Wilhelm

I wouldn't go that far. Lying implies intention, and if AI has that then we've got another set of problems 😅

Sorry - big bump of old thread! I've been thinking about this post for weeks now. What are the necessary prerequisites to approach this kind of work? If your Nei Gong/Taiji practice has naturally evolved to the point where you're absorbing into the body at such a granular level (which I don't think I'm at yet FWIW) is it already safe to do this?

Since GPT uses the whole of the internet as its 'training data', I imagine it's pulling directly from those websites you mentioned to form its response.

Yeah this is a good example. @Shadow_self showed me this one, and I've seen it from another practitioner as well. Sounds like it's an established modern method for determining your 'charge'. Demo starts at 3:00 https://youtu.be/0b37uRuHpeI

Pretty remarkable stuff. Looks like I might have to get the paid version to unlock the deepest mysteries though: 🤔

Great job with the prompts!

Cool book . Thanks!

"Almost like a rave through a war zone... everyone was gathered together in a place most people would run a way from" - 9:15 in the first video I like to party as much as the next fellow, but... damn

Excellent topic - the sociological nature of cults. Your OP seems to focus on one or two elements of it, so I hope my thoughts were related to your key points. Narrowing down cult behavior to spiritually-oriented groups, I think the two quotes above describe well enough the most common division between esoteric (intense, dedicated study into mystery) and exoteric (casual, social unity through fundamental principles) groups. I would agree with the author's implication that the former is way more effective at achieving the ultimate spiritual aims, but that social groups (such as Daobums, but also the public facing function any major Religion) provide a useful function for those who don't hold the ultimate goal of their system with the intensity needed to pursue those goals effectively. He then finishes with highlighting secrecy as a strong indicator of a good group, which could be true - but I've never found any that were expressively secretive so couldn't comment (though there's plenty that include the ambience of mystery in their marketing). Good point. If I understand your main point correctly - you would see it as an improvement for people to advise beginners not just seek out teachers, but teachers with strong traits of social responsibility?

Oops. My dad still gives me shit about this. English is in a multi-decade bear market, it seems You mean this in the sense that the rainbow body isn't "meteorological and optical phenomenon that is caused by reflection, refraction and dispersion of light in water droplets resulting in a spectrum of light appearing in the sky - Wikipedia"?

Oh. Yeah I didn't see what a green cheesed moon had to do with the physical experience of Qi 🤷 but if the googly eyes meant you'd like to agree to disagree on this one then fair enough

I tried a couple times to start one, but you just gave me the googly eyes and left! btw this is all off topic and I'm friggin telling the mods

I'm not sure that particular abstraction is useful here, sir. If I had said to 'man on the street' - "Qi is the bridge between the physical and the non-physical, which can be experienced through practice" then I would expect them to equate it with such an abstraction, but we're all practitioners of Qi-based arts here (you guys being more experienced than me). No further argument! I am outclassed in philosophy Since I haven't seen the fellow I study under since COVID the practice is basically a continuous experiment. As to the reality of 'Qi influencing the physical body' that happened really early with the experience of Zifagong, and then later with Qi mobilization through the body's tissues. Maybe a couple months of Taiji training that emphasizes Song and Ting could accomplish the latter, and depending on one's energetic sensitivity and emotional makeup Zifagong can be kicked off within the space of a weekend workshop - especially if there's people in the room who've been through it already, as there seems to be some sort of empathetic reaction. In terms of an experiment that can be observed and measured by an external party, I'm going to be encouraged to attempt a rather basic one later this year - I think the same one Freeform had talked about doing in a recent thread, which I can pm you about but its not my IP so I don't feel right discussing it openly. And the general theory underpinning the practice is "Qi, when built correctly, will exert a greater influence over the physical world" with my own experience being mostly limited to the fascial system (which even in the abstract is a logical progression - being the system most directly linked to the nervous system where all of us first have Qi sensations) Edit: humbug, the googly eyed reaction is never a good sign

If the next line is -The silly skeptic: Ok then they don't exist Then I'd agree that both parties of the conversation have become unreasonable.

While that's not exactly what I was intending I can appreciate how it might be read that way, as well as the value of such a discussion. You're right - that's the most direct answer I've seen so far. Would it fair to sum it up as 'everything is internal'? I'm sure you know my bias towards fantastic claims as alluded to in the post, and so my criticism of the view presented above should be taken with my bias in mind. Basically - if a large portion of our training is in building Qi, and Qi is said to be the 'bridge' between the physical and non-physical worlds, why is it ridiculous to assume Qi could affect the physical world (in the form of visibly and objectively demonstrable phenomena)? We're certainly not visualizing our practice here (you and I specifically, I mean) so are we simply affecting our nervous system in an unobservable way? Sharing my own view - I am under the assumption (based on limited experience) that a degree of density and thickness is required in the Qi before it can affect the physical world beyond subtle nervous system sensations. This happens most immediately subjectively in the fascia (i.e. through Zifagong) but once a degree of 'storage' is obtained in the LDT then its safer to make demonstrations external (but I don't see any reason they would need to other than demonstration of someone's skill). But if the Qi you've built isn't thick enough to push into the fascia then of course demonstrations like the above would seem fantastical and unbelievable. I think we're discussing it reasonably right now... We have differing beliefs around the topic, but so long as those beliefs aren't taken as objective truth then why wouldn't the conversation stay reasonable?

Ok 🙏

Sure, I think I can understand where you're coming from. The connotation is meant to respect the lineage. I wouldn't call myself Army if I simulated basic training in my garage, even if it was an accurate simulation. So while I appreciate the desire for sameness if Mo Pai doesn't choose to associate with your group then it would feel disrespectful for me to equate the two.

I can see why it would seem that way, but I think there was an error in translation here: I was responding to Barnaby who was making a joke about visualization, and I was saying I don't think they're created/visualized but I wanted to hear what you and Taoist Texts and Freeform thought. Just a miscommunication. Yes I really like learning about Dan Dao, but I don't think I've said anything about my practice yet. What it is that you think I do?

Were saying the same thing again 😅 I think the translation didn't work very well here. I'm sure I have plenty of other misunderstandings though. The system I practice is obviously very different from Dan Dao. I think you are very skilled and I appreciate you explaining everything in detail but to answer your question I'm happy with what I'm learning and not looking to add new methods right now.

That's an impressive jump from #2 to #3! How does someone in Temple style Tai Chi know they've found the De?

Hmmm... I wonder if the gang would agree with such a notion. If they did, it would imply direct causation as opposed to a spontaneous occurrence from maintaining the correct conditions/prerequisites, which would be interesting.

I would have thought this came up there at least once... I think the stance taken by the three people discussing the phenomena is that they occur naturally as a consequence of ones development, they aren't formed by mental action (and in every definition of visualization I just checked there was an implication of mental action)

Sorry friend, that was supposed to be funny not insulting. I respect anyone with intensity and dedication to their practice, and I know these are common traits in the western 'Mo Pai' group

Pretty much any exercise where there's something to 'do' would fit the bill.