one hand there is self-reliance and seemingly "down-to-Earth" practices which don't involve much cognitive dissonance for the average western-atheistic-mainstream-scientific worldview. On the other, there is reliance on blessings, transmission and lineage, and all manner of phenomena that are generally beyond the pale of the mainstream western mentality, such as psychic events and suspension of the usual behavior of the "laws" of physics. I’m curious to hear which path some of you have chosen, and why. Or perhaps some of you make use of elements from both approaches, and this works for you too? I ask to help meet my needs for learning, exploration and sharing.

I think "just sitting" is a very useful practice and at times the best thing to do. However, I'm open to the possibility, which has been suggested to me by some fairly experienced meditators, that there is such a thing as an "hourly rate of pay" as a metaphor in meditation. The idea is that whereas some more foundational practices might provide 1 unit of benefit/progress per hour spent practicing, other more advanced practices can yield a MUCH higher rate, perhaps 100 units per hour. (Of course how well any practice is done will effect this too). This could be nonsense, but if it were true, it would be a pity to miss out on the opportunity to go further and quicker to wherever we are trying to get. I'm also aware that the desire to get somewhere is considered the very problem which creates the need to meditate in the first place...

I'd like to understand better the distinction between shamantha and vipassana practices. I'm also curious where other types of meditation fit in, such as "resting in pure awareness," or working with an agenda (deliberately bringing up feelings and thoughts related to a particular issue the we want to resolve at a core level, and then letting the charge dissipate, either through simply "hosting", or using the breath to release the energy or some other technique). I guess there's a whole load of more "energetic" practices which overlap with "meditation," and/or are considered by their proponents to be meditation. Perhaps all the more reason to find a reliable guide...

Thanks for the advice guys. However, I should probably mention that I have practiced qi gong for over 20 years and I know many moving forms. The reason I want videos is that my partner is less motivated than me to learn and practice, but we have found that Lam Kam Chuen's videos are a way we can practice together that works well. I'd like to build up the time spent in the postures in small increments, and also start doing some of the weight-shifted postures shown in Lam Kam Chuen's book "The Way of Energy." I like this guy's videos: but would enjoy some variety in the postures...

Thanks for the info guys. If anyone is fairly knowledgeable about mindfulness practices, is there any recommendation as to when to practice awareness of breathing vs when to practice body scanning? Is one considered to be more "advanced" than the other, as in, for example, once the awareness of breathing is strong and clear, it's better to do the body scanning? Also where/when does cultivation of metta begin/fit in to this? For example, is it a good idea to keep two practices going at once (as in metta for one session a day, body scan for another)? I know I could easily just experiment with all this, and indeed I have/am, but I want to know if there is a body of collective experience/knowledge which suggests that certain combinations/sequences of the various mindfulness practices have been found to be more effective/efficient than others.

Some concerns and unanswered questions regarding learning Taoist Meditation with BK Frantzis The context of the following points is of my having practiced Taoist Meditation as taught by Bruce Frantzis for about fifteen years, with annual attendance at his meditation-related teachings and a practice schedule of one to two hours a day. Prior to that I had studied with senior EA instructors for nearly a decade, so I’m talking from a position of some experience, rather than hearsay or just having read some books. I have recently decided to take a break from the practices Bruce has taught me, and am re-evaluating my relationship to him as a teacher. Obviously I have got a lot from the practice of Taoist meditation or I wouldn’t have stuck with it for so long. However, the focus of this post is on the less positive aspects of my experience. · Bruce learned much of what he teaches studying one-on-one with his main Teacher Liu Hung Chieh for several hours a day over several years. He says in his books that personal feedback from a genuine master is essential for making progress and avoiding delusion. However, he doesn’t offer this kind of personal feedback. Instead, in my experience, he is not very approachable - in fact he can come across as very unfriendly. He will answer questions (in a manner that often comes across as reluctant and condescending), but in my experience he doesn’t always listen carefully or understand exactly what is being asked. The idea of having a relaxed, nuanced conversation with him about my practice seems impossible. This is in spite of the fact that in order to have the opportunity to talk to him I might have spent a lot of money and travelled a long way. · For some reason, there appears to be NO ONE else outside of China (excepting a few of his senior instructors) who teaches the method of Inner Dissolving from the tradition he claims to be part of. Perhaps when he started teaching, this was understandable what with the language barrier and general level of cultural exchange, but now, decades later, why are there no other representatives of the “Water Tradition” offering their teaching to westerners? · Whatever the reason for the last point, the situation is very unusual and prone to difficulties. After all, there is no realistic source of verification or alternative perspective or simply the opportunity to learn the same method from a teacher with a different personality. · Bruce is a student of Dzogchen master Wangdor Rimpoche, who has another student, Lama Lena, who offers much more support than Bruce. She told me that she only takes on as many students as she can maintain a personal connection with, and makes a point of always replying to emails written by students since she recognises how much effort and care has been put into writing them. Bruce has on a couple of occasions replied to messages from me on Facebook, for which I am grateful. However, one of these replies took over a year, and one message had no reply. · I understand that Bruce has many students and cannot be available to everyone. This seems fine for health practices, but when it comes to meditation, I find myself wondering if he is spreading himself too thin to make the path he teaches genuinely viable, in the absence of anyone else from his lineage available to offer guidance, feedback and support. · There sometimes seems to be a lack continuity or follow-up between mediation teachings. For example, one year in Oxford Bruce taught about how to dissolve the mind directly without going via the body, and another year he taught the use of sound to work with the first three energy bodies. Neither of these teaching had any follow-up as far as I know. There are also lots of audio and video resources available, which is great. However, without some guidance, it’s hard to know which of the many aspects and practices to work on at any given point. Bruce’s quote from Liu of “So, you’re a baby then, who needs to be told what to practice?” doesn’t quite sit right with me given the difference in learning contexts - ie intensive daily observation and input vs. annual workshops with many other students. · Maybe it’s a small deal, but why does Bruce feel the need to spend so much time talking about his achievements and just how amazing he is? For me it goes beyond instilling confidence in his credentials or the power of the practices and becomes somewhat grating. · The sense of always more - there is something about the way Bruce presents his teaching that I hear as implying that we as students are really complete beginners however long we might have been learning. Years ago a student of his who had left him said that it took meditation away from being a basic human activity everyone can do to something very elitist that you need special transmission in order to do properly. This a perspective shared by some Buddhist schools as well. It might well be the case, but there might also be an element of “the Emperor’s New Clothes” going on. It’s hard to say, and is a point of discernment. · Finally, in my recent research into alternative spiritual paths and teachers, I came across an article about Zen meditation in which the author wrote that to consider that someone is your teacher, you must see them in person a least once a year and they must KNOW YOUR NAME! Perhaps the crux of my whole experience here is that I predict a low probability that Bruce could remember my name unprompted, in spite of the time, effort and money I have put into learning from him. Of course one could argue that he has given me a great gift by sharing the teachings, and is in no way beholden to me, but regardless, there’s something about the totality as my experience which “doesn’t feel quite right.” The reason I’m going into so much detail and thinking and writing about all this is that it is actually a very big deal to move on from a mediation teacher and practice that has been a huge part of my life over such a long time. I think ideally I would not make this change, but with things as they are and not knowing how to address them, it feels more true to myself to cut myself adrift and see what else comes my way re spiritual guidance. It’s hard to measure the benefits I’ve received through my loyalty to this path, although I expect they are immense. I’d like to feel more at peace and have some resolution with Bruce around my experience, but maybe for now I need to allow myself to feel a bit angry and disillusioned in order to help me make the transition to the next stage of my journey. ***** I'm curious to read any constructive comments and/or feedback from what I've written. Has anyone here had similar experiences either with Bruce or any other teacher? I'm off to a weekend retreat on Mindfulness today. Should be interesting....

Thanks for this. I've actually been investigating this guy as a potential teacher for a while now. I've got three of his books and have participated in some online teachings. I really like the clarity of his teaching, and the practices seem to go very deep. I also enjoy his apparent humility and his sense of humor. This sounds reasonable. One of my expectations, (or requirements even) re a teacher is that it should be fairly easy to get answers to specific practice questions that arise from long term practice. This was not the case with Bruce. Even when I did get a chance to ask something face-to-face, he would not really listen to what I was saying, so his answers often missed the point. This is especially problematic when there is AFAIK no one else outside of China who knows anything about the specific methods which he teaches. This just seems too untenable for a serious practitioner to accept. Bruce suggests that there are much more advanced levels than what I already practice. This year he taught a more advanced seminar on using the left, right and central channels. However, it's all very piecemeal and as I say there's no opportunity to discuss when and how to integrate these deeper aspects in relation to my particular level of development. Without the channel of communication more clear, I no longer feel inclined to go further down this path. Bruce intends to set up a Taoist retreat center with will help to address some of the types of problem that I've experienced, such as the pitfalls of the seminar format. This will probably be great. However, there's something about the "one man show" aspect of what he teaches which I think will always bug me. His senior instructors may well become excellent meditation teachers, but everything they teach will have come through Bruce. I've been willing to have the level of trust and faith that this bizarre situation requires for a long time, but for now that is no longer the case.

Thanks for your replies guys. Of course you're right about this. However, the difficulty with this is that Bruce doesn't actually present himself as "just a human being". He has a massive presence and boasts so much about his achievements that it's actually hard to see the "normal" human beneath. I don't think I've ever seen him express vulnerability.Of course it's there, just hard to discern, especially if you're not looking for it... Thank you for the empathy. It's definitely is a big deal, but I understand that it is part of my journey. A very interesting point. BFK always claims to be passionate about teaching meditation, but the story about how he came to start doing it seems to involve some strong encouragement from Liu and some resistance from Bruce - I've often had the sense that it's something he does to pay off some karmic debt rather than from genuine gladness - perhaps that explains his apparent aloofness towards me and others who he doesn't respect as fighters? Bruce's answer to this is that Liu died before completing the final stage of Inner Alchemy with him. He now looks to Wangdor Rinpoche as someone who can possibly help him to complete the work, albeit from a different tradition. Bruce maintains that Dzogchen and Taoist Meditation have a common root.

Hi there, I live in Devon, UK - a very special part of the world IMO, very green and vibrant. I've been practicing energy arts and Taoist meditation as taught by BK Frantzis for a long time (20+ years), and I'm recently moving away from that and exploring different avenues of spiritual growth including Zen and Mindfulness training. I'm actually going through a bit of a wrench around changing teacher and have written a post I'd like to share here and maybe get some feedback. Looking forward to connecting with a few of you. Robin.