Wilhelm

Is this also sometimes called the conversion of Qi to Shen? I don't know! He is a kind person who I believe to be a skilled practitioner, and I look forward to reading his answer.

Then what you are calling the transfer method my teacher calls using 'forceful intention' or just 'intention', with the recommended solution being to relax the intention until the Qi moves on its own accord. Freeform will have his own way of expressing it but I think it's not overstepping to say this is similar to his method. I look forward to reading more about how you practice Shen

I'm sorry you subjectively feel that way 😂🙏 All clear on post-heaven/pre-heaven (acquired/congenital) but there's another layer to this game...

In any event I am very happy to be understanding you better today. I think everyone including the administrator is happy about this, so we are all asking you questions quickly so maybe that's a lot for you to do quickly, but if you get a chance could you talk more about what you called 'stubborn emptiness'? You said this is the trap experienced practitioners of the transfer method fall into, and I've heard you use the term elsewhere but it didn't translate very clearly so I would like to know how you think about it.

Thanks for continuing to explain! If I understand your message correctly then I am quite happy, as I was also taught not to grasp onto the acquired thoughts! But the term you added doesn't translate very clearly. Could you say more about what you mean by stubborn emptiness?

Yeah the Daoist teacher I study with relates mind to Xin, a process quite separate from consciousness . I assume Mind is translated to something more profound in your tradition, meaning were describing different processes Yeah but if you define truth as translated Truth and I define truth as translated Apples then we're not really talking about the same thing. (This is a dumb joke)

I think this is another tower of Babel moment. From what I gathered, 'acquired mind' was a term used to describe the process that self-perpetuates from gathering these objects and reinforcing its own existence With consciousness being something else. Could be the terms translate from different concepts in Vedanta.

All this disagreement and trouble but the whole time we were thinking the same thing 😭 I guess this is how the tower of Babel fell

It'd be real nice if all these months of disagreement were based on an understanding of who was and wasn't using intention to guide the process... I think Awaken also disagrees with a lot of what I was taught were prerequisites (i.e. building LDT) but its nice to be understanding her better in any event. Interesting observation about experienced practitioners becoming unable to cross over acquired consciousness, as well. Makes me wonder which systems she had exposure to, and what their error was.

I was taught a variation of the ten precepts found in the Dunhuang Manuscripts, but a less strict version all around (moderation of intoxicants vs abstinence, avoiding sexual misconduct vs abstinence etc.)

Oh ok. My mistake

nvm I was mistaken (also I think I'm blocked so not sure why I'm still editing this lol)

Which goalposts do you mean? I was hoping next we could make the discussion a bit more specific

Ok. I apologize for mischaracterizing your practice. I was mistaken. You have a lot of articles and I have not read many of them. An important part of my practice is trying to be kind to everyone all the time, and it's not going very well today!

I honestly wouldn't mind the insults if the assessment was correct. So far I've been told incorrect things about myself and told they were bad. Well if that's not what I'm doing then I've got nothing to feel bad about - so no reason to listen to this person!

Ok thanks, I will. Do you claim to be an Arhat as defined in the Agama Sutra? I've read you saying not to chase specific methods. Is sitting in the grass and allowing the energy to move you not a specific method? Indeed I might be too poor to understand. No, of course not No, of course not. A silly question. We agree! That wasn't hard. Why didn't you ask more about what people are doing before making assumptions? How would you like it if I said "Oh, that's Awaken. She just sits in the grass and lets the energy move her." How limiting a statement would that be? Of course that's not indicative of what you do, even if maybe it forms a part of what you do. This is the confusion I'm having when you assume people only practice lower belly breathing. Ok thanks, I will.

The main discussion in this thread has been that there is many interpretations of the 'classic definition' of Samadhi, as well as Arhatship. So I believe it is extremely relevant to know what you interpret the 'classic definition' to mean. I appreciate that you claim authority on this subject, but we have talked about others who have claimed authority (such as Trungpa) so it would help to have some way to differentiate your claims from their claims. I have read your thread (as I'm sure many others have) called 'The reason why a person who only has qi in his lower abdomen can't understand the WuZenPian' and it seems you are misunderstanding what myself and many others are practicing. Although breathing into the lower abdomen is in a sense a part of the practice, there are many other parts, and you haven't written anything to show that lower belly breathing is always incorrect (the alternatives seem to be shallow chest breathing or having no awareness or regulation of the breath) - so I for one haven't seen any reason from your words to change what I'm doing.

This would depend on your definition for Samadhi. Are you an Arhat?

Thank you for your answer. I am not sure if it was a poor translation, but it reads to me as if you are saying "Once you attain a certain level of skill, you can determine someone else's strength in concentration just by reading the words they write - or read what is written about them." (Because I am assuming you read ABOUT Trungpa as opposed to reading his book) To me this seems a ridiculous proposition, but it could simply be that my level is too low to understand why. Can you really discern the concentration abilities of everyone who's writing you read on the internet? If I had shown you some text created by artificial intelligence, would you be able to discern its concentration abilities as well? And without precepts, or Sila training, how can you say you're pursuing the Buddha's Threefold Training of Sila, Samadhi, and Prajna. Meditation is obviously key, but it is only part of the training. Thank you again. If I ever seem to have attained Arhatship and find myself on thedaobums.com the first thing I will do is immediately disbelieve my attainment!

I am not fond of Mr. Trungpa or his legacy either, but I also have two questions about your analysis. How can someone's ability in Samadhi be discerned without interacting with them? Also, if life experience has nothing to do with qualifications - how is one supposed to perfect their Sila (morality training, as part of the Threefold Training)? Could not a teacher skilled in Samadhi but devoid of Sila be equally as dangerous? To be clear - I'm speaking in generalities and don't know anything about Mr. Trungpa other than the story of his life and the name of the school he left behind.

I was also too direct. I'd like to talk about this, but I'll move it to your PPD

Sorry, I don't know what we're talking about. Let me sit on my ass for a couple hours and get back to you

🎵 If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice 🎵

This is me at the moment. If only 'Sit and Forget' were a targeted process - I'd love to forget logging on this morning!

Edit: Off topic - will put on PPD