Wilhelm

It's pretty simple, really. You know how you keep saying about how too much sitting creates stagnation? Well Damo thinks so too. So he includes Dao Yin and Qigong training alongside Nei Dan to account for this. These are the moving and dynamic exercises you are keen on that help balance all the sitting from Nei Dan. He is not saying that Qigong and Dao Yin are Nei Dan, that is your misunderstanding. Edit2:

To be clear, do you mean to say there are schools that purport to complete the Dan itself using ONLY moving exercises? Or were you saying that there are schools who only use moving methods, but that their aim is not to create the Dan (I.e. there are schools that practice moving Qigong but not seated work). I have never heard this term moving Nei Dan, and so am confused (which happens a lot, as my knowledge on Daoism is very limited). I don't know what Dazuo is, and I'm not sure if that was a typo but you seem to be saying seated methods have no relation to Nei Dan? On the one hand I agree that seated methods alone can contain problems, but I'm not sure what you're basing your other points off of.

Ok. I think the meaning transfers over well, but generally wouldn't encourage dot-joining comparisons between Fabrizio Pregadio's work and Damo Mitchell's school simply on the basis that they're both speaking on Northern Daoism. I know you have your own opinions about Northern Daoism but I feel the need to re-iterate that many different approaches come from this one tradition. Wang LiPings methods - for example - look almost nothing like Damo's, at least at the foundation stages. That said, Damo's methods for 'laying the foundations' of alchemy are contained both in the weekly program of his online course and a separate module called 'Foundations of Alchemy', which I am actually progressing through as we speak. Though all the methods are indeed seated (as I believe all true Nei Dan methods are), I also feel the need to re-iterate that they are taught within a wider spectrum of moving and standing exercises including Qigong, Dao Yin, and Internal Martial Arts. I know these disclaimers might seem like a bit much, but I am already familiar with your thesis that 'Northern Daoism is only sitting and therefore is too Yin', so I am trying to actively avoid this point of conversation again 😅.

The chapter on sitting isn't a method in itself, it's just teaching proper posture for sustained seated work, as well as various mudras. To answer your question, where are you quoting 'laying the foundation' from?

Nope He teaches Dao Yin and Qigong as prerequisites to Nei Dan, but not as part of Nei Dan. I've got the books if you want to cross-reference the misquote

I was a delusional young man who thought X-Men was real and cultivating was about having superpowers and probably lots of sex. Luckily there were a few people in the forum who shared this view, and a few with a bit more sense who gave an alternative viewpoint!

Apples and oranges. This article describes a foundational breathing process quite separate to the scholar and martial breathing previously discussed

For the sake of the OP, I'm going to respond to you by PM, so that this thread can be saved for relevant information

Yeah, theory definitely helps. I don't know what initial methods you're talking about do I can't comment, but as far as what and what isn't Nei Dan, going back to what you said earlier: Since we haven't started yet, our opinions aren't worth very much.

Maybe when we're both experienced Nei Dan practitioners, we can speak about it experientially instead of hypothetically. As it is, I can only speak to the theory!

Just read 'Gardens of the Moon'! Very excited to keep this one going. My 3 favorite fantasy series, possibly in order, are: The Dresden Files (ongoing) The Wheel of Time Stormlight Archive (ongoing)

Fair enough! To bring this back on topic for the OP, I think its safe to say that no authorities on Yuan Qi development have posted in this thread yet, though there have been some named schools mentioned that teach these methods to advanced students.

Agreed I would say you are making presumptions, but that's ok. This is a pretty complex topic, and it sounds like you have access to a method that works for you already, anyways.

I can't, because I'm not at this stage yet. I thought you were replying to Creation, who was talking about filling the Dan Tien. Sure. There's lots of ways to improve energy sensitivity and develop Yi, and I'm sure Daogong is one effective method, considering the positive reputation of its practitioners.

If people do it, and it works, then what else needs to be said for authenticity? There's some information on this in his public bio. The methods he teachers come from his teacher within Dragon Gate, but he personally studies with a few people. The books go into detail about the basics. The online program goes much deeper, and then his in-person lessons go deeper still. He seems really concerned about safety - and the implications of giving people methods they're not ready for. I seem to remember that this is the Russian schools take on the foundations, and definitely that school has a different method than Damo, but could you be more specific than 'preliminary method for balancing'? His standing and sitting postures as described in the book are 'neutral' postures, and wouldn't put anyone 'out of balance' in any way I can think of (unless they're combined with other methods, maybe) Yeah in the few years I've studied with him I think it's safe to say under 10% of what's public is shown in the books. They're rich in theory but give only the safest and most basic of methods, because that's not really the modality for delivering complex methods.

IMO pre-heaven stuff only comes through alchemy. That isn't to say all the good habits you're doing won't have an effect - it sounds like you're concerned with consolidating your Jing and improving your body's efficiency, which is great! For all but the most sheltered among us, it seems to take years to replenish the natural levels of post-heaven Qi/Jing (which hour lifestyle habits will assist, as would returning to Qigong)

Yeah he doesn't use that method for assisting LDT activation any more, as far as I know. When I met him the first time, he did a couple things I haven't seen since. I think he keeps that business to his senior students now. From what I remember him saying, there's basically a safer way to get the lower field activation. And about the 'odd skills', I think he said it was attracting the wrong crowd?

Depends on who's teaching you. For me there's a lot of crossover in principles between Yang Style (Huang Shyan Sheng line) and Nei Gong for a while. I know Bruce Frantzis teaches Wu style alongside his Qigong.

Not a Sifu, but this video (short as it was, and most likely a part of a larger program) shows elements of #s 2 and 5 from that list. Sinking in the Kua (which, looking at his YouTube channel, he's gone into detail about in another video) will help consolidate the Yin field, and the hand movements are there to help shape it. Yang Qi doesn't come out of the hands, but by opening Laogong as he instructs in the video - the Qi inside is influenced to 'shape the sphere'. Checking out his website, it looks like he trained in South America and then China under some names I'm not familiar with. Definitely comparable to Damo's method, but possibly from a different line

His approach is pretty simplified but for a free video method covering foundational Dan Tien work it's as good as I've seen

life is short, join a cult. Actually though, it's really good that you're taking your decision so seriously. In my OPINION, since you've got a lifetime of study ahead of you in Qigong/Neigong/Alchemy/IMAs/Daoism (if you choose to take the arts as far as they can go), you might as well jump in somewhere that feels good and have fun, but keep looking around too. When you get sucked in to a system, you'll know, and then you're screwed! (Because a good system with a good teacher will slowly absorb all of your spare time until it's all you want to do anymore [I used to have hobbies 😅]) If I was you, I'd double check on here that whatever system you're into has a few key boxes ticked (i.e. they start with the physical body, the teachers are good people with skills, and so are the senior students) and then if you become disinterested, don't worry too much about moving on. Most learning is done online these days, anyways, so there's an even lower commitment needed to test out the waters.

Hey! You're just starting to meditate?

Right on! Qigong with principles is the best exercise that I know of (though IMAs with principles are really good too). Given that all that science has measured from Qigong without principles (or without having dug the channels, as freeform said) are things like: "Qigong is good for balance." "Qigong may improve circulation and lymphatic flow" It seems like you'd almost be better off taking a brisk walk! 😭

Oh. That's too bad! I was becoming fond of the analogy lol. I'm sure (or rather I hope) that freeform will come and bail me out before too long